Jesterman

I didn't even think one-shotting was possible in COV.

I tried it using several builds back in beta and could never cause enough damage to kill even defenders/controllers in a single shot. That's using 3-4 green SO slots in damage as well as buildup and several reds. Using buildup + 3-4 slotted AS would usually give take away 2/3's of a defender's health.

I don't pay much attention to these boards anymore and I haven't had the time I wish I had to play my stalker outside of beta, but since when (and under what circumstances) is it even possible to one-shot anything as a stalker?

Rocking Castle, thanks! I haven't been reading the forums much lately specifically because defenders were getting ignored and too many people [censored] about AS.

My mains are stalkers and defenders, so you're either the man with those two, or the man all around, either way, a huge thank you to you.

Well even really smart use of placate can't dodge an attack that I don't see coming but I can work around that. Thanks for the reply.

And especially a HUGE thank you for this [ QUOTE ]
We've reduced base To Hit from 75% to 50% for PvP purposes. This change was made to give Defense sets more effectiveness. With the ED changes, coupled with the prevalence of +To Hit buffs it was necessary.

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As a long time player of defensive sets this is the change I was waiting for!

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Other mobs can break my placate on another target. Or that a mob can attack while placate is animating, still be placated and I lose my chance for a crit.


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Any more detail on this so I can get QA to try and replicate it for me? Are there certain critters that do this, or is it a general case? Do any special circumstances need to be met?

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Sorry Castle I haven't had time to read the boards since Beta. I haven't played my spines guy so no new info on the graphics and the large spine from the palm, but this placate bug is definitely still happening.

I lose all chance to critical if someone else hits me while I'm placate hidden, additionally anyone(including the placated mob) can interrupt my placate if they get off an attack that activates during my placate animation.

Because the animation is so long, this makes it very easy to waste a placate, or generate nothing more than the aggro of one less mob for a bit.

Oh and it happens with pretty much any mob, cone attacks, long animation attacks, short animation attacks, drawing of weapons for the enemy that delay an attack, all sorts of mobs can do this. I'm surprised there's any difficulty replicating it.

It usually happens when I'm teamed and fighting LTs or bosses, something I can't one-shot, where I do an AS or bone smasher to lead off, then placate, then go for an AS. But a minion can interrupt it just as easily with a well timed attack.

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This means that every Defense buff WILL stack to some degree with a player’s defenses, regardless of his power set.


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What do you mean by "to some degree", in the interest of informed choices...

What happened to the damage debuff that was supposed to come in for ice tankers on the most recent patch?

I'm not seeing anything for CompUSA or Best Buy when I click on the links and nothing is popping up for city of villain searches on these sites...

Sweet! Well for starters force fielders don't get 55% defense they get around 18% max, the other bubbles only to other people. We get no sleep nor damage debuffs and the only way to really protect ourselves is to cut us off from helping our team and remove our mez resistance(think original hibernate but it's your job to keep people alive).

Anyway it's Friday and I'm going home, I'll post more later.

Is it safe to say that whole one reply rule and don't reply to each other's posts isn't in effect for this topic?

Just wondering before I get into it about defense...

Now that the defense/defensive set is being tweaked for ice tankers can SR scrappers and FFers get some attention or at least some feedback on why ice tanker's defense isn't ok but their defense is?

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Alone in my Invincible mission, (warehouse tileset) I clicked one of those garage door sliding doors that opened to reveal no less than 5 LT + crouching Minion pairs, all standing within about 10 feet of the first glowie.

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Not sure if you knew this or not Uberguy, but you don't have to save all of the tanks in that mission. I think I saved 3/4 and I still completed it without a catch.

What really got me was that click 8 glowies simultaneously mission. I spent 40 minutes getting a team of 8 people together just to click glowies. While one was in route a scrapper accidently clicked on it, and the "simultaneous" number went down to 7.

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In fact a force field defender often is capable of doing the most blasting. I don't find being a force field defender being boring. I find it the most opportune time to use my blasts to increase the damage output of the team.

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I guess it depends on what you mean by opportune. Efficiency just about any other AT can blast better than you and increase the damage output of the team better than you with generally less consequences and powers that personally benefit you.

And doing the most blasting isn't always a sign of something good. On my FF/Rad it took 2 neutrino bolts, 2 x-ray beams, and 1 cosmic burst slotted for damage to kill one even con minion(4-5 slotted for damage, usually with aim used prior to attack). That's hellishly slow going and the best defense in the set is reserved for the teammates.

A FFer doesn't really blast that much more than any other defender though, same with controllers(direct attack damages).

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Way to be juvenile. "I bet you can't name 3 obscure powers from a power set you don't play! That reduces the validity of your opinion!" Whatever, man.


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I was pointing out that when a player with as much time in game doesn't know what 2/3's of a set does it probably doesn't do anything useful. It wasn't an attempt to belittle you or reduce the validity of your opinion, sorry if it came off that way. Just making a point that no one knows and no one really cares.

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If 1/3 of your power set blows ask for it be fixed instead of clamoring that the Defender lines that may not be broken should be made so.

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I don't know what you're talking about in terms of defender lines, but as far as asking devs to change it I have. I've been doing it since November. I've made posts in test, general, issues and suggesitons, controller forum archetype and powers forum, and the defender forum(numerous numerous times, ask around my force field cynicism is infamous). The only response I've received, even after an incredibly civil 100+ post discussion on force fields was from a PM Statesman replied to from someone else, and THAT person posted it on the defender forum. A single sentence(that was posted at least) said something like "we've got our eye on it".

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Sorry, buck-o, but I didn't base my opinion on the lesser used powers. I based it on your "big three" and Dispersion Bubble. Yeah, all your powers should not suck. Tough Hide shouldn't suck. Self-rez power shouldn't suck.

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Indeed, but the "lesser used" powers should never comprise a majority of the powerset.

And of course the one thing that it is supposed to do, provide excellent defense, it does with exceptions that continually increase as you level up.

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If you think I don't know what I'm talking about somewhere in my posts, how about you point it out? Call me on something. Try me.

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Ok, in your reply to me you mentioned the "Welcome to" phrase 8 times in order to illustrate the that other powersets have those weaknesses. The problem is that force field has ALL of those weaknesses. Welcome to Force Fields.

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Dark can't help you attack faster.

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Doh again..


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Dark can't give you any DR against fire or cold.[ QUOTE ]


Heh that's kind of splitting hairs there, just fire and cold you say?

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Dark can't give you DR, Defense or Damage buffs that go with you wherever you are, meaning to get benefit from the Dark Defender you must go to places in the battle that the Dark Defender alone determines.

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Conceded but you also have three helpers making that area pretty damn big as well as debuffing the damage and accuracy of said foes. And where I said damage buffs/resistance debuffs I should have just said damage amplification. Dark, storm, and rad gets resistance debuffs, kin gets fulcrum shift and siphon power, emps get fort

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If you need or chose to battle foes outside those dilineated areas the Dark Defender does zilch for you.

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Other than paralyze them with a massive cone fear and hold them down with 3 pets that heal.

Sorry Chron I goofed there. But having fearsome stare to prevent the mezzing is more than any force fielder can get. I'd trade the 6 other powers besides the big 3 for just fearsome stare. Let alone fluffies, stackable resistance debuffs, pets, accuracy/damage debuffs.

It's ridiculous the amount that force fielders can't do. But because we provide YOU with enough defense to do well everything is just fine in our powerset.

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Yes, Rad and Dark do work in a team mission setting. I hotly contest any assertion that they are "better" than FF. FF may be less entertaining to play. That's an incredibly subjective assertion and I'm not going to debate it with anyone. But don't tell me that they have lower utility to the team. It's not true.

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It's far more than less entertaining, it's also incredibly less useful. We bring no innate heals and have to waste a power pool just to get aid other(an interruptible short ranged long timer heal), no endurance boosts, no accuracy buffs, no damage buffs, no crowd control other than knockback which aside from only buying 2-4 seconds is the most often resisted form of crowd control, no pets, no sleep protection, no resistance buffs, no resistance debuffs, no auras, and the coup de grace the force fielder is the WEAKEST and LEAST PROTECTED person on the team and seldom benefits from any of their own powers. On ice tankers and SR scrappers FFers do almost nothing.

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On the flip side I know what it's like to be a Blaster or a Scrapper (especially) with bubbles on. It really is god mode like 95% of the time. It ups the level of foes you can battle about +2 just by increasing your survivability. And it requires little planning or forethought.

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Again, great for you maybe, not great for the FFer. You see while you are fighting those enemies(which are by your admission at least +2 to what is normally fought(generally +2-3) with nearly capped defense the force fielder is standing there with around +40% defense against +5's and no way to increase their damage, protect themselves, heal themselves, or boost their accuracy. Phase shift is one of the most common pool powers bubblers take for just this reason.

I've played have a rad and dark defender as well as a kin and storm controller. FF is far far worse than all of them, particularly post lvl 40, but also against anything with psi, untyped, autohit damage, or toxic damage(yay 25% unenhanceable resistance) which have become much more pervasive in the game since launch. Furthermore the knockback powers which I assume were meant as an added measure of control do almost nothing and frequently just irritate the scrappers and tankers. We have the big 3(insulation, deflection, and dispersion), the rest are superfluous fluff that serves no real point than to fill in the other 6 powers. Btw since you know defenders so well, without looking them up, what are the other 6 powers besides those three fields?

I'm just curious how many you know or how many you have used since you seem to know better than FFers what we are capable of.

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Which two defender primaries are better than all the rest, and which two ATs are better than all the rest? Just curious; I honestly can't imagine what those two might be.

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Rad and Dark. Dark can do everything except boost your endurance and comes with pets, rad can do everything except free you from mez(though it does halve your mez duration).

The two AT's that are far better than the others are Controllers post 32 and Tankers in their current state. Nothing can really compete with tankers in terms of damage to be taken(rightly so) but also damage able to be dealt(thinking mostly of energy, fire(primary), and axes here as I don't have much experience with others)

I'm with Hobo_Healer, what gives with no diversity for defenders?

Can't archery and sonic buff/debuff be defender only?

What's the rationale behind sharing everything new between squishies?

Definitely! Force bolt is my most frequently used bubble power. It's the only KB power that actually is useful. Though I do wish some of our bubbles worked more like fake nemesis bubbles than our own. Imagine if force bolt could dish out damage like the lollipops!

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If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that.

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Most of that is done beforehand(the buffing). Getting a group herded together tightly enough to pop off fulcrum shift and use nuke/nova etc is very possible. It's probably easier for my SG and I because we tend to run in defender/controller heavy teams, but it is possible. Yes there's a stun/delay/end regen penalty, but a damage capped nuke along with the versatility any defender brings to a team is amazing and worth the damage difference.

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It's really not that impressive. It just SEEMS impressive because you're used to your attacks sucking all the time.

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No it seems impressive because on top of causing all of that damage, I can also keep my entire team healed, buffed, unmezzed, and full on endurance. To me, that's well worth the difference in damage. If anything blasters have the short end of the stick because all that they have is damage.

Both defenders and blaster sets should be reworked to keep them alive longer. For blasters I envision a secondary composed of some scrapper melee and resistance/defense powers instead of just lots of melee damage which never gets used and defenders just as able to solo as all the other ATs as well as keep themselves as buffed and alive as the rest of the team. But it's not my game to design.

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If you gave Defenders the ability to buff themselves, it'd change very little about the game. Only three primaries in one AT would be affected. Being able to self Fort/CM, SB/ID, and bubble would actually make you MORE useful to a team because they could stop worrying about you dying or being mezzed all the time. You'd get three uber defense Blasters with lame damage. Hell, with perma-PowerBoost Blasters can get those kind of defenses already and it sure didn't make them overpowered.

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Remember Rad and Dark already benefit from their buffs/debuffs. AM, EF, RI, heal, EMP, LR, and for Dark has tar patch, twilight grasp, pets, etc. The biggest draw for these powersets is that the possessor of the power can directly benefit from the usage of these powers.

Once a controller gets pets they can take advantage of their buffs by proxy(i.e. putting them on their pets).

The only buffs that are not self-castable are clear mind, fort, heal other, adren boost, deflection/insulation shields, speed boost, increase density, and O2 boost(I may have missed some apologies if I did).

If you think that no one will care because controllers can do it all better think again. Fulcrum shifted nuke/nova/blackstar is a sight to behold.

Changing knockback to knockdown would also solve most of stormies problems with them being overshadowed by controllers.

Giving defenders these abilities over controllers would dramatically boost the sets that need help while not changing the sets that don't and without downing or altering controllers.

Will blasters suddenly forego their ability to do massive amounts of damage in order to babysit a team and give themselves speed boost? I really doubt it. People play defenders because that is the personality with which they generally gravitate towards.

Defenders are protective, patient, thoughtful, always strategizing like controllers but never sacrificing their ability to fight in order to do so. Changing some buffs won't make any AT absolete, it just gives those powersets that need them some simple help in the right direction as well as better self sufficiency(which EVERY other AT has post lvl 32).

I've noticed most FF/EN defenders seem to have the best luck. My guess is that the knockback from EN helps stall opponents from attacking more frequently. Though psi and knockback resistant mobs/AVs still ridiculously overpower us.

FF/Dark can still throw out TT, Elec has short circuit, but rad/psi are left with little crowd control abilities in either their primary or secondary. Just a guess, I don't care enough to test it out firsthand.

No an unstoppable duo is a DA scrapper or fire tanker + a bubbler.

I know you think that psi is the only hole that FFs have, but it's not. Untyped damage(yes I'm talking about you Hamidon), auto-hit damage (those delightful caltrops from knives of artemis), super buffed accuracy(av's), sleeps(from tons of DE), and any psi(carnies/rikti whoop up on you).

So actually SR scrappers have a leg up because their defense, while less, is against ranged or melee NOT the type of damage being thrown at you.

You've made the same mistake the devs made in that thinking because FF sounds great on paper and has only one damage type that it can't protect against, that everything is great. Sorry man, play a FFer, then you will understand.

I know

That's why I didn't delete him in November. At this point I'd rather play a peacebringer though instead of a bubbler so it's cool. Only 6 more levels too!