Statesman Speaks at Origins
By
87____,
Posted on: 2005-07-04 17:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
You mean harrassed by team members for healing the blaster, and/or harassed by the blaster for listening to the team?
But yeah, as the rest of us said: we die from single volleys, we don't get whittled down.
Stores: MASSIVE changes WILL be required for this to be viable. Firstly, either drops or villains themselves would need some changes, so that you're not completely gimped for having 2-3 trainings in a power just because you still can't get another Damage SO for yourself [magic not a problem, but techs drop rather rarely in the late 30's... though nemesis drops'em ok...]
Sounds more like states was agreeing with us on stamina though. the main problem is that its REQUIRED by many, and then endurance is never ever a problem anymore by most.
The fact that you can't get through half a fight without running completely out without it in numerous builds is a problem, and the fact that many others will never bottom out with it is also a problem.
Most likely it'll get fixed by no longer being necessary: this means lower costs so we can actually get by without it well enough.
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It's not going to happen at this point, though.
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Oh why the hell not?
I am tired of the "We are to far in the game" crap. If they are going to ruin the quality of life for our characters to "fix" a bad system I say drastic steps should be taken to put in a new one.
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Quoting zzMDude:
"They won't waste time doing more good than they have to. But messing the game up is always on the plate."
Horribly cynical...but lately I'm starting to agree with him.
Kali - sounds like an interesting idea. could work. and if it was done right it could also limit our slotting so we wouldn't waste slots either. i'm not a number cruncher but somethings should limit themselves so your not wasting your resources if theres a hard cap to its abilities. ie: 6 slotting superspeed for running speed could NOT happen, ever.
miss kitty - regen scrapper? kitty ... claws ... rope ... oh dear ...
*runs away*
EVERYONE - perspective: I think we're all getting a little carried away here (myself included). all we really know is states made a comment, made a face and then we got a hold of the info. maybe the only reason he had a disgusted look on his face was from a case of bad gas.
as for this Desperation system for Blasters, all it'll really do is ENCOURAGE blasters to try and tank, because they'll have one more state of being, in addition to healthy and dead. they'll have crippled uber! and instead of running around screamming "HEAL!" they'll scream WHEN healed "[censored]?!?! "
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miss kitty - regen scrapper? kitty ... claws ... rope ... oh dear ...
*runs away*
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Not claws.. no..
::Kicks him off a roof::
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Now only if we could get Tom Cruise to back us up...
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I sincerely agree. Getting rid of stores would suck.
*runs around yelling at the top of his lungs*
Come see my new movie: War of the Worlds! Now in theaters! Yaaarrrggghhhh! Read more about the origin of Statesman and Lord Recluse in the upcoming novel Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard! Waaaagghhh!
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Not if they add more Ghost Falcon-like contacts in the game. You can sell at him and General Hammond, not to mention the level 30 SO stores.
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Which is a reasonable assumption, but the information isn't indicative of this so far.
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Simply put: this sounds like something he WANTS to do, but can't. The wording of it "If he had a chance, etc" sounds like he hates stores, but other devs or people in power don't want him to touch it.
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Hold on to your seats folks, he HATES the stores in Talos and IP. As soon as he is able he will get rid of them. I dont know the man, I didnt even meet him but through the whole con I never saw a look of utter disgust on his face except when he was talking about the stores. I think he wants a purely contact enhancement purchase system.
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But even if the stores do disappear, it's not like we don't have Power 10 issues even with them. The Power 10 system needs to be done away with and the drop system would need to be revised. And its the very fact that so much would have to change if those stores were deleted from the game that I think is keeping Statesman from doing it.
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Well, I hope you're right. What he's reported as saying sounds like it's something that he intends to make happen, rather than something that he thinks would be nice to do.
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In other words: Statesman might hate the stores. But that doesn't mean Geko, Positron, Pohsyb, or another dev hasn't stepped up and smacked him for suggesting they remove them. So please don't call doom until we get a final redname response or it's up on test.
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Again, I hope you're right. From this, the statement about flashback, and comments about stamina, it sounds like Statesman is becoming increasingly against quality of life being a design consideration.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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It's not going to happen at this point, though.
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Oh why the hell not?
I am tired of the "We are to far in the game" crap. If they are going to ruin the quality of life for our characters to "fix" a bad system I say drastic steps should be taken to put in a new one.
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I agree with you, but I expect the devs will not. If there's no time for wings...
Removing the stores would not drastically change the game, though. Changing enhancements into a point-based system you could upgrade at contacts would be very nice, but require a redesign that the devs are unlikely to commit to.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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For years, I was anti-stamina and anti-hasten (I still don't see ANY instances where Hasten is "needed". Ever), but recently, I've begun to see how some genuinely need Stamina.
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You've been anti-Stamina and anti-Hasten for years now? In a game that's only been out about 14 months?
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I exaggerated a little to demonstrate my point on how much I dislike how people tell newbies they NEED Hasten in order to function at all. All it does is create cookie-cutters.
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Reason everyone goes and buys'em though is that you never get the right ones.
You end up at the end of a level 39 mission with 3 L36 DO's, one SO -probably a runspeed or defense-debuff of whatever you're not (WHY do freakshow drop mutations and occasionally magic? why do crey drop magic also? why does EVEYRONE DROP BLOODY MAGIC?), and a whole bunch of trainings, most of which you dumped to make room...
At the same time though, enemies are scaled to the assumption that you've got 6 SO's [or 6HO's starting at 40] in everything.
So we'd need the drops to change, or the villains to change, otherwise we're in trouble if we can't buy what we need.
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QFE. Just deleting the stores WILL cause problems, because drops are too random.
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Now only if we could get Tom Cruise to back us up...
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I sincerely agree. Getting rid of stores would suck.
*runs around yelling at the top of his lungs*
Come see my new movie: War of the Worlds! Now in theaters! Yaaarrrggghhhh! Read more about the origin of Statesman and Lord Recluse in the upcoming novel Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard! Waaaagghhh!
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ah crap, another runner....
*picks up and loads his rifle*
hmmm at this range i'll need a little boost in damage.
*smashes face into wall beside him repeatedly*
ah yeah better than build up
*passes out*
After a year and there still coming to this point: Nerfs?
Why?
What couldn't you do or wouldn't do a year ago that your just starting to get to now?
I had a talk with my friend today about AC (Asherons Call 1) and why there still isn't a game that has yet to rival it in pure fun aspect.
I refuse to play AC 1 in general because it's addicting. It's the game you play and as you play it slowly hooks you in. There is so much to do, so many different things, and places to go.
So what is wrong with CoH?
First off you guys haven't come up with a coherent plan of what is balanced. You have yet to realize that you have certain issues and haven't sought to fix them (certain AT's need Stamina and Hasten) but have made them worse (Invuln/SS is a prime example of this problem). You have taken fun aspects and really ripped the core of fun away from it (Travel Suppresion). Instead you say "Can't give them inherent Stamina it'll make them overpowered." instead of saying "Look why are all these people selecting the Fitness line and how can we change it.".
I won't get into the end game content issue because there isn't one. You have to have something to have an issue with it and right now "There is no end game content."
It's been 3 years sence I left AC 1 and I can feel it slowly calling me back. 3 years of me searching for a game that could rival it's intensity, challange, ciontent, and fun. After all this there has yet to be a game that rise to the challange. So take a look Devs because it's coming close and there is a game out there that does offer fun, a challange, without endless nerfs.
I hope you begin to offer bigger, better, more real quick.
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I exaggerated a little to demonstrate my point on how much I dislike how people tell newbies they NEED Hasten in order to function at all. All it does is create cookie-cutters.
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That's not how it works.
A friend of mine got into the game, had fun, got frustrated with downtime, and asked me how to mitigate it. I told him the best low-level character for downtime purposes was a regen scrapper - quick recovery would keep him from waiting for end to recover between fights - and he had a great time. He asked how people deal with it throughout the game, and I told him honestly that they don't, they get and slot Stamina. Did I tell him he needed it? No, but it mitigates his biggest problem with the game. I don't think he's unique.
As for perma-hasten, well, I think people get it and find out that it speeds up play. I think the idea that there's a huge consensus that you need it really isn't true.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Well since States didn't come right out and say that stores are gone we can all relax a bit.
But if they do remove stores I can a huge shift in the haves and have nots in this game. All my characters are mutants. This has nothing to do with concepts and everything to do with the fact that most of the mutie stores are right by the trams. Given that I'm all mutie, I have every mutie contact worked up to full enhancement sales, so this won't effect me at all. While other heroes are struggling to get decent drops, fighting with teams to do their missions to unlock contact sales, I'll be sitting pretty. Selling won't be a problem at all though, since I doubt the devs would remove the Freedom Corp stores that no one but me seems to sell enahncements at.
What really worries me is that this would cause a player driven economy to spring up over night. How much would those lovely endrec SOs go for on the open market? This is an SO that I've only ever gotten once as a drop in thousands of hours of playing.
Also I can see teams getting harder to live with since the members that have higher lvls to provide SOs won't feel like doing missions to work up other's contacts. I would be willing to help out other players, but I can't honestly say how long I would do this. At some point I'll want to do my missions as well, and depending on my character I may not be happy with sticking to Heroic difficulty to ensure no one on the team out levels the contact they're trying to work up.
Power changes and stuff like that I can live with, but something like this, even with adjusted drops, could be very very bad.
"If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?"
- Abraham Lincoln
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Desperation sounds cool, but we'd best be doing our best damage at about 25%. Anything lower than that -- and even that's a stretch -- and we're pushing minion death on a team.
He thinks people need Defenders to cap out in various statistics. Uh, not to rain on your parade States, but Blasters can cap Damage on their own about every 90 seconds or so with SOs and Build Up, and that's keeping Aim in reserve -- another 66% buff. We'd better have that 500% cap if that's gonna work out. Tanks and Defenders can hit that cap as well. Tanks can cap out their Resistance on just the might of their -reduced- SOs. Defense and Regeneration have no cap. If they want to make Defenders useful in that sense again, they're gonna have to take another look at things.
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He is not saying people need defenders to reach the caps.
he IS saying people SHOULD need defenders to reach the caps.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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This game caters to new MMO players (roughly 40% of the player base is new to MMOrpgers).
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I hope i'm just reading that wrong...or something was lost in translation.....I'm reading that as: don't expect much 50+ content, because we're catering to the young'uns. Replay as a new AT !!! It's fun to kill Frostfire 15 times while doing your main character, then starting over again with BRAND NEW powers and killing Frostfire another random 17 times.
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I think what he is giving is the number of players that have NEVER played an MMO before. I know several with 30+ heroes that played an MMO before.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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...I'm in it for the Chicks.
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Thats your pickup line?
LiquidX: "Hey baby, I got 8000 posts all for you."
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It's better then my last one.
"Hey baby, do you like Italian? 'Cuz you've got Angel Hair!"
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I hope no one wonders how you got the time to make 8000 posts
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Here's the thing, though:
Statesman only said the stores in Talos and IP.
Either he just listed Talos and IP as examples, or he means that those stores in the Talos and IP are the only stores he wants to see gone. It's no surprise that those cater to the level 20-30 crowd: a crowd that already has contacts in Striga and (I'd assume) Croatoa that sell enhancements.
Maybe he just wants to see people cut back on going all the way back to Talos to sell. It could be a change as simple as that. That he's been teaming with too many high level heroes on whatever server he plays on that keep holding up his pick-up group because they have to go back to Talos to sell.
Either way, the levels this would directly affect are levels that have multiple contacts that sell all enhancements. The stores don't sell anything other than Power 10 SOs, so it wouldn't be that big a loss if they were removed and would mean more people would have to sell at Ghost Falcon and the SO contacts.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
I only sell in a select few zones myself. The stores aren't exactly easy to find.
Yeah, I only seem to sell in Talos and IP at this point myself, and even then only the Mutant and Science stores in IP.
The stores in Steel are pretty easy to find if you know where they are, but no one seems to flock to them really quickly. The stores in Skyway seem to be all over the place.
But, like I said, he only mentioned Talos and IP. So I definitely don't think this is the big "OMG ENHANCEMENT NERF, GAME IS DOOMED" warning we are making it out to be.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Here's the thing, though:
Statesman only said the stores in Talos and IP.
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There's another quote about making Ghost Falcon a chalk outline... I think he used them as examples.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Well as far as I know you cannot sell ench. in Striga right now and unless you are magic you cannot buy any usefull either (at least from pebbles who is the first you friend with).
THe contact at the docks sells natruals. Tech to I think.
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THe contact at the docks sells natruals. Tech to I think.
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Yep, but that would mean you are prob. high 20 before friending with him (Long Jack I suppose). So any magic would already be slotted while natural and tech have to do all Long Jacks missions as well and as for science and mutation...
I actually sat here and read this whole thread while on vacation and paying to do so at an internet cafe. After all of that, I need to make a few comments.
First, a lot of people are saying that desperation sounds like a good idea, but will not help blasters at the higher levels. I'd say most people are missing the point. Desperation shows that the devs are finally addressing the blaster needs, and, after months of waiting, they are going to take the time to "fix" post-30 shooters. Now, desperation as described sounds like it will still cause problems, but I expect it to get tweaked to actually being useful sometime before going live. I just see the fact that devs are addressing the complaints as a positive.
Second, the "nerfs". My main, a 43 earth/storm/ice controller, solos invincible with little effort, but that is mainly because INV still spawns tiny groups. I can't tell you the number of times I've sat there looking at a group of 2 mobs, one orange and one red, wondering where the challenge would come from. I'd fix invincible by upping the spawn count (as of now the number of mobs is set at heroic level, just higher cons) and increasing the number of lts. and bosses. Yes, I understand that in many ways this means that tanks and scrappers just level faster. However, I just don't care. The challenge I want is by fighting more enemies, constantly using more than 3 powers at a time, and giving a huge sigh of relief when I actually achieve an objective. Keeping the same low spawns but making us take longer against them will not give me the "I did it" feeling. Instead, I'll just have to use my big 3 powers for a longer period of time.
This, of course, brings us to the quote about not fighting more than 50 enemies at a time. Obviously, this is aimed directly at tankers and, to some extent, scrappers. I just hope they change the enemies instead of "nerfing" the power sets. I'd like to see the devs add a % chance for enemies to knock off toggles based on the number of mobs focusing on one character. For instance, a tanker fighting 5 or less would have a 0% chance of having to rely on passives while a tank fighting 50 might have a 1 in 4 shot of losing armors. I haven't fiddled with the numbers or anything, so I know that would take some work. However, this method would make herding a challenge for the entire group, as, without a doubt, a tanker pulling too many is going to get dizzy. At the same time, no power has actually been reduced in effectiveness within the power sets. Sounds like a much better decision than nerfing powers to me.
Stamina. I take it that he's planning on just leaving it alone. Fine with me.
The stores. I'm not sure of his own thinking behind his statement, so I don't care to speculate on what the one sentence he uttered means. I just hope any major change in store usage comes with a considerable upside such as more frequent useful drops, and, hopefully, that our contact line fills in for that NPC regardless of who's mission it is. Frankly, if 7 people are helping an NPC then all 7 should go up in her esteem--not just the one with the mission.
That's it. I'll be back on my computer next Monday.
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This amuses me because I think in terms of killing Dr. Vahzilok 17 times, and Frostfire is a new thing to do.
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I did the killing Vahz 17 times last summer 
I did the Frostfire killing 17 times this February on an alt who I was exploring new material with...since my main was too big.
I think the whole issue there is this: Repetitive missions for everyone. I heard recently he wants to change it by origin...different origins get different stories. That'd go a long way to help the repetitious feel.
I REALLY don't mind killing Frostfire a few times....then having to whack him myself...then helping others kill him as I'm moving on to Attilla....it's just this: When I make a new alt, I don't wanna do that all over again.....and again. And again.
New material is a weak point of CoH. I've been retired since December on my main waiting for more material. Been once in awhile dabblin' with my Grav/FF alt to see Striga/Hollows. Just made it to the Ernesto Hess TF....which *coughs* if it works out, i'm gonna get my main into and leave my Grav/FF without the badge My main needs the badge ......of course this'll happen once they fix auto exemplaring.
And my Alt is only 26....unless there's more to Striga after Ernesto Hess, he's in the perfect: 25 to 35 range to explore Croata afterwards....might do that, get my main his badges....and ONCE they add badges for Shadow Shard TF in Issue 5 (heard that was coming) do those TFs...even tho i'll grind my teeth. (yes, i'm a badge-a-holic.)
About hasten however....I see the point of having it. I generally suffer til around level 30 without it (since it's a pain without having it 6 slotted with SOs....at lower lvls, I never know WHEN I should click it. So I avoid the power til late when I have slots to slot it with SOs.)
I shall use the example of my Electric Blaster buddy here. He said, when he was without hasten...he would open up with "Zapp" his snipe....then he'd use his lvl 1 "fast recharge, low damage" power....then his lvl 2 "medium damage, slower recharge".....and then he'd be out of ranged attacks being an Electric Blaster. He wouldn't use Zapp in battle, too long animation that can be interrupted....and it was lvl 1 blast....lvl 2 blast.....*wait for a few seconds til lvl 1 blast recharges*
He said, he began using "Ball of Lightning" EVEN if there was only one mob left...Stamina WASN'T the issue, it was the fact he was STANDING THERE without anything recharged. Hasten now brings his powers back fast....including unique and powerful blasts/buffs....like Thunderous Blast. Who doesn't want a super blast to recharge as fast as possible ?
As my ice controller at lower levels when i'd solo (waaaaaaaay back last year)....I found that usually the speed of my single hold would determine if I could kill some mobs or not. Being my BEST damage, I'd kill things with "Block of Ice"....and if i could freeze the thing faster than it's regen I won eventually.
OR, if there were multiple bosses-- having a faster Block of Ice means you get them under control that much faster (yeah, Ice Slick...but back then Ice Slick wasn't as good as it is today...oranges would walk over the whole slick without falling just to whack ya.)
The faster my hold comes back, the better I can control a boss. I remember a certain battle in the sewers....even remember the door was in AP.....it was Freakshow. One of the weird names in l337 speak. Was it "Teh Roxxorz?" can't remember. Anyway: he was the last mob in the mission....I could NOT kill him because my HOLD would literally come back a SPLIT second after he unthawed (2 holds to hold a boss.....the first one wore off for a SPLIT second...you didn't even see him moving, but it was JUST long enough for him to activate his Regen aura....errr, whatever regen power it was, I dunno.)
If I had a hold that lasted a few seconds longer...or came back a few seconds quicker, i'da won. And as I evolved and moved towards 50, the quicker/longer lasting Block of Ice was what I moved forward towards...made a big difference.
Well, that's my opinion of hasten. Personally, I think the game SHOULD be redone where STAMINA/REGEN/RUN/JUMP are inherient.....same with Hasten. Eating 2 outta 4 of our power pools for no brainer powers....it's just stupid (i know, people go without...I was on that train too, til I respeced on test when respecs came out....and played thru the respec trail...testing it.....over 15 some times. When I saw what Hasten did, got it on live...didn't look back.)
Served Cold: 50 Ice/Storm/Ice
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
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It's not going to happen at this point, though.
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Oh why the hell not?
I am tired of the "We are to far in the game" crap. If they are going to ruin the quality of life for our characters to "fix" a bad system I say drastic steps should be taken to put in a new one.