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Guilty as charged (though technically I have a level 4). Now that you mentioned it, I checked out FF's powers and they mostly seem to be more controller like than Defender, with the exception of a few buffs.... Not sure what's up with that, especially since they probably don't operate on the level of Controllers.... No wonder most of the Defender type FFs train stuff like Medicine.... Yeah, it looks like Force Field could be reworked a little to fit in more buff/debuff/heals, maybe get rid of Force Bolt, even. But I say this, again, not having really played a FF character.
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You'll have to pry Force Bolt from my dying grasp. Its the most useful power in the set after the big three by far. You can, however, have the upper four powers in the set and I'd barely miss 'em.
There's nothing wrong with a Defender set being Controller'y. Look at Dark Miasma. The problem with FF isn't that it gets control powers instead of buff/debuffs. The problem is that FF's "control" powers don't actually control much of anything.
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It's really not that impressive. It just SEEMS impressive because you're used to your attacks sucking all the time.
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No it seems impressive because on top of causing all of that damage, I can also keep my entire team healed, buffed, unmezzed, and full on endurance. To me, that's well worth the difference in damage. If anything blasters have the short end of the stick because all that they have is damage.
Both defenders and blaster sets should be reworked to keep them alive longer. For blasters I envision a secondary composed of some scrapper melee and resistance/defense powers instead of just lots of melee damage which never gets used and defenders just as able to solo as all the other ATs as well as keep themselves as buffed and alive as the rest of the team. But it's not my game to design. 
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No it seems impressive because on top of causing all of that damage, I can also keep my entire team healed, buffed, unmezzed, and full on endurance. To me, that's well worth the difference in damage. If anything blasters have the short end of the stick because all that they have is damage.
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If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that. You're spending all your endurance, getting totally detoggled, and taking on several seconds of no or much-reduced end recovery on an attack that on its unbuffed own is lucky it's able to knock off +1 minions.
The difference in damage is the difference between breaking the board and not breaking the board in karate. When you break the board, it doesn't hurt much. When you don't break the board, the board breaks your hand.
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Both defenders and blaster sets should be reworked to keep them alive longer.
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I agree with this.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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No it seems impressive because on top of causing all of that damage, I can also keep my entire team healed, buffed, unmezzed, and full on endurance. To me, that's well worth the difference in damage. If anything blasters have the short end of the stick because all that they have is damage.
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If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that. You're spending all your endurance, getting totally detoggled, and taking on several seconds of no or much-reduced end recovery on an attack that on its unbuffed own is lucky it's able to knock off +1 minions.
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Natural endurance rates are suppressed, powers adding to it aren't. I may suffer a detoggling when I pull out Thunderous Blast, but I merely have to hit Conserve Power and I can pretty quickly continue as if nothing had occurred while gaining endurance for being unable to burn it quickly enough.
True, that is in the post-40 world, but then again so is much of the existence of the level 38 powers.
Under construction
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If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that.
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Most of that is done beforehand(the buffing). Getting a group herded together tightly enough to pop off fulcrum shift and use nuke/nova etc is very possible. It's probably easier for my SG and I because we tend to run in defender/controller heavy teams, but it is possible. Yes there's a stun/delay/end regen penalty, but a damage capped nuke along with the versatility any defender brings to a team is amazing and worth the damage difference.
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If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that.
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Most of that is done beforehand(the buffing). Getting a group herded together tightly enough to pop off fulcrum shift and use nuke/nova etc is very possible. It's probably easier for my SG and I because we tend to run in defender/controller heavy teams, but it is possible. Yes there's a stun/delay/end regen penalty, but a damage capped nuke along with the versatility any defender brings to a team is amazing and worth the damage difference.
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Not every defender set is a buff-only set (aka forcefield). In fact, forcefield and empathy are the only sets that aren't primarily debuff sets defensively speaking. Kinetics can go in here too I guess, since they don't have any toggle debuffs and are mostly a non-defensive buff set (-damage and -speed debuffs along with ID are their "defense" powers).
So, really, "if you're a kinetic, empathy, or FF defender in the 40+ game you can use your ultimate blast and with the help of a kinetic defender or controller do the full 65% of what a blaster could have with the same power on his lonesome." 
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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Guilty as charged (though technically I have a level 4). Now that you mentioned it, I checked out FF's powers and they mostly seem to be more controller like than Defender, with the exception of a few buffs.... Not sure what's up with that, especially since they probably don't operate on the level of Controllers.... No wonder most of the Defender type FFs train stuff like Medicine.... Yeah, it looks like Force Field could be reworked a little to fit in more buff/debuff/heals, maybe get rid of Force Bolt, even. But I say this, again, not having really played a FF character.
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You'll have to pry Force Bolt from my dying grasp. Its the most useful power in the set after the big three by far. You can, however, have the upper four powers in the set and I'd barely miss 'em.
There's nothing wrong with a Defender set being Controller'y. Look at Dark Miasma. The problem with FF isn't that it gets control powers instead of buff/debuffs. The problem is that FF's "control" powers don't actually control much of anything.
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Thank you for replying to this in calm and very exact terms... so I didn't have to do it in angry words. Words I would most likely Regret. Regret that I spazzed on some poor guy/gal who has no real idea about Force field's So Called 'Control' methods... but not in what I would have had to say about Force Field's so called control.
It's about as much Control pal as energy blaster withought any damage, and some poor Grav controler or Dark defender who were foolish enough to take Black hole or Grav's largely untouched phase power (actualy those two are even worse then Detention's current form since they randomise which villians you hit... At the very least det bubble is just one target and as such can be used at times... how much more daily, hourly, minute by minute and in a fight seconds by seconds use would you see out of Det bubble were it a Mag 3 hold by comparison? A hell of a lot more... That's bloody what.
Now that being said let's hit the crap hoel force field powers and say I was a Dev, I'd finaly give Force field It's bloody due.
Here's some changes I'd make.
If you didn't need a friendly target for Repulsion bomb and every knock back in the set applied a Mag 2 disorient... then and ONLY then could you begin to call it any form of control.... Before yo usay "Thats over powered" Look what the other sets Get. Rad get's 2 forms of Mag 3 or 2 Hold's in the Primary.... Dark gets a fast charging mag 3 hold and pets that also cycle thru and use this hold. Emps at least can actualy defend the Team VS all the types of mez resist while FF persists in having this double edged sword Sleep mez and PSI damage hole (one or the other there would be gone if I had my way) Storm has a Mag 2 autohit disorient.. .which granted is damn dangerous to use and in my opion should be a mag 3 to make up for that. the things that can one or 2 shot you after after it's use are exactly the things left awake and ready to kick your [censored] if you can't back it up with a secondary effect form a blast... and what options are there for our Storm fenders for that... one AOE from Dark and one single from Rad... If your not using Dark or Rad then no stack there... (No Soup for you) Is a little disorient and targeting of foes instead of friends too much to ask for for Force field to couple with at least the same blast types storm can try to do?
And Detention bubble as I have stated many times should be a freakin mag 3 hold. I know.. .I know some of you love it.... but honestly and trust me here once you have a mag 3 hold you can actualy attack through It's so much more of a differece in how well you can defend a team and yourself that you wont miss it... and honestly DE emanators Die nice and fast now, It's not realy needed as a cover anymore.
Next... that pig's ear Force Bubble. Anything touching the Force bubble should have it's defence and damage resistance reduced.. .ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING actualy penatrating it Is greatly slowed (movement only not power recharge) and debuffed up the wazoo for it's Damage resist and Defence... my word... If theyre gonna push through that massively endruance draining bubble at least make them work for it. Personal opinion of course.
I also belive both Repel and repulsion field should have a Leathal/Smash resist to account for any physical attack having to get past this field to strike the FF'r or Kinetic's user. I mean realy... Freak Tank swipes for full damage even though he was tossed back on his tookus several yards away? Please.... Pull the other one! 
Dispersion. Give it fair and square sleep resist or give it defence to PSI... Both is so utterly unfair in the late game as to be extreemly ... well annoying is not the word even... disheartening is much more like it. It sertainly made me want to rush my FF/Dark to 50 instead of actualy bothering with doing his own late game content unless other's were willing to help.. .as it was they wanted their missions done more then I wanted his.. .so thats what I did with him. Mostly... I little hanging out on wolf hunts and bridging helped too... i'm sorry if you think that's wrong or if it strike you as cheesy, but the character went from fairly fun and playble despite disapointments in the late powers to OMG this just "Sucks rocks"... All I was was a buff Bott despite extrodinarily well slotted blasts because If I dared to shoot in those missions he'd get soaked for damage (keep in mind the App's didn't go live till after I had him at 50... perhaps they would have made me have more fun... but realy the set on it's own should have done that at least as well aas it did in the 20's and 30's.)
Ok ok, I did kinda go off on another tangent here didn't I? But I just cannot help it. FF just sucked up so much of my time... and I so want it to be good.. too pasionate about it for my own good I guess. why else would I spend one hour writting a post that i bet only a few folks even read?... But the alt's I'm playing now (cause I understand what this game actualy wants out of a toon for it to succeed and excel) are just so much more fun to play it's nuts. It just boggles my mind how anyone can look at Force field and Say "Everything is fine here." Just can't fathom it....
Oh and something I'd add to empathy. 
shocked? A tidge of offence actualy. The game's largest single target debuff. And it would Debuff absolutely every stat and game mechanic on the target in question. Defence, Damage resist, Accuracy, Speed and recharge speed, endurace regen etc and it would also cause DOT damage while it's active. Because honestly folks, someone/thing that can heal and help via powers like the Empath's can... I don't believe for a moment that they couldn't use their mastery of that to cause some SERIOUS, probably untold Pain as well should they CHOOSE to do so (tossing that choose to line in to prevent the 'goody toe shoes, empaths only heal' comments that suggesting they can cause Misery as well might get from some folks). I mean tell me that doesn't make sence.. .and I'l ltell you what someone with even a little medial knowledge could do to you if they so choose to.. .let alone if such a person had 'Powers'.
I also think O2 booost should be a very small AOE. My nodd to poor ol' storm... but that'll get left on def ears too.
Take care all,
Rogue Demonhunter (crazy but... in a good way.)
PS: Please excuse my complaining... somewhere in it theyre might be some good ideas.... Realy though it's my personal opinion as to waht the sets I mentioned are due... Past due.
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If you're using Thunderous Blast, shouldn't the proper comparison be to an Electrical Blaster?
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I dunno... maybe. Elec/ is considered the Psi of Blasters though... it's their worst set. Funny that it's one of the better ones for Defenders.
I figured since we were talking about massive AE damage then an AE Blaster set would be the best thing to compare it too. Both AR and Fire can match your nuke every 10 seconds or so. AR can actually do even better with Full Auto and it's crit ticks. Need to take something other than Devices for Build Up though.
Though a maxed out Kin-nuke won't do as much damage as a maxed out blaster nuke, the Kin can slot his with recharge rather than damage (since he has Fulcrum Shift). He can siphon speed to reduce the recharge too. And Transference makes the endurance drain almost a non-issue. So each time he nukes he will do less than a blaster but he can' nuke very often--much more so than a comparable blaster.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
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If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that. You're spending all your endurance, getting totally detoggled, and taking on several seconds of no or much-reduced end recovery on an attack that on its unbuffed own is lucky it's able to knock off +1 minions.
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Fulcrum Shift, Blackstar, Transference, (retoggle acrobatics if it dropped--it doesn't about half the time), continue with attacks, debuffs or heal. Downtime--maybe a second after Blackstar before I can hit transference, maybe no down time at all.
Pinnacle
Glowworm * Brrr * Lilinoe
Protector
Kid Trance * Ms. Impala * Red Helen
Virtue
Pooka Pete
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If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that. You're spending all your endurance, getting totally detoggled, and taking on several seconds of no or much-reduced end recovery on an attack that on its unbuffed own is lucky it's able to knock off +1 minions.
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Fulcrum Shift, Blackstar, Transference, (retoggle acrobatics if it dropped--it doesn't about half the time), continue with attacks, debuffs or heal. Downtime--maybe a second after Blackstar before I can hit transference, maybe no down time at all.
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For 1/6 of the primaries, and it's your primary that makes the nuke a workable tactic, not the nuke itself.
That's my point. Defenders don't just get their "defense/utility" from their primary. They get their offense potential from their primary too.
For a radiation, storm, or dark defender using the ultimate blast is a tactic with some serious drawbacks even though via your primary in combination with PBU or soul drain, you'll almost be able to do blaster damage with it.
For a forcefield or empathy defender there are fewer drawbacks even though you can't do as much damage as a rad can without another character's help.
For a kineticist there are practically no drawbacks at all and the ultimate blast can be a great weapon, but it only works that way because your primary has fulcrum shift and transference.
But in each case it's the primary of "buff/debuff/heal" that is going to dictate when, how, and how often the various powers in the secondary are going to be used... and even how they are going to be slotted.
"Experience is the mother of good judgement. Bad judgement is the father of experience."
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If you're using Thunderous Blast, shouldn't the proper comparison be to an Electrical Blaster?
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I dunno... maybe. Elec/ is considered the Psi of Blasters though... it's their worst set. Funny that it's one of the better ones for Defenders.
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I have an electric blaster. I've never felt the lack board folks talk about. I've always thought that particular stigma was just one of those evolved pieces of Conventional Board Wisdom (TM) that doesn't match all that closely to reality.
I think some people need to re-read what I said. When I said that FF abilities operate like Controller abilities, but probably not on the same level, and then followed that up by saying a lot of FFs choose to take Medicine, I wasn't saying that FF Defenders were operating on so much of a better level of controlling than Controllers that they were opting out of the FF pool!
Yes, there is something wrong with making a control focused Defender primary. The devs are obviously not gonna give it more control strength than a Controller primary, or else they would have made it a Controller primary. At least with the Storm pool, it has a lot of debuffs/buffs along with each control ability (eg, Hurricane may have repel, but it also is a mob debuffer), and I always considered that pretty control heavy for a Defender primary.
I certainly see no reason why there's not more +res in FF, since you'd expect things that end up breaking through force fields to be softened by the force field. Think of Star Trek or other sci fi shows, where with shields up, the ship gets hit and sometimes does still take damage (sometimes they don't, too), but with shields down, it blows up in one shot.
A lot of the abilities I see don't make sense role play wise or gameplay wise. So could someone who knows FF please explain to me where they came from and why they fit a Defender AT?
Detention Field I can understand, role play wise. It's more a controller ability, but it does make sense as a "Force Field." It looks like one of those abilities that either people hate or love, though, so if it were the only controlleresque ability or one of two, even, it'd make sense to have it able to "detain" all mobs, so long as they weren't AVs or Monsters.
Repulsion Bomb... I have no idea where the idea even came from. You put a force field around an ally and let it explode? I'd like to see how that works in the comics.... Besides, it's yet another Controller ability. Ok, so knockback is in a lot of sets, but here you're not really buffing your ally, you're just kncoking back the foes around it. Now, if you were to actually keep a bubble around your ally that lasted for a set time, which knocked back or knocked down enemies, it'd be a different story, because your ally would be buffed with a knockback/down power....
Force Bubble and Repulsion Field to me look like Controller powers, but it seems other Defender sets have similar powers. Which makes me wonder why these two powers aren't rolled into one power.... Hurricane does knockback, repel, and -acc, so why doesn't Force Bubble have knockback, too? Not that I like the way Hurricane works now, but it looks effectively to be a stronger Force Bubble, to me, and Force Bubble is the top tier power....
Last I'll mention is Force Bolt. Ok, so one person here seems to like it, but otherwise I've heard nothing but bad things about it. How does this belong to Force Fields, anyway? Protective shields are not weapons, so why are FF Defenders getting pseudo Blaster powers in their primary?
That's 5/9 abilities that don't really in any way fit the buff/debuff/heal theme of Defenders....
Having played a Bubble Defender since launch, I am likely as familiar with the intricacies of the ForceField set and how they play out in-game as anybody. So, one comment at a time.
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Yes, there is something wrong with making a control focused Defender primary. The devs are obviously not gonna give it more control strength than a Controller primary, or else they would have made it a Controller primary. At least with the Storm pool, it has a lot of debuffs/buffs along with each control ability (eg, Hurricane may have repel, but it also is a mob debuffer), and I always considered that pretty control heavy for a Defender primary.
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Again. Have a good strong look at Dark Miasma. It has enough pure control to make many a controller jealous. Holds. A Freakin awesome AOE Fear (and yes Virginia, Fear is real control since I3). Pets that hold! A slow. Even a near-useless AOE phase like Grav Controllers get. Tack on Dark secondary and you add AOE Immob and AOE disorient to the list. That's a pretty hefty set of "control" powers. That's a Defender that can stack more holds on a single target than any Controller short of a Grav with Singularities.
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I certainly see no reason why there's not more +res in FF, since you'd expect things that end up breaking through force fields to be softened by the force field. Think of Star Trek or other sci fi shows, where with shields up, the ship gets hit and sometimes does still take damage (sometimes they don't, too), but with shields down, it blows up in one shot.
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I've always been in favor of this - but with the new Sonic defender primary in the pipe with other-cast RES bubbles I think chances of FF getting much of this are waning rapidly.
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A lot of the abilities I see don't make sense role play wise or gameplay wise. So could someone who knows FF please explain to me where they came from and why they fit a Defender AT?
Repulsion Bomb... I have no idea where the idea even came from. You put a force field around an ally and let it explode? I'd like to see how that works in the comics.... Besides, it's yet another Controller ability. Ok, so knockback is in a lot of sets, but here you're not really buffing your ally, you're just kncoking back the foes around it. Now, if you were to actually keep a bubble around your ally that lasted for a set time, which knocked back or knocked down enemies, it'd be a different story, because your ally would be buffed with a knockback/down power....
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Heh. You will be very hard pressed to find many folks defending the current implementation of Repulsion Bomb. Whatever your take on it from a comic stance it is by far the least generally useful tool in the set from a game-mechanics standpoint.
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Force Bubble and Repulsion Field to me look like Controller powers, but it seems other Defender sets have similar powers. Which makes me wonder why these two powers aren't rolled into one power.... Hurricane does knockback, repel, and -acc, so why doesn't Force Bubble have knockback, too? Not that I like the way Hurricane works now, but it looks effectively to be a stronger Force Bubble, to me, and Force Bubble is the top tier power....
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We've all wondered what on earth is so great about the mass repel on Force Bubble that its worth being both our L32 power and the highest end-cost toggle in the game. Conceptually a big "do not enter" bubble is quite classically comic-ish. Unfortunately Force Bubble as implemented is merely a "do not enter if you are not particularly strong or heavy melee" - because Devs forbid it should keep out mobs we might actually *want* to keep out of melee with bubbled teammates.
Many of us have also wondered repeatedly what Repulsion Field is supposed to bring to a set that already has Force Bubble. The two powers are severely redundant. The only reasons to pick one or the other are specific nuances in their pattern of end use relative to the situations you may wish to use them, and the occasional advantages of KB over pure Repel.
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Last I'll mention is Force Bolt. Ok, so one person here seems to like it, but otherwise I've heard nothing but bad things about it. How does this belong to Force Fields, anyway? Protective shields are not weapons, so why are FF Defenders getting pseudo Blaster powers in their primary?
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Where on earth are you getting the idea that Force Bolt is a weapon? It does approximately one quarter the DPS of brawl. No wonder you hear bad things if anybody sane attempted to use it as a damage power. It is a control tool. Cheap, fast, reliable, high-accuracy knockback. You can keep anything not-KB resistant off its feet indefinitely simply by spamming this power. It is fantastic for positioning stragglers in debuff fields, keeping dangerous mobs off balance, etc.
With that one power two-slotted I have kept as many as three Bosses at once from doing anything at all but standing up and being knocked back down until my teammates could "arrest" them.
And if you think I am the only Bubbler who likes it...you *really* need to get out and talk to experienced Bubblers more. Just check out past FF threads in this forum. I am by no means whatsoever its sole supporter. The most common suggested alteration for it is the simple addition of a chance to disorient...making the power even more "controller-y".
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And if you think I am the only Bubbler who likes it...you *really* need to get out and talk to experienced Bubblers more.
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I like Force Bolt quite a bit as well. What a great power. Not overpowering by any means, but useful at low levels (especially) and at high levels. Nothing like clearing out the Minions and then keeping a boss on his backside for the entire rest of the battle.
One of those great little powers.
Definitely! Force bolt is my most frequently used bubble power. It's the only KB power that actually is useful. Though I do wish some of our bubbles worked more like fake nemesis bubbles than our own. Imagine if force bolt could dish out damage like the lollipops!
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Never mind the fact that Force Fielders actually have a straight-out direct damage attack in their Primary. That alone -no matter whether you like or dislike it- would lead any reasonable person to presume that they were not meant to just stand around and update their bubbles every few minutes, End allowing of course.
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Um....No. No they do not. If you are suffering under the misconception that any FF power has any use whatsoever as direct damage you are *sadly* mistaken. Force Bolt does half the damage of Brawl for twice the recharge. That's one quarter Brawl DPS... Repulsion Bomb does even less than that. That is not direct damage in any meaningful sense.
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I am not suffering from any misconceptions. Whether useful or not is not part of the point I was making. Consider it, if you will, an inverted Power Bolt or whatever. Knockback is the Primary effect, damage the Secondary.
Point is, it is a direct (damage) attack in a Defender Primary and as such evidence that being a Defender is not all about renewing bubbles and heal-spamming, by design and as opposed to what some ADD Blaster tells you. Since you don't seem to agree with that, I guess we're just from different sides of the Defender fence and leave it at that.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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If you're using Thunderous Blast, shouldn't the proper comparison be to an Electrical Blaster?
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I dunno... maybe. Elec/ is considered the Psi of Blasters though... it's their worst set. Funny that it's one of the better ones for Defenders.
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I have an electric blaster. I've never felt the lack board folks talk about. I've always thought that particular stigma was just one of those evolved pieces of Conventional Board Wisdom (TM) that doesn't match all that closely to reality.
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Agreed. My electric blaster does very very well. I've never had a problem with her. And yes, I've played other blaster sets.
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I am not suffering from any misconceptions. Whether useful or not is not part of the point I was making. Consider it, if you will, an inverted Power Bolt or whatever. Knockback is the Primary effect, damage the Secondary.
Point is, it is a direct (damage) attack in a Defender Primary and as such evidence that being a Defender is not all about renewing bubbles and heal-spamming, by design and as opposed to what some ADD Blaster tells you. Since you don't seem to agree with that, I guess we're just from different sides of the Defender fence and leave it at that.
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You read too much into my response. Just because I disagree with your evidence does not mean I disagree with your conclusion. I do not disagree in the slightest about the purpose and role of a Defender. A Defender is patently obviously intended to attack as well as defend - otherwise what is the point of our entire secondary? And I will even agree that Force Bolt is an active-use control power. Its just not by any stretch an attack.
Force Bolt does not do damage as "a secondary effect" even in the sense that defender blasts do "secondary effects". It does a token pittance of damage for the Devs only know why - but damage is in no way shape or form a meaningful function of the power. Conversely knockback is very much a useful and meaningful part of the function of a blast like Power Bolt.
Controller single-target holds do significantly more damage than Force Bolt. Many Controllers even slot their holds for damage to assist with soloing. Damage is a meaningful if secondary effect of the power. Conversely no Bubbler with any experience would ever have any reason whatsoever to slot Force Bolt for damage. *Not even Controllers* slot Force Bolt for damage.
Think of it this way. The secondary effects of Blasts matter when choosing a blast set. The knockback matters in strategic use of Power Blast - for example. But Force Bolt does damage like Freezing Rain does damage. Its not even a consideration in the use and slotting of the power.
I don't disagree with your premise - just the specific point you use as evidence does not actually support it.
I'm a little worried that making all the other powersets more balanced will make defenders less useful. Because defenders are there to cover the holes the other powersets can't.
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I have an electric blaster. I've never felt the lack board folks talk about. I've always thought that particular stigma was just one of those evolved pieces of Conventional Board Wisdom (TM) that doesn't match all that closely to reality.
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Look closer.
The only two sets missing a third single target are Elec and AR. AR makes the trade off by getting some nice AoE attacks. Elec's AE attacks are only better than Energy and Ice... both of which have some groovy attacks. The only really attractive thing about the set is Short Circuit, and to get any use out of it you have to totally gimp your AE damage.
Elec Primary is kind of middle of the road. It can AE, but it's not good at it. It can zap a single guy, but it's not real good at it. The only really good thing is the drain, and if you want to play with that then you're probably better off making a Defender.
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I'm a little worried that making all the other powersets more balanced will make defenders less useful. Because defenders are there to cover the holes the other powersets can't.
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I assume you mean archetypes, not powersets.
At the higher levels of the game, the other archetypes have less need of a defender. Defenses, APPs, Stamina, Hasten, et al. are all slotted up. Things like Speed Boost or Accelerate Metabolism, or even status protection effects, while definitely appreciated, are much less required than previously. I don't think I have cast Increase Density in about two levels, other than on my defender partner. Most other classes just don't need it any more. Other defenders here doubtless have varying experiences, and that's good! I still feel valuable in a team, but my buffs are just not as large a factor as they were in the past. A controller can use the same buffs, and even with their decreased effectiveness they are more than enough to replace me.
Just a simple question, but if you're concerned about people not 'needing' defenders, why build villains that specifically neutralize the most useful portion of a defender's primary?
I've been playing any character BUT my force field defender lately, because he CANNOT GET A TEAM. People who know how force field work won't grab you for a job against either devouring earth OR circle of thorns from 35-39, because those villain groups make those bubbles WORTHLESS.
The only powers the quartz emanators or uber-quicksand don't immediately neutralize are the detention field and the bevy of knockback powers - one of which was specifically mentinoned to be intended as 'highly situational'.
The only way I can get my force fielder on a team is if some power leveler wants me to buff his herder, and we all know how exciting THAT is.
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Never mind the fact that Force Fielders actually have a straight-out direct damage attack in their Primary. That alone -no matter whether you like or dislike it- would lead any reasonable person to presume that they were not meant to just stand around and update their bubbles every few minutes, End allowing of course.
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Wow, you've never played a forcefielder have you 
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ZOMG bubblers have force blast NERF THEM!
Now that, that is the funniest thing I've read all day. "straight out damage attack" indeed. Change it to work like Nemesis' force blast, sure. But ... oy.
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It takes me 4 seconds to animate Thunderous Blast. In that time a Fire Blaster can FireBall/FireBreath. I'll get ~37 brawls (55.556 * 0.666 = Blaster Damage) if all three ticks hit, and he'll get 29.5 brawls. That's 80% of my damage and he can do it every 10 seconds. If I get any less than 3 ticks we're doing the same damage.
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If you're using Thunderous Blast, shouldn't the proper comparison be to an Electrical Blaster?
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