[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have an electric blaster. I've never felt the lack board folks talk about. I've always thought that particular stigma was just one of those evolved pieces of Conventional Board Wisdom (TM) that doesn't match all that closely to reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
Look closer.
The only two sets missing a third single target are Elec and AR. AR makes the trade off by getting some nice AoE attacks. Elec's AE attacks are only better than Energy and Ice... both of which have some groovy attacks. The only really attractive thing about the set is Short Circuit, and to get any use out of it you have to totally gimp your AE damage.
Elec Primary is kind of middle of the road. It can AE, but it's not good at it. It can zap a single guy, but it's not real good at it. The only really good thing is the drain, and if you want to play with that then you're probably better off making a Defender.
[/ QUOTE ]
Elec deals ALL energy damage. AR deals lethal/smsh, energy deals half S/L and half energy. Elec does more effective damage because it's damage type is by far less resisted across all viliian types. AT first glance on paper, it doesn't look as good. In practice it's a powerhouse.
[ QUOTE ]
Look closer.
The only two sets missing a third single target are Elec and AR. AR makes the trade off by getting some nice AoE attacks. Elec's AE attacks are only better than Energy and Ice... both of which have some groovy attacks. The only really attractive thing about the set is Short Circuit, and to get any use out of it you have to totally gimp your AE damage.
Elec Primary is kind of middle of the road. It can AE, but it's not good at it. It can zap a single guy, but it's not real good at it. The only really good thing is the drain, and if you want to play with that then you're probably better off making a Defender.
[/ QUOTE ]
** shrug **
Like I said, this is precisely the sort of cautionary post I see ad nauseam on the board, but I have never felt the lack in play, and all of the electric blasters and defenders in my SG loves the voltage. This was one of my earliest lessons in the limits of forum orthodoxy. 
[ QUOTE ]
Elec deals ALL energy damage. AR deals lethal/smsh, energy deals half S/L and half energy. Elec does more effective damage because it's damage type is by far less resisted across all viliian types. AT first glance on paper, it doesn't look as good. In practice it's a powerhouse
[/ QUOTE ]
Fire is all Fire damage (surprisingly) and one of AR's biggest hitters is Flame Thrower. Fire damage isn't usually any more resisted than Energy. In my experience plenty of stuff resists energy damage aswell...
If Elec was a powerhouse, you'd see lots of guides for it and it's be FotM. Instead everyone spends their time talking about Fire, Energy, AR and Ice. There's more attention on the /Elec secondary than there is on the Elec/ primary. One of the things people talk about on the Blaster boards when they recommend Elec/ is that you'll be unique and special. It's not a commen set to take.
And that's because there's nothing special there. There's no third blast and there's no exceptional AE. It's just sort of in the middle and instead gets a funky ghetto pet and a Hold. The pet is widely disliked and everyone has access to a hold power at 41. There's just nothing to make you look at it and say "Wow!"
*shrug* to each their own. With some of the secondaries electric can really shine. I've come up with some rather nasty strategies with my elec blaster. Personally, I enjoy the utility of it, but then that's mostly because blasters lack utility almost all together. I'm not into straight up damage, and thus the reason why my Elec blaster is the only one of the many many blasters I've started who's made it past 20.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Clear Mind: Please make the animation as short as Heal Other.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's a good point. But my complaint has always been that Sleep, which lasts longer than most other mezzes, is broken by any heal. All the other mezzes seem to break before the Empath can figure out holds/disorients are going on. There are only two ways Clear Mind is really needed. First pre-emptively, although I sometimes use it this way, it's really annoying to constantly keep up while performing all your other empath duties. Second is to un-disorient an awakened/bounced back teammate. But as for using it to clear someone's mind in general, like the name implies, it doesn't really happen, since most people aren't clear about whether they're held or slept.
[ QUOTE ]
Regeneration Aura: make it more 'useful' i guess. i kinda dont see the point of having this, esp at later levels.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a perception thing... plus with I4, Empaths sorta got nerfed along with Regen Scrappers, as far as my understanding. Isn't there a regen cap, now? Anyway, on most characters, you're not gonna hit it. Anywy, if there is something like a team split, and one group is weaker than the other, but people in both groups need healing, regen aura will keep the eaker team alive while you to run bacak and forth, also allowing you to accidentally agro a mob or two without getting killed en route from one part of your team to the other.
[ QUOTE ]
Adrenalin Boost: umm, so it only gives one person unlimited endurance?... why not just go all out since its the last empath power... give the player invincibility (like the one scrappers have) as well as unlimited end with fort and cm to boost. After all, we waited all these levels for that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, it's more than unlimitted endurance. It's also +regen, and +recharge. Think of it like a heavily slotted Accelerated Metabolism on one character, without the mez protect. Put Adren Boost, Recovery Aura, and Regeneration Aura on any character, even a Blaster, and you've got your own mini Regen Scrapper on your team.
[/ QUOTE ]
Cool. Thanks for that. I never really saw it that way. But for the AB comment... im suggesting is why not just make it UBER, you know... add the +def, +dmg (on everything), +acc, and cm benefits along with the stuff that came along with it.
Another one, I might suggest for my RAD secondary... and I might be suggesting this out of pure selfish and envious reasons is how bout a pet? Some goo creature sliming along with me during a fight would be a nice one to have. Dark, Kin, Storm have pets... RAD should have too 
Kinetics has a pet? You mean besides the melee types they group with?
My bad, I thought Singularity belonged to KIN defs. 
I'm such a nOOb 
LOL, the ever lingering combination of grav/kin. I made a 12 (a while ago) on Guardian
No, kinetics don't get pets. I personally don't consider tornados pets, either, but that's also I guess a matter of perception
-----------------
All that said, I think I wanna explain why I've said some of the things I've said (it's not just because one of my two "mains" is a empath Defender) and what I think the devs would think by reading this forum:
Idea #1 - "Defenders don't deal enough damage to make effective blasters, and if they don't attack they're just buff bots." - The devs will read this as "Defenders want their secondary set damage to do as much Blaster primaries," or at least more damage than they do now. I partially disagree with this premise, because let's face it, a group of 3 rad/rads can outdamage any group of 3 blasters out there, and even so, Defenders are primarily meant to Defend and only do damage as a back up (just like Blasters are only meant to use their secondaries as backup).
Idea #2 - "Such and such ability isn't as control/mez effective as we need it." - The devs will read that like it is, but I doubt they'll do anything. From what I understand, controllers weren't given blaster secondaries because the devs thought it was too powerful. I could have been misled, but consider when you're saying this that Controllers would get even more Controller abilities (not necessarily a bad thing), but Defenders would end up being more diverse because they'd have decent enough control powers AND the ability to blast.
Idea #3 - "Increase Defender buffs/debuffs by fixing such and such Defender ability." - Well, I personally am happy with my Defender buffs, but I could see certain primaries needing a bit more work on that for maximum team effectiveness.
Idea #4 - "Differentiate Defenders from Controllers/Blasters by making the Defenders' primaries do stuff the Controllers' secondaries won't do." - Somewhat of a good idea. Recharge boosts for example should not be the same for both. But will the devs read this as "Increase Defender buff/debuff ratio compared to Controllers," by increasing Defender buffs or decreasing Controller buffs? IMO, the latter would make the most sense, because some of the buffs are a bit over the top (my example, for instance, of buffing a full party too high a level for me to get exp), meaning you could actually survive with a Controller, but would prefer a Defender, much like what people do at lower levels.
Idea #5 - "The reason Defenders aren't needed is because every other AT gets EPPs and enough slots to replace Defender buffs." - The devs aren't about to unslot high levels or remove EPPs, so they'll read this as "Nerf the <bleep!> out of every other AT so Defenders are wanted again." I on the other hand, don't think this is the reason we're not needed. In fact, I think we are needed, it's just we are perceived as not being needed, because of complaints of using Defenders as "buff bots" and "leeches," when in fact teams run much better, as in faster and safer, with us than they run without us.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd really like an option that would put a visible "blocked" or "$damage reduced" on peoples screens in a unique color. Then they'll realize that the defender *are* doing their job, even when the green numbers aren't flying above their heads.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oooh. I LIKE that idea.
RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE, O REASON FOR AT NERFS...
[ QUOTE ]
Every Archetype should be extremely happy when the Defender provides a resistance or defense buff...
[/ QUOTE ]
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
Bah. I think you're doing Statesman a great injustice.
[ QUOTE ]
Because of all the Archetypes, we're happiest with them [Defenders]. There are certainly issues with individual sets and powers - and those we're always looking at. Defenders, however, don't have any overarching problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
This problem outlined here by States was effectively tackled and resolved by allowing Controllers to approach Blaster level damage while still letting them use many Defender Primaries at 100% (or near) effectiveness despite these being Secondaries for them. Add to that the touted statement that only Controllers should be able to (reliably) mez Lts or above, and the fact that Blasters now have more HP than Defenders (really just a cosmetical point, but one that always grates on me), and I think States did solid work.
The sad thing is, I'll still play Defenders, because they're just the most versatile AT in the end. Alas also the least efficient, potentially barring SR Scrappers whom I've never played but see go down faster than a [censored] a lot.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Thank you for reminding us the reason for the future nerfdom.
I am so glad that someone was able to recover this thread. i thought i had saved it to my favorites, but i guess not. lets see what States has to say now...
-The Elite-[50's]Va'Leria�X'hian�Stormy Monday�Radical Burn�Mo'Mentum�Heat-Source�Professor Blaze
-World Wide Evil, Inc-[50s]Soulfire�Perma.Frost�Kold Soul�Foxphyre�Pitch-Black�Corrupt Fusion�Cassanova Brown�Tyler Thorn�Iron Siren�Solaura�Fortunauta Wade�Look'Alike�Arctic Engineer
[ QUOTE ]
Every Archetype should be extremely happy when the Defender provides a resistance or defense buff...
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, but when its a little south of required that a peticular AT has that buff to do their job, thats a problem. (im certainly not saying that the buff IS required for a certain AT to do there job, but its darned close to it)
I've never actually seen a resaonable explantion for why defenders can't use some of their primary buffs on themselves. I seriously can't see it making them overpowered, esepcially in the case of the defensive buffs.
[ QUOTE ]
I've never actually seen a resaonable explantion for why defenders can't use some of their primary buffs on themselves. I seriously can't see it making them overpowered, esepcially in the case of the defensive buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Two reasons: The Devs would then have to 1) think up a new name for "Heal Other" and 2) Speed Boost would make Siphon Speed irrelevent.
The same way Hasten makes SiphonSpeed irrelevant?
Would be nice to have Clear Mind or Fortitude be able to target myself. With Healing Aura, Regeneration Aura and Recovery Aura being a
.Aura. We are still covered by that.
It just sucks being the only Empathy toon on a team and getting mezzed. Even at level 39, it still happens. Fortunately, a badge hungry Earth/Storm controller I usually run with picked up the medicine pool and can remove those mezz effects.
[ QUOTE ]
I've never actually seen a resaonable explantion for why defenders can't use some of their primary buffs on themselves. I seriously can't see it making them overpowered, esepcially in the case of the defensive buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Take another look at empathy and see if you can still tell me that. Run the numbers. I have. More gating would be required than just letting people self target.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've never actually seen a resaonable explantion for why defenders can't use some of their primary buffs on themselves. I seriously can't see it making them overpowered, esepcially in the case of the defensive buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Take another look at empathy and see if you can still tell me that. Run the numbers. I have. More gating would be required than just letting people self target.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I could just cast CM on myself I think I would have a heart attack. It would actually let me play in the arena without the required 20 Break Frees and phase shift ::drool::
Cheers!
to say nothing of absorb pain self. Free healing much?
[ QUOTE ]
to say nothing of absorb pain self. Free healing much?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't have absorb pain. Being unable to heal yourself in the arena is death for a defender.
Cheers!
..wha...?
you lost me.
you said 'imagine if CM' and then I was agreeing saying 'imagine if AP!' and now you're saying you didn't take the power and defenders need to heal self?
I'm confused.
My 2 cents, late in the thread:
Defenders (other than empaths) are perceived as not needed because what their powers do isn't telegraphed very well.
Take Darkest Night for instance. The benefit is that the badguys miss more. But its easy for someone to think that its due to luck. Or that its due to a change in some enhancement of their own. Or they may not even notice it at all. By contrast, Empaths get big green numbers.
If you could bring hard numbers like DEF & RES for yourself and your target, then people would appreciate what Defenders do for them. Otherwise they can easily attribute the benefits of a Defender on luck, good players on the team, or good teamwork.
There have been many times I know I made a huge difference in staving off damage and faceplants. People notice play went smoother than expected, but they don't attribute it to my Defender. They say 'This is a good team'.
Worst choice about defenders has been to make them unable to use on them their single target buff. This single mistake make them unable to "defend" themselves, they are only able to "defends" others. I find really annoying to get good buffs i cannot even use on me. I am wondering what makes those buffs so "overpowered" that defenders can only use them on others. I really think
allowing def to buffs themselves would make them really happy and increase their survivablility and soloability a lot.
Also another thing is so annoying for buffers. The buff last so little time. You just keep spamming the buff button if you want to keep your group buffed properly.
For example as a kinetic def, i am using 2 buff all the time, speed boost (whose duration has been increased already from 1 min to a whooping 2min) and ID who still last 1 min only and is must have in the 30+ unless you only team with tanker/scrapper.
If i am in a team with 4 members max i can buff and then i have some time to do other things, like fs, psy wail etc...
but as soon as team size increase it is no more possible and buffing become annoying (understand really NOT fun).
SO buff should last at least 5 min, i mean all def buff at least, even if power should be taken case by case so they do not become overpowerfull. Increase end cost to cast them to keep them in line with current end cost, i dont care, but INCREASE BUFF TIME so i can do other things than just keep spamming speed boost and ID on 8 man team (who are the most fun team in mission otherwise ).