Statesman Speaks at Origins
By
87____,
Posted on: 2005-07-04 17:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Issue x.. City of Hermits?
Seriously, this is a bad idea. I tried the game the pure way(storeless). It didn't work. It was horrible. It was the worst time of my life. I don't think I will ever have a more horrible time playing this game.
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Issue x.. City of Hermits?
Seriously, this is a bad idea. I tried the game the pure way(storeless). It didn't work. It was horrible. It was the worst time of my life. I don't think I will ever have a more horrible time playing this game.
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Can you explain why? You sound like Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds when he has all the human ash over him.
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Ahem...
YOU DO NOT NEED STAMINA. The "requirement" of Stamina is simply in your head. The Necessity of Stamina has been greatly exagerated.
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I don't agree with this. Some builds need it to actually be able to function - Dark Armor, Regeneration, Ice Armor all come immediately to mind. You can run without it, but you'll be slotting more end redux than other enhancements.
Also, I think that endurance costs are manageable, but onerous. If they want to nerf stamina, they really need to reduce end costs practically across the board.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
If you are forced to go to contacts then you will need to clear them ASAP. Sadly teams are built on a rather self centered basis. Most pick up groups have a leader that insist on only doing their own missions. Even if you team with friends who divide things fairly, chances are that the contact doesn't sell to you quick enough. You can gain XP suprisingly fast even from a halfway decent team.
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If you are forced to go to contacts then you will need to clear them ASAP. Sadly teams are built on a rather self centered basis. Most pick up groups have a leader that insist on only doing their own missions. Even if you team with friends who divide things fairly, chances are that the contact doesn't sell to you quick enough. You can gain XP suprisingly fast even from a halfway decent team.
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Read that, Statesman.
Now only if we could get Tom Cruise to back us up...
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Thanks for the Notes Butler! Some interesting stuff there, but like many of the other posters, I don't understand the hate towards the NPC shops. They serve a purpose and they work pretty well to me.
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<shrug>
Sounds vaguely like other comments States has made, most recently at GenCon -- where he's alluded to his belief that higher-end enhancements (read: SOs) are substantially more widely available than originally intended.
What really are the alternatives for players?
1) Increased dependence on drops
2) Increased trading -- anyone remember early Request?
3) Greater reliance on Contacts for enhancements, consistent with general trends towards encouraging storyarc- and mission-oriented play.
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4) More reliance on loot, less bothering with the game for me.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Yeah.. All in all it sounds like Statesman wants to make make enhancments "special", but all he will succede in doing is making them annoy as hell.
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Well, it worked. I'm already annoyed. Enhancements as they stand now are a pain to deal with. At lower levels, it's trying to get all of them you need. At upper levels, it's replacing them all every five levels early on, and if you really care that much, upgrading them every level in the late 30s/40s.
It's not doom, but it sounds like some serious reduction in quality of life. Perhaps it'd be better to drop them entirely and find some other way to handle this mechanic. All this stuff will do is emphasize enhancements as loot.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
indeed. having to rely on contacts for enhancements would be a nightmare, especially considering they charge more for them to boot.
...
that reminds me ....
*paints a bullseye on miss kitty, and hangs a sign on the ropes that says 'geko suxxors' and hides behind a regen scrapper ....*
FREE COOKIES!!!! just ask the kitty !!!
At this point I am inclined to say that, if I had my choice, I would do away with enhancements alltogether. I would replace it with a points system of sorts.
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It's not doom, but it sounds like some serious reduction in quality of life. Perhaps it'd be better to drop them entirely and find some other way to handle this mechanic. All this stuff will do is emphasize enhancements as loot.
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I hope your wrong about this Kali, otherwise we'll have to give more thought to whether or not ol' Jack really has taken a Shining to lewt.
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If you are forced to go to contacts then you will need to clear them ASAP. Sadly teams are built on a rather self centered basis. Most pick up groups have a leader that insist on only doing their own missions. Even if you team with friends who divide things fairly, chances are that the contact doesn't sell to you quick enough. You can gain XP suprisingly fast even from a halfway decent team.
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My last three characters were teamed regularly with several other players. I think one of them unlocked one contact in one level range that could sell non-power 10 SOs. I don't think any of the other players did much better. We'd also need a better sense of which contacts sell what, which we currently do not have. I can usually guess on my main by calling them, but even so.
I don't know, this just strikes me as a horrible idea.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Thanks for the Notes Butler! Some interesting stuff there, but like many of the other posters, I don't understand the hate towards the NPC shops. They serve a purpose and they work pretty well to me.
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<shrug>
Sounds vaguely like other comments States has made, most recently at GenCon -- where he's alluded to his belief that higher-end enhancements (read: SOs) are substantially more widely available than originally intended.
What really are the alternatives for players?
1) Increased dependence on drops
2) Increased trading -- anyone remember early Request?
3) Greater reliance on Contacts for enhancements, consistent with general trends towards encouraging storyarc- and mission-oriented play.
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4) More reliance on loot, less bothering with the game for me.
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Yeah this seriously goes against the whole "No Loot!" concept this game had for awhile.
Hell, its a huge backlash, moreso cause theres no player economy to suppliment the drops.
So, you know what's going to happen?
Anyone with a high level is simply going to find the contact they can buy the right level enhancements from and mule them to their lowbie. I sure as hell will. I don't care how tedious it is, it's still better then running higher level missions with DOs and trainings cause you can't get the right SOs.
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indeed. having to rely on contacts for enhancements would be a nightmare, especially considering they charge more for them to boot.
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Also, currently, you can't sell to contacts.
So you pay more for your enhancements, and you get less influence over time.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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*paints a bullseye on miss kitty, and hangs a sign on the ropes that says 'geko suxxors' and hides behind a regen scrapper ....*
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::Notices she is targeted.. then hid behind::
You do know my main is a regen.. right?
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Yeah this seriously goes against the whole "No Loot!" concept this game had for awhile.
Hell, its a huge backlash, moreso cause theres no player economy to suppliment the drops.
So, you know what's going to happen?
Anyone with a high level is simply going to find the contact they can buy the right level enhancements from and mule them to their lowbie. I sure as hell will. I don't care how tedious it is, it's still better then running higher level missions with DOs and trainings cause you can't get the right SOs.
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Forgot, combine this stuff with the cost for building and renting a base...
Maybe I should start exemping my upper level characters to hit a billion influence before things get crazy. I know I can buy all origins of enhancements in all level ranges on my main, after all.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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At this point I am inclined to say that, if I had my choice, I would do away with enhancements alltogether. I would replace it with a points system of sorts.
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but then what would we do with all of our influence? bases?
charity? rebuild boomtown? send cookie bribes to geko to lay off our tankers?
as it is now. enhancements (while amusing) are simply the only influence sink we have. and the only way of modifying our powers in any direction whatsoever.
i do like the ability to change it up from time to time though. playing golf with hellions in Atlas has taught me that much.
Not if they add more Ghost Falcon-like contacts in the game. You can sell at him and General Hammond, not to mention the level 30 SO stores.
Simply put: this sounds like something he WANTS to do, but can't. The wording of it "If he had a chance, etc" sounds like he hates stores, but other devs or people in power don't want him to touch it.
But even if the stores do disappear, it's not like we don't have Power 10 issues even with them. The Power 10 system needs to be done away with and the drop system would need to be revised. And its the very fact that so much would have to change if those stores were deleted from the game that I think is keeping Statesman from doing it.
In other words: Statesman might hate the stores. But that doesn't mean Geko, Positron, Pohsyb, or another dev hasn't stepped up and smacked him for suggesting they remove them. So please don't call doom until we get a final redname response or it's up on test.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Yeah this seriously goes against the whole "No Loot!" concept this game had for awhile.
Hell, its a huge backlash, moreso cause theres no player economy to suppliment the drops.
So, you know what's going to happen?
Anyone with a high level is simply going to find the contact they can buy the right level enhancements from and mule them to their lowbie. I sure as hell will. I don't care how tedious it is, it's still better then running higher level missions with DOs and trainings cause you can't get the right SOs.
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Forgot, combine this stuff with the cost for building and renting a base...
Maybe I should start exemping my upper level characters to hit a billion influence before things get crazy. I know I can buy all origins of enhancements in all level ranges on my main, after all.
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All I was really getting at was, this is again, another blow to the casual gamer while mearly an annoyance to the "powergamer" (i use that term loosly, cause its really anyone with a lot of inf.).
Powergamers will find away around it and continue to fund and pamper their alts (nothing wrong with that, please don't take it that way!) while the casual will be scrounging for drops and scrapping together inf at the inflated contact prices.
It hurts nobody but the casual player...as usual.
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At this point I am inclined to say that, if I had my choice, I would do away with enhancements alltogether. I would replace it with a points system of sorts.
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but then what would we do with all of our influence? bases?
charity? rebuild boomtown? send cookie bribes to geko to lay off our tankers?
as it is now. enhancements (while amusing) are simply the only influence sink we have. and the only way of modifying our powers in any direction whatsoever.
i do like the ability to change it up from time to time though. playing golf with hellions in Atlas has taught me that much.
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I honestly would not mind giving up enhancements entirely and just getting the ability to go to an NPC to arrange my power focus, even if it cost influence. Just make it scale upward as you spend more, to a point, and slots determine how much potential. It'd be more flexible, remove the loot aspect entirely, and remove the granularity of going from training to DO to SO.
It's not going to happen at this point, though.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
At this point I am not dissing the devs in general. I hadn't thought of what the others might think, but MY hate is directed at the man himself. He is the one that said it afterall.. not the other devs. You still raise a very good point though. I am betting he is outvoted. At least I hope he is.
It isn't like it isn't their(the devs) fault anyway, or whoever designed the current system. Contacts only selling limited enhancements(both in origin and type). Drops are totaly out of wack. What did they expect us to do? I hate to repeat myself, but I tried it the way Statesman invisioned. It doesn't work at all. Worse part was I did it on my controller. Untill I finaly gave in and just went to a store my controller literaly could not solo on heroic. I just wasn't getting the kind of things I needed. I don't know how other ATs would handle it, but I don't want to know. I would much rather have a root canal than play like that again.
Hmm, a lot of this does not look good. I wonder if Statesman is loosing his perspective in what he consider fun. A lot of the changes only propose a harder (more challenging according to states) game when it comes to lvl and get good stuff for your character.
Some of you might think this is great but not me. A game where you can play for hours and not feel like you are making progress is not fun for me. Several changes in the past has already turned away from the casual gamer to adress "problems" that hardcore gamers have.
Here are some comments:
Desperation: Sounds somewhat interesting but as several mentioned already, poor defenders who will be constantly harrased by blasters for not healing the "right" way.
Also a big problem for blasters in the high end game is the alpha strike from mobs that can send a blaster to the hospital directly. I cannot see how desperation will solve that problem.
Stores: This is the kind of **** I am talking about. I can understand why he says the things he says but it would be devastating for the casual gamer who just logs on to do some missions and have fun.
First of all the chaos and wait when everyone in the team has to go to all corners of Paragon just to sell and buy ench. between missions. Second a hardcore gamer will get what he wants from drops in a reasonable time but for the casual gamer...think not. With luck he/she will have the main powers slotted before 50 while hardcore gamers will set up there own stores selling all the left over. Not my kind of game.
Nerfed: While I do agree with States that one should not grab aggro from 50 even minions and have a easy time I do hope that he do the right thing, which is not to lower defense and resistance caps. Instead go with the very good suggestion to make resistance more like defense and make it scale with the mob lvl.
Yesterday I played rugged missions with a full team. I played a stone tank and for the most part I had to tank perhaps 20 enemies +1 (guessing 14 minions, 4 lt and 2 bosses). With the support of my team I could do this and not visit the hospital and I had a great time (as did the rest of the team). This is fun yeat challenging and you make good progress (XP). I hope States consider theese kind of scenarios.
Stamina: In the missions described above we had an emp. defender with RA which meant very little downtime. All in the team agreed that it made it so much more fun not having to rest between every little battle and instead focus on tactics when needed. Little downtime = FUN! I "rest" my case 
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All I was really getting at was, this is again, another blow to the casual gamer while mearly an annoyance to the "powergamer" (i use that term loosly, cause its really anyone with a lot of inf.).
Powergamers will find away around it and continue to fund and pamper their alts (nothing wrong with that, please don't take it that way!) while the casual will be scrounging for drops and scrapping together inf at the inflated contact prices.
It hurts nobody but the casual player...as usual.
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Yes, I agree with that. I was just adding a point I forgot to make.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Might as well voice in.
Blasters: Desperation sounds like an interesting idea. I really hope it's just some addition they came up with and not their "fix" for Blasters.
Nerfs: Hmm, sounds like once the changes hit test, the boards will hear a [censored] storm like never before. I wonder how close Cryptic's "Yes, I beat it!" situation is to one that player's will accept?
Stamina: They can come up with all sorts of ideas and nerfs that no one's thought of, but haven't progressed past "can't get rid of Stamina, can't give it away for free" after how many months of looking at it? Nerf it and make an inherent part. Make part of it into an accolade. Increase the amount of end we get each level. Don't just sigh and talk about how you wish the game could've been!
Skills: Well I guess it's good to hear the universities will at least have some use.
Post 50:Ya know, I wonder what their expectation is on how long they keep customers? Do they plan on continuously drumming up lots of new customers as old ones leave after having their fill? Are they hoping for a customer base with a large number having years of experience?
Misc: Um, how sure are you about thinking that States' is looking to simply move to an all contact store system? Shifting from a building to a person, like in the 30s is one thing, but as others have pointed out, some changes might not be pretty.
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They only avoid them because the shadow shard is so poorly designed, I mean really there is no reason to go there unless you're a tourist or want to do insanely long task forces.
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Also, people avoid the tougher villains when easier villains are available.
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Yep, I eat Nemesis for breakfast. Captain Crunch scratches the roof of my mouth.