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Damage Control is in effect and if you do not think so ask why was the SS/SJ OFFICIAL THREAD LOCKED?
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Because they started another one with the new idea Statesman had for SS/SJ?
So you just rant on without every reading? Can you read? If not, we can make some pretty MS Paint pictures to describe just what you are missing while you are ranting about how the sky is falling.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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Before this thread gets too long with much deserved praise for Cuppa, I have a question. It is suggested that the best place for the devs to see our concerns is in an official thread. What is our proper course of action if there is no official thread on the issue.
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Start a thread, or find a pre-existing thread with a lot of good comments in it, and ask Cuppa to sticky it.
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You're mirroring what you're complaining about to a "T"
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Could it be... someone finally caught on to what I've been doing?
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
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The only other powersets I can think of that can actually do enough damage and take enough damage to solo an AV is illusion and fire controllers.
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I guess you missed the Inv/EM and Inv/SS tankers (and I think an Inv/Mace or Stone/Mace) who soloed AVs within the past month. There's also the Storm defender who soloed psychic Babbage and probably a few AVs.
The only AT that has never had a player post a screenshot or video of soloing an AV happens to be blasters.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Let me just say it all now and never look back:
If the regen nerfs meant anything, I would be right there complaining with most of you. I'm a blaster. I team almost always with a regen scrapper. She's not a maximum build, but she can hold on to her own. She doesn't have stamina, but she makes up for that with dark consumption.
When the nerfs first hit, I was worried for her and, by extension, me. If we team in the arena, how would our team do if she kept dying. But then she tested it. First she hung around after a Hami raid on Pinnacle and fought some Lattices. She found that she couldn't beat it and they couldn't be her. Then she went over to test and found the same kind of Lattice in the same Hive there. She attacked it and found that while she took a bit more damage than before, she healed it back before it ever became a factor. Never once was she at risk nor was she even in the red. She doesn't have dull pain perma or any of that. She didn't even change her slots from live to test.
Later that week, we all decided to do my Malaise/Rikti mission for influence. We were a team of 8 50s set on invincible. Upon entering, the mentalists QUICKLY dropped the team because we weren't paying attention... except for the regen scrapper.
Last night on live, her dark melee/regen scrapper faced my dark melee/invul scrapper. As a final test on how viable regen still is and how little the nerfs hurt her, she ran a life without instant healing. Took me a minute and a half to kill her. Then she ran without integration. Took me a little over a minute. With both running at the same time, I couldn't even get her down to 90%.
So that's why I keep posting. It's just like the 30 different threads from angry SS tankers about how they couldn't keep aggro with Rage's drop. Then, after it went to live, I finally got fed up and tested it with a SS tanker and found you COULD keep aggro with it. Yet the angry attacks on the devs continued.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
The bottom line is that the changes to scrappers hurt. A lot.
My scrapper is Martial Arts / Regeneration. He now hits less and burns more endurance doing so.
The patch has effectively made the MA - Regen build a lose / lose situation. I hope that a re-examination is in order and some sort of compromise is made. If the previous thought was that scrappers were broken, they're even worse off now.
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We care an awful lot about this game. We pour our hearts, minds, and energy into making this game. Many of us have spent years of our lives working as hard as we can and trying our best to make the best game possible.
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Man, I just got a tear in my eye.
You know I really love you guys too. Even though I give you guys a hard time and I want to hold a Riot!
GROUP HUG!
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The only AT that has never had a player post a screenshot or video of soloing an AV happens to be blasters.
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Are you sure? Back during the Smoke Grenade/Caltrops bugfest, it would surprise me if a few Blasters didn't manage to solo AV's at various times. Heck, with Caltrops functioning as an unresistable hold right there in the beginning, an AV would be a cakewalk. Certainly nothing recent, though, Blasters just don't have the tools any more. Not that anybody should have the tools, but Blasters are conspicuous by the lack.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
You know how there's a EULA text you have to agree every time you start the game? Well, maybe this post by Cuppa should be required reading before every post on forums. (now, if there was only a way to make people actually read it) 
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You know how there's a EULA text you have to agree every time you start the game? Well, maybe this post by Cuppa should be required reading before every post on forums. (now, if there was only a way to make people actually read it)
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But how many people actually READ the EULA?
I think we know the answer to that, Brimstone: Forced IGN-like delay page forcing people to read it and click through.
Okay, bad idea.
Current Badge Hunter: Plot Device (Rad/Thermal/Dark) - 1,268 Xbox Live: Friggin Taser
King of Electricity, Lead Inmate running the Carl and Sons asylum, the "Man" behind the Establishment, Given Honor in Hat Form By Paragon City (Favorite Forum Poster 2006!), Master of Ceremonies of the Fair Use Law podcast
Well, I love the Dev team--I just don't always agree with them. You are absolutely commited to making a good game. The Dev love for this game was evident to me the minute I loaded it up and it is still very clear.
However, please understand our perspective. We love this game too, of course. And, as you say, change is extremely stressful.
There are many of us who violently dislike the PvP system precisely because it introduces a great number of nerfs into the environment. I would, above all else, prefer the game's rules to remain as stable as possible.
Nerfing scrappers and tanks--which must naturally lead to a nerf of defenders and controllers--seems like overkill. This will create a great deal of animosity. I can imagine being a regen scrapper and suddenly finding out that I am being nerfed again because now that invulnerable tanks are weaker, the standards have been lowered and I am still strong.
It seems to me there are two culprits here. 1) The ability of some ATs to create large herds of Mobs. 2) The PvP defenses of scrappers and tanks.
I'd much rather you designed something like a debuff code to resolve the second problem. You must be able to tone down any power in PvP and it would make sense to have a central program that could just debuff characters appropriately whenever they went into PvP.
I think the first problem would be best resolved by a debuff system kicking in when a player is struck by, say, twenty-five or more mobs. The hits would debuff def, resistance, and healing ability--pretty much ending herding except as an emergency measure.
It would still allow a tank to pull a group into a safer place, though!
If you really plan on going after scrappers and tanks I strongly recommend the carrot.
Tanks might very well accept being weaked quite a bit if you take out the kryptonite. Give inv some psi resistance (replace Unstoppable with Determined and make it a fairly end draining toggle that helps resist psi and fear and end drain--but not confusion, hehe) and nice toxic resistance (through resist elements).
Remove the drawbacks of granite armor.
Fix Ice so it maches the other sets.
Reduce the end cost of fire tank armors to make up for the resistance I strongly suspect you will end up taking away. Possibly give them knockback resistance as a way of compensation.
Removing your trump cards in exchange for a big chunk of our defense is a deal that a lot of tanks will embrace.
At least it won't be universally hated. And in the end tanks will be capable of tanking more.
If you apply the same strategy for scrappers (for instance: no Regenerator should ever, ever, EVER need Stamina; no SR scrapper should want the second rate power hasten) this could all go much more smoothly.
Anyway, want you all to keep up the good work. You are respected, know that, and I don't ever want the devs being jadded (or, god forbid, another authoritarian post like the first invulnerable nerf one).
Keep up the good work and keep the channels of communication open!
Having seen what a lack of communication can do to a playerbase (WoW anyone) I have much <3 for Cuppa and the devs here .
COH/CoV - Virtue
8 Ball - Lev 50 Kin/Energy Defender
The Canadian Fist - Lev 50 Ice/EM Blaster
Omega Ghost - Lev 50 Robo/Dark MM
Ghostfall - Lev 50 Arachnos Crab Soldier
I strongly support CuppaJo and the devs, in general. However I don't trust Statesman anymore, and I haven't for a while. He's very subtle sometimes about how a change to the game will affect powers. The latest Burn nerf is a good example. They quite craftily explained what fear powers effect would do now, and how taunt would work with it. However the power that this change seems to really have been introduced for is Burn.
I agree, there is logic in that baddies don't want to stand in fire, but similarly, why would they want to stand toe-to-toe with a 7 foot tall robot winding up with Knockout Blow? Sometimes you just have to check logic at the door with games, and especially with superheroes.
At any rate, when Posi, Geko or any of the devs make a response on the boards, they are very clear in their meanings. Statesman? Not so much.
Cuppa, you're awesome, just figured I should toss that in there. Posi, Geko and the rest, you do great work. Statesman.... meh. Whatever.
*edited for late night spelling. I suspect I still missed some stuff...*
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You're mirroring what you're complaining about to a "T"
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Could it be... someone finally caught on to what I've been doing?
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Well, sure, but what do you expect to accomplish?
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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A ton have quit? Just how many is that? Is there proof? I know of absolutely no one that has actually quit over any changes.
[/ QUOTE ] Well, I don't think a ton have quit, but I should probably point out a few things if this topic is up.
First, when most people quit, they just leave without saying anything. This is probably the wise choice anyway.
Second, if someone wanted to say something, they wouldn't be able to--as soon as you deactivate your account, you lose posting ability.
Between those, nobody who has already quit is going to be telling you about it. They won't or can't.
Finally, I do know of some people that, although they still think the game is fun, consider recent changes in the attitude of the game a bad sign. They simply don't log in as much anymore or stop renewing their accounts. On the plus side, NCsoft won't delete their accounts, so they could always come back someday.
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The only AT that has never had a player post a screenshot or video of soloing an AV happens to be blasters.
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Are you sure? Back during the Smoke Grenade/Caltrops bugfest, it would surprise me if a few Blasters didn't manage to solo AV's at various times. Heck, with Caltrops functioning as an unresistable hold right there in the beginning, an AV would be a cakewalk. Certainly nothing recent, though, Blasters just don't have the tools any more. Not that anybody should have the tools, but Blasters are conspicuous by the lack.
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I believe that at least one blaster posted about floorign an AV's chances to hit him - not sure which AV, though, or if he actually defeated it. There were no screenshots, demos, or videos of it, however. I believe the first video/demo of anyone soloing an AV was Confessor against Chimera.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Cuppa and the Devs and the extra mile they go to maintain this sort of interaction with the community, to care this much about the game and the players, is what really sets CoH a cut above for me.
It's easy to understand, seeing some of the negativity out there, why the devs and staff on other games hide behind the curtain. I imagine I'd probably do the same. But the fact that you guys don't take that easy way out makes this a better place to be.
CoH Codex : Demo Models/FX/MOVs : Demo Info
Arc 111022: "Doctor Geist and the Scientific Method"
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There's a flaw in your reasoning. 3 year olds don't post on the forums. Adults, however, do. And it's not an unfair request for people to *act* like adults instead of throwing temper tantrums like 3 year olds.
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Some people are more docile than others. On the other hand, some people grow up and become revolutionaries, protestors, and radicals. Those people were taught (rightly) to question authority. And those people will speak loudly and tersely when it's justified. And the docile ones will think the loud ones are being immature.
And the authority under question can respond to protest in a number of ways. How Cryptic responds to the community, even when the community is rioting, is up to them. But don't cause the riot and then act all offended that you got one.
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LiquidX was perhaps being too obtuse in his response to your earlier post. Let me build on his comment.
You are arguing that its ok to act like a 3 year-old in the forum, ya goof. I'm not being 'docile' or advocating complete docility, just a fricking adult argument. Sometimes when someone disagrees with you and labels infantile name-calling and antics as immature, it's just because it's immature and not because they're trying to demonize your opinion.You point at a lot of other people and blame them for everything that you don't like. Adults acknowledge that only in very rare cases is one party responsible for a conflict escalating. The devs doing something you don't like or understand doesn't give license to act like a 3 year-old. It certainly doesn't give license to throw tantrums without drawing the ire of people you would likely label 'fanboys'.
Time after time, I've come across critical posts that I've had some shred of sympathy for, but acknowledgement of sympathy and agreement is nearly drowned out by my tendency as an adult to point out and discourage rude, churlish, childish, ill-informed, or short-sightedly subversive talking points. (Though, if if someone is deft enough to be subversive - even for silly goals - I usually give a respectful nod to their rhetorical skill.)
I've never been swayed by a tantrum, but I have modified or reversed an opinion based on a reasoned argument. You're pretty much saying, "If you don't infantile tantrums from grown adults, don't do anything that players dislike." How about we - your fellow players and the devs don't negotiate with verbal terrorists and just you and you tantrum-apologists just grow the [censored] up, eh? Your tantrums aren't that good at fomenting change, and they ultimately diminish the amount of meaningful dialogue about the game between the players and the devs.
Just as 3 year-olds disrupt discourse between adults for the sake of a binky. Awesome line of reasoning you've got there. Way to win hearts and minds.
Tx for the post, it's comforting to hear that you hear us when we want to be heard about stuff we think you need to hear . . . well, thanks.
One thing, though.
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Many times, if you do not see a response from the dev team about an issue then either investigation is ongoing and no conclusions have been made yet or the dev team is satisfied with the issue as it is. I want to stress that even though this may be the case, they are always reading your feedback and taking it into consideration.
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If the dev team is satisfied with an issue, could you let us know?
There is nothing more frustrating than testing an issue, discussing an issue, dealing w/ an issue, and posting on an issue without any response. If the "no response" is b/c the powers are working as intended, it doesn't seem like it would harm much for the devs to just pop up w/ that post, and explain why it's working as intended. At least that lets us know what the context of the power is, so we can better understand what's going on w/ our beloved heroes.
Thanks!
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If the dev team is satisfied with an issue, could you let us know?
There is nothing more frustrating than testing an issue, discussing an issue, dealing w/ an issue, and posting on an issue without any response. If the "no response" is b/c the powers are working as intended, it doesn't seem like it would harm much for the devs to just pop up w/ that post, and explain why it's working as intended. At least that lets us know what the context of the power is, so we can better understand what's going on w/ our beloved heroes.
Thanks!
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Well...
Sometimes just because the Dev's are satisfied with the issue as it is doesen't mean that someone can't come along with a brilliant idea or something that no one else saw. So, if they say "Well, we are fine with this as it is now" runs the risk of cutting off the person with that idea.
(Not that this is actually the reason why they don't say so.)
Thnxs Cuppa for the hard work and dealing with all of us. I usually do avoid posting on the boards, because I do feel that at times I don't get heard. Also I'm a casual player, and don't really know much about % of this power and this many SOs cap this power. I am just here for the community , some of our plaeyers are great annd toehrs well are never satisfied. 1 yr has gone by, many ups and downs, with I5 in the horizon we yet to see what the future brings us..now can you pls fix the small print on my enchs screen 
lol ty Cuppa and States...keep on fighting the good fight..
Too bad I'm on page 13 with this post. But hey, I imagine the people I'd like to direct this to are reading every page.
Dear hostile members,
Whatever your opinion is of how the devs may be disrespectful with silence or changes in the game, you are not welcomed to be rude by many of the other players. Those of us who can treat people civilly are very tired of your flames, disrespect and antagonistic behavior. I, for example do not have a single thing to do with running this game, but would appreciate you treating the devs as humans; prehaps humans that have upset you, but humans nonetheless. Your immature behaviour makes the forum unpleasant for other players, hurting more than just the devs you feel are so awful.
My wife was reading about SS/SJ over my shoulder, aghast at what some forum members had to say. She couldn't imagine why people could be so vicious about a game they choose to play, and in public. I pointed out the time involved for the players, and about how one of my toons being hosed by the Issue 3 changes was so infurating. She said, "well, I'm glad you didn't cry about a thing you call a 'toon'!" And yes, my wife plays too, and would never gain anything from the useful parts of the forums, because the people here are just too nasty, to her.
Perhaps someday there will be a slashdot-like moderation system, and the best will rise to the top.
Thank you for your time reading this,
C.
Lots and lots of good questions, comments and points.
Lets start with some failures on our part.
I completely agree that the regen test data should have been clarified that it was not the only test data. Rereading the post I can see how a player might draw the conclusion that those were the only results. I apologize for the lack of clear information.
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Some of the players with the most passionate responses are also the ones who care the most about the game.
Being respectful to anyone is important, Devs included. I must say though, that over the past year it has seemed (I say 'seemed' not 'is') that the same level of respect is not always returned. And I don't mean that Devs are directly rude, but that they sometimes take what appears to be a condescending approach of You don't see the big picture, so you do not realize that what you are doing is not actually fun.
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I also apologize for this. Statements like this are not intended to be condescending in any way. Internet postings can sometimes incorrectly convey someones meaning. As someone pointed out today, Ancient Greeks would not consider a written contract binding because of the loss of intention that can only be conveyed by a face to face exchange. I am sure that anyone on staff who appeared to come across as condescending was misconstrued.
A note about intent that I think is relevant.
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Add to that you failed to disclose the reduction in healing power of Integration until we, the forum posters, noticed it. Then you posted skewed results as evidence of the power of all Scrappers only to have to retract your statements. All of this combined sends a message to us and that message is one of distrust.
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I understand your feelings here, however I want to emphasize that there is no malice in our intentions. Yes, the test data was bad. Yes we listened and checked and retracted. Yes we corrected the issue and retested. There was no intent to deceive you in this - nor to "put those regens in their place" or any other malicious reasoning going on. No, we are not perfect, yes, we make mistakes. But I think we do a pretty good job of owning up to it when we are wrong and making efforts to correct our mistakes.
I don't want to turn this into another regen debate - but I do want everyone to know that there is no malice in anything we do. Yes, we will listen, however, we may not always agree. We can explain things til we are blue in the face but no explanation will ever be good enough for everyone and someone is always going to disagree. I understand that this is the nature of the beast.
I am not interested in analogies to dictators, terrorists or non-violent protests. I might be if we were your government, but we're not. Were your entertainment company. I acknowledge that you invest hours of time and that your time is valuable and you don't want it to be wasted. I mean come on, I have a lvl 37 fire tank. I know how long it took me to get it there and how much attachment I have to my character. The thought of changes to it make me feel all squicky inside. I understand how multiple changes to regen could make people upset. But I still don't think it is anywhere near the level of threatening a devs life over changes, or even calling them names over it. I know they don't have it out for me or my fiery tank brethren. They are just trying to do what they think is best for the game and the community. We do want your feedback - even if you disagree - we just prefer constructive to destructive. However, I will take your concern about letting you know when we are satisfied with a change and see if we can't improve in this area. Be warned - It may be me saying it. Don't kill the messenger.
Ok - on to other things - I think I might be beating on my own dead horse a little.
Taunt changes - I am going to put up an OT about it tomorrow after maintenance. I tested it with my fire tank and didn't notice a change (one taunt SO even level both BA and taunt)- however I am the only fire tank In my group and my burn isn't such that it recharges fast enough to lay multiple patches down so it hasn't seemed to affect me. Notice - this is my character - not a test character and is not an official sanctioned test-o-rama, just your average running around playing. Your Millage May Vary. (TM)
Speaking of Official Threads (OTs) - Send me a PM if you think one is needed - and I will take a look. It might be a bug that needs to be reported instead, or something else, but I will consider it. Many of the OTs we have now came from suggestions from you via PM.
There is an OT for SS/SJ - it is Statesmans post about the changes they are going to make.
The "roles" question is best addressed by Statesman - AFAIK scrappers dmg > Tanks. Tanks def/res > Scraps. Blasters = dmg via range. These are gross generalities.
The "numbers" issue. I know there is a post around here somewhere where a dev says something about not providing #'s because we don't want it to be "City of Math" - I have seen some of the calculations required to get numbers and I have to say that my head a-sploded. Plus there is the maintenance of such a list - and well, you have seen how often the manual gets updated. (note on that - it is coming this month with I4 included) So I would also state that there are some resource constraints in that area. I doubt this will change.
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concern that the defensive bonus of Invincibility is not stacking properly with the defensive bonus of Tough Hide
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I have submitted this question to QA but have no response yet (it is awful late).
If I missed something - I apologize - i'm exhausted. I will revisit in the AM but feel free to send me a PM as well.
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Just because the devs didn't say what you want to hear doesn't mean they didn't show you respect. And with the level of insults, conspiracy theories, and outright lies the vocal minority has provided in the last few weeks, it's you that needs to earn respect at this time.
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Speaking of the use of hyperbole and hysteria to convince people to not listen to what you're saying... You're mirroring what you're complaining about to a "T", while also exaggerating its occurrence.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)