No_Means_No

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If the dev team is satisfied with an issue, could you let us know?

There is nothing more frustrating than testing an issue, discussing an issue, dealing w/ an issue, and posting on an issue without any response. If the "no response" is b/c the powers are working as intended, it doesn't seem like it would harm much for the devs to just pop up w/ that post, and explain why it's working as intended. At least that lets us know what the context of the power is, so we can better understand what's going on w/ our beloved heroes.

Thanks!

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Well...

Sometimes just because the Dev's are satisfied with the issue as it is doesen't mean that someone can't come along with a brilliant idea or something that no one else saw. So, if they say "Well, we are fine with this as it is now" runs the risk of cutting off the person with that idea.

(Not that this is actually the reason why they don't say so.)

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I don't see it. If I post that "O2 Boost costs too much endurance b/c of xxxxx," and we get our usual 5-page flamefest of why or why not, and teh devs say "No,we're happy b/c O2 Boost does yyyyy," at least then I know what they're thinking. I know that I need to look at the power another way.

I'd just like to avoid the constant dead-horse bashing that goes on. If the devs like a a power working a certain way for a certain reason, I'd just ask that they let us know what the reason is.

Tx for the post, it's comforting to hear that you hear us when we want to be heard about stuff we think you need to hear . . . well, thanks.

One thing, though.

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Many times, if you do not see a response from the dev team about an issue then either investigation is ongoing and no conclusions have been made yet or the dev team is satisfied with the issue as it is. I want to stress that even though this may be the case, they are always reading your feedback and taking it into consideration.

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If the dev team is satisfied with an issue, could you let us know?

There is nothing more frustrating than testing an issue, discussing an issue, dealing w/ an issue, and posting on an issue without any response. If the "no response" is b/c the powers are working as intended, it doesn't seem like it would harm much for the devs to just pop up w/ that post, and explain why it's working as intended. At least that lets us know what the context of the power is, so we can better understand what's going on w/ our beloved heroes.

Thanks!

Yay! Less Mission debt! Thanks, States.

*Now if you could just do something about the debt from Teleport lag dropping me into a bunch of +4 mobs. . .*

Add to that problem the probability that at some point the Tank will get hit by 2 attacks simultaneously. At high levels, fighting 20 mobs w/ good accuracy at a time, eventually the Tank's gonna take 2 hits. That probably means death w/o some sort of resistance power.

That's kinda my point - Inv and Stone tanks IMO are balanced to tank AV's. Ice Tankers? I've never seen them stand toe-to-toe w/ an AV or Monster w/o serious debuffing and heals.

It's fine that they stack up against bosses, but is that really an issue?

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If those foes are your level, that is 18.75% beyond the max possible defense to a Boss (Bosses Accuracy is 75%. Minus 93.75% gives them a -18.75% chance to hit you.

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I'm just curious whyEnergy Absorption balanced on flooring even con bosses, while most powers are balanced on +2 AV's.

It's great that it can floor an even con boss, but I don't know anybody that finds a challenge from even con bosses. My Stormy can tank those, without slotted defenses and debuffs. And Storm sucks wind (pun intended ).

Hmm. I'll check that, but I think I was getting the normal white target.

I've been using the lshift+lbutton bind for Teleport, and until recently it worked great. But about a week ago, I started having to click the lbutton 2x while shifted to get the bind to work. If I clicked once, it just pulled up the targetting animation and nothing happened. Sometimes it still works automatically, though, which makes it annoying.

Any ideas what's going on? I have a lot of other binds that use lshift+<key>, is that messing up the teleport bind?

Thanks in advnace for any help you can give me.

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... except in the 45-50 PvP arena, where the characters are technically supposed to be on an equal footing because of their level, but in PRACTICE are going to be wildly disparate in their abilities.

The difference between levels 15-44 and 45-50 is that in the former, you are automatically on an even footing, but in the latter, you will have to go kill a blob a lot if you want a *chance* of being on an even footing.

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You're assumptions are wrong. you have psychic attacks. Do you know the huge advantage you already have, built into the game, over INV tankers/scrappers of all level ranges? No amount of HO's/Accolades/Skill will compensate for this.

Please show me where you've posted about getting this example changed to 'fair and balanced' for PvP.

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Nobody says every build has to be viable against every possible situation. All strategies should have counterstrategies. All tactics should be beatable. All powers should have weaknessess. Psy is the Inv weakness.

Invulnerability and Psy is a weakness that was planned for all stages of the game and is already part of the balance. Without Psy vulnerability, the rest of the Inv powers would have to be adjusted. Just like Psy doesn't have Aim, which is balanced by other factors, among them lack of vulnerability.

HO's have no balance. HO's aren't intended to be balanced with any part of the game. They're intended to be uberloot.

You don't see the difference? Really? You don't?

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I understand what your trying to say but I have to dissagree with your assumptions. You will never see balanced PVP unless everyones AT is the same... and how boring will that be? Each AT has strengths and weakness that no amount of HOs will counter.

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Really? What "strength" does Super Reflexes bring that'll counteract 300% accuracy?

I'm getting really tired of the "oooh woe is us we can't balance PvP." That's hogwash. Of course you can. You can't make everything absolutley, 100%, no ifs ands or buts, even-steven balanced. But you can put everybody in teh same ballpark. HO's rather obviously put everybody in quite different ballparks.

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You can try to turn that argument around, but the fact remains is that you gals and guys don't want to lose. You think that your skills are so great that ONLY if they would not have these HOs, I could win.

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Oh, hell no. I expect to lose a lot. I've got a laggy computer and my main is a Storm/Psy defender. Woot.

Losing or winning isn't the point. The point is why I lose or win. If I'm losing b/c somebody has a bunch of uber lewt I can't even get to, let alone slot into powers, that's a kinda lame thing. If I'm winning b/c I'm slotted to the gills w/ uberlicious junk, that's also kinda lame.

I want to win or lose on a level playing field. I want to win or lose b/c somebody had a kewl combo of powers, or slotted in a great way, or played better. I don't want to win or lose b/c somebody had better enhancements.

Why do you want to win or lose based on what enhancements you have? How is that fun for you?

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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If you want the reward, fight your real opponent, not an artificially buffed one.

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2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.


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No. PvP is fun because you just can't manage all risk like you can in PvE. In fact, it would be better if you had NO access to your opponent's info other than what you observe.

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Why?

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This thread is hilarious, you got people posting in their same post that States said that Hammi's would be at SO level in arena, and then they COMPLAIN the next line that your powers are buffed by 50% instead of 33%.

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What's hilarious are people complaining about other peeps misreading a post, and then getting it bass ackwards. 45-50, HO's are still 50% buffs. That's why some are concerned. SO level buffs don't happen unless the hero is exemped below 45.

If you actually read the thread, you'd see that the vast majority of the posters just want two things:

1. A no-HO option for PvP, and
2. Knowledge of the no. of HO's the opponents have.

You got a problem with that? I'd luv to hear why those 2 things are going to mess up anyone's fun. Who isn't a demented weasel playing CoH to spam, "Noob u pwnzed!111!!" after winning a battle w/ a HO'd-up hero.

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The truth is that fire and illusion controllers can become a 1 person army after 32. I'm not pointing fingers, saying nerf that, but if the devs need to balance things, that's just the way it goes.

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Holy Thread Resurrection, Batman!

Illusion and Fire kick a lot of [censored]. Almost as much as Fire Tanks or Scrapper. So why nerf the ones that are hard to build, painful to use, and downright ugly until they become gawds?

Well, those are thorny issues. HO's for sale, changing effectiveness in PvP, changing uses, all that stuff is pretty complicated and far-reaching.

But just knowledge and choice? I think that's a nice place to start for PvP.

I'm curious. What are the "good points" against letting people know their opponents have HO's ahead of time, and how many? And what are the "good points" against letting people choose a "no Hami" option for fights if they want?

I have yet to see any. Choice is good, right?

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If you want to compete in a PVP match you have to accept that others will be better than you for a variety of reasons.

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But I don't have to accept that HO's should dominate PvP. Lose to a better build? Accepted. Lose to a better player? Accepted. Lose to better tactics? Accpeted. Lose to HO enhancements? Nope. Not accepting that.

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If this game isn't what you like thats cool but be sure to judge it for what it is and not what you heard it might be. I really think there's is room in this game for all types of players.

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And there's even room for all types of players in PvP - if they have HO's.

note to self: there's a "hole" lot of jg on Champions.

*grooooooan*

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Got tired of reading so forgive me if this was said.........

Instead of pushing for no HO's and what not why not push for more ways to get muti-O's. I mean hey yer Lv 45 to 50 why not have the ability to better your toon. I bought this game for the future GvE (good vs evil) so if I have to farm some mob for muti-O's then so be it, lets just have more that one place to get them.

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One of many possible solutions that harm no one.

Along with -

1. A no-hami option like the no travel powers option;
2. Making enhancement types known so if you didn't want a Hami-o fight you wouldn't get one;
3. Limiting HO's to one SO or some other limit.

Oh, man, another West Coaster! Awesome. I feel like I'm playing baseball in the rain sometimes. We should have a West Coast alliance or something.

I'm 36 and live in Los Angeles where I'm a prosecutor. I like to think I'm a real-life superhero, but somehow those real-life mobs don't fall down and disappear. OTOH, they do show up again and again and again, just like skulls!

If you play in the Pacific Time Zone, I'm always glad to help out. Send me a tell.

They might very well be implementing some of these suggestions right now! As we speak, so to speak!

The dev's are pretty shrewd, they aren't going to comment on a bunch of ideas that may or may not be feasible. I'd be surprised to see a post, even if they are planning something for HO's.

No, the only cap is the Damage cap, which limits damage buffs to 400% (500% for scrappers). Or to 300%, depending on how you count - as in, it'll add 300% to base damage.

There is also a slow floor, at 25% recharge speed and 10% run speed.

Other than that, you can slot the heck out of anything you want. You can get +1000% accuracy (theoretically), it just doesn't help b/c there is a 95% cap on "to hit" chance. You also can get +1000% defeense, but against there's a 5% floor on "to hit" chance.

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You can't see the obvious advantages of having heavily slotted damage plus heavily slotted accuracy and heavily slotted END reducers? In *ONE* power?

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I can see what the advantage looks like on paper. But until it's live in it's final format, it's theory at best. Which means I expect the dev's to look at it when it's on test and make adjustments as needed prior to it going out to live.

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I'm not following you here. We can easily extrapolate exactly what effect this is going to have. We know that w/ 6 acc/dam HOs any offensive power can hit, or nearly hit, the damage cap, except for scrappers. We know that the accuracy bonus will be +300%. Do we really need to playtest that out to see it's effect?

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I'll clarify it for you... what he is saying is that until we can actually GET OUR HANDS ON PVP, we cannot tell how it will work and if the numbers are the same for PvP as they are for PvE. More specifically, the exemplar feature. How EXACTLY are HO's going to be effected by being lowered to SO's... are the numbers going to add up to one SO, or are there going to be multiple aspects of the powers that are enhanced as though by an SO? Who knows? Statesman

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Um, we know exactly what the difference is going to be. It'll be capped at an SO over level 22. So instead of +166% damage, +33% acc, we'll get +200% damage, +200% accuracy.

Of course the devs can change from what they currently plan. That's why we're talking this over now - to try to get the system that seems most fair tested at the start. Otherwise, we end up with the terribleness of:

1. Initial system unfair;
2. Ubernerfing of things that seem unfair, and often nothing happen to some unfair aspects;
3. Unanticipated consequences of the ubernerfing, involving even more nerfing and power adjustments;
4. Even more unanticipated consequences;
5. Rinse and repeat until something more evenhanded is implemented.

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That is why "wait and see" is just pointless. It just delays things if there are reasons to change things before the initial test PvP come out. We know without much doubt what's going to happen with their current plan. You think it's OK? Great, let's discuss. You think it's not OK? Great, let's discuss. But there's no point in putting our heads in the sand.