More MMOs need to have a combat system like this game.
Hahahaha, all you guys complaining about actually aiming swords and stuff at your enemies...
The fact that some of you despise twitch gaming, and all... Almost sounds like you're bad at video games. |
So yeah, you can count yourself lucky that you happen to be among the gifted handful that can snap off a headshot on cue. But if you want that game of yours to actually be populated enough to be worth playing ... something's gotta give.
This probably comes as news to you, but the majority of the human race does not have anywhere near the combined level of reflexes, manual dexterity, and awareness needed to do well at twitch games. They may have one or another individually, but the average person will never be that fast, that accurate, AND that good at registering exactly what's going on around them - no matter how much practice they get.
So yeah, you can count yourself lucky that you happen to be among the gifted handful that can snap off a headshot on cue. But if you want that game of yours to actually be populated enough to be worth playing ... something's gotta give. |
Stuff like Deus Ex, Red Faction 1, etc.
No offense to Call of Modern Duty fans, of course :P
Save City of Heroes!
I thnik it's possible to have a combined system that balances out.
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For the record people throwing around the term twitch gaming just cause I suggest actually aiming in an mmo/rpg does not even know what the term really means. Twitch gaming comes from FPS where one wrong twitch/turn and you gonna get a head shot and be killed, you know at a bullet you can't even see coming it moves so fast.
But in the RPG section of actually aiming think Zelda. You get to aim your boomerang which zooms to FPS mode but you can't move. Also there is a lock on button for enemys but you still have to physically make contact with your sword to do any damage. Zelda is by no means a twitch game like Call of Duty or other FPS but it's also not lame dice rolls.
There defiantly is and some games are already doing it.
For the record people throwing around the term twitch gaming just cause I suggest actually aiming in an mmo/rpg does not even know what the term really means. Twitch gaming comes from FPS where one wrong twitch/turn and you gonna get a head shot and be killed, you know at a bullet you can't even see coming it moves so fast. But in the RPG section of actually aiming think Zelda. You get to aim your boomerang which zooms to FPS mode but you can't move. Also there is a lock on button for enemys but you still have to physically make contact with your sword to do any damage. Zelda is by no means a twitch game like Call of Duty or other FPS but it's also not lame dice rolls. |
@Golden Girl
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"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
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I want more combat systems like GW2, where you aren't always locked in place when using an ability and moving around actually does something. One thing I don't like is dodge rolling. That and blocking in other games doesn't really work with lag spikes.
I like how in CoH, I had the need for more than one power, but needed more than two.
In CO, I have a ST attack and an AOE attack, both maintains, and I don't need any other attacks.
Sure, I grabbed the one for concept/style, but due to how it works, it's not worth using :/ (Stat issue) and my other is a Lunge attack, that I only use to get in an enemy's face, and not for anything else.
TOR ont he other hand, I go "I don't need this many attacks!" Of course, I could likely just not train in them, but being new to TOR, I really don't know which ones I need/want, but damn, at level 29, more attacks than I need!
Have to agree with previous poster, I do like TERA's combat the best out of MMOs, and generally, I like the MMO. It's teaming however, and community for the most part, is terrible.
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The BrandX Collection
My main at CO (for now) is a level 40 dual pistols ranged DPS. She can put out DPS like nobody's business, and thanks to their screwed up threat design she tends to take boss aggro 95% of the time. The thing is, she's survivable. I have my own heals, a defensive boost power, quick get out of mez powers, a move away power, moderate HP, and the only reason she drops is if I forget to throw up a block or I take on too many tough mobs at once. She puts pretty much every blaster I've had here to shame and I'm pretty sure she'd clear a +0x8 spawn as well as my scrapper and tank.
Which is why as much as I adored the old girl, the CoX combat system really shows its age. Hit or miss is linear, heck there's a hit or miss system to begin with, resistance is linear, defense is toggle up and go with little activity needed, mez resistance is for melee mans only, snipes were still kludgy even with i24, and Hasten is the game's greatest superpower. It worked, just as long as you didn't look too closely at it. CO really fixed a lot of the issues Cryptic had with the CoX engine, which is a real shame given everything else they've done there.
At the end, though, I haven't found a substitute for the feel of Claws, Street Justice, Titan Weapons, Dark Armor, Elec Armor, Night Widows, Defenders, Corruptors, and most of all jumping in head first into a x8 spawn laughing my head off. There's a lot of things done right here, and I hope its a lesson future games can learn from.
I really liked the CoH combat system, when compared to most legacy (read: wow-styled) systems. Tab-targetting was fantastic, and it always amazes me how CoH has been the only game in eight years (including WoW) that has managed to actually make the tab button function correctly. Seriously, it took Blizzard how many years to get it to work almost right, and last I played it still wasn't quite right.
Anyway, I could go into loads of details for why I like the CoH system better than the universally accepted global cooldown system, but I get sad when I think about CoH too hard, so I'd rather not expend the effort of thinking up something too meaningful.
Suffice it to say, I liked combat in CoH. A lot (at least after the first 20 or so levels. )
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
TOR ont he other hand, I go "I don't need this many attacks!" Of course, I could likely just not train in them, but being new to TOR, I really don't know which ones I need/want, but damn, at level 29, more attacks than I need!
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And that's at level 30. I think I have a few more coming.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
It's always been about the very customizable UI we had and the ability to decrease n increase the chat box with the ability to having other tabs fro different types of chat channels.
Having everything in one or 2 boxes ... just doesn't cut it ever.
Everyone to their own I guess. For me combat and graphics were two things that keep me coming back to CoH (other than community) I tried other games actuallt I think I tried almost all big names except GW2, DCUO and Tera.
Closest thing I can even remotly stand for is TSW's combat style and that is thanks to 7 passive powers (at least it was 7 when I stopped playing but once CoH is closed for good I plan to move to TSW). along with tab-targetting. If I wanted to play an online FPS than I would play an online FPS not an MMORPG but like I said all to their own.
For graphics CoH was making me feel like playing a fun game with its graphics not a comic book or a lame 3D animation which tries to be 'realistic' so called advancement in graphics in other games IMO killed the graphics of games altogether so 'outdated' graphics of CoH was just right for me.
To throw CoH a bone though, the slow pace of powers certainly made them feel...meaty. Like they actually had force behind them.
Neither CO or DCUO's quick based combat feels like you're actually hitting the enemy, just whittling down their HP bar. |
With Might in CO...I can punch someone and send them flying 500 feet.
That's definitely force behind it and it looks/feels like you're actually hitting something.
In CoH...you hit someone with a Super Strength attack and they don't move. Where's the force behind that?
On Topic: I liked CoH combat system...but I also like the fast paced combat of CO.
CoH's combat was good for the game...because CoH was a very social game...and the combat reflected that. You had some attacks with a long enough activation time so that you could type things while your character was in animation.
I like CoH's combat system, and would indeed like to see more of it. That said, I do think it could be improved. Travel suppression was a bummer, but honestly, I've long gotten over the PvE version of it. The PvP version of it needed to die in a fire and be resurrected so it could die in a fire again, repeatedly.
Rooting was more of an issue. Honestly, it doesn't bother me, but I recognize that the game would be more fluid and dynamic without it, and that would be a good thing.
Tab-to-target works fine for me. I came to CoH from a six-year stretch of FPS gaming, and I targeted foes with tab there. Granted, in most FPS games "targeting" doesn't mean the same thing it does here - it was for tracking a target, not automatically hitting them. But the transition was quite natural for me. (I too bind tab to "target nearest". I use alt-tab for "target next".)
I don't need MMOs to reward me for aiming, and I say that as a veteran FPS player. An MMO need not be an FPS, and frankly I'd prefer it not to be, though I could likely enjoy some blending of the two, as suggested could be done above. But I have zero problem with my attacks being "dice resolved", as long as it looks good. (Sometimes, CoH didn't look good doing this, as with homing boulders and the like. On the other hand, sometimes it looked awesome. Seeing Marauder leap away in a Lambda with a mass of ice, fire and darkness pursuing him was one of the coolest looking things I think I've seen in this game.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I like how in CoH, I had the need for more than one power, but needed more than two.
In CO, I have a ST attack and an AOE attack, both maintains, and I don't need any other attacks. Sure, I grabbed the one for concept/style, but due to how it works, it's not worth using :/ (Stat issue) and my other is a Lunge attack, that I only use to get in an enemy's face, and not for anything else. |
I like that players had the choice.
Sure...I could just pick one great AoE and spam it if I wanted to...but I could also pick powers for concept and style of play...and fun.
We all win.
People who want to spam one attack can do so.
People who want more variety to their combat can do so.
While CoH was the better game overall...CO definitely was better in this regard.
In my opinion.
...
And also again I only played melee but in CO feels like I'm hitting something, punching something, cutting something. COX not so much on the punches, which is actaully more comical than CO version, but TW in COX does feel like it has more weight, but the rest of the melee CO seems to feel more solid like it's hitting something.... |
I'm with you for the most part. Some power sets really felt 'meh' when attacking the mobs...mobs hardly reacted to what you threw/hit them with.
I think that's why I loved the Street Justice set (and surprisingly didn't care as much as I thought I would for Staff Fighting). StJ had some great animations that the mobs used/played when they got hit with the attacks (Staff had some too but the sound fx for staff were lacking in my opinion). Loved the sound of StJ's attacks
I would have liked to see power (travel) suppression taken away but, alas, not so.
Overall I thought the combat system was okay for CoH...not great, but not horrible.
I can't stand some of the "wait for power to be cast" animations in some games though. Mainly I'm thinking of WoW right now where you "cast" a spell and you have that progress bar showing you "you're SOOOO close to casting the spell....aaww, you got "interrupted"...try again!"
Sure we have a few, very few powers that could be interrupted but for the most part, fire and forget. I don't like waiting 5s for my fire ball to be cast. *shrugs*
I would have liked to see a "FPS" type of targeting system for PvP....I'd be interested in PvP then (possibly )!
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This was one of things that CO got right in my opinion.
I like that players had the choice. Sure...I could just pick one great AoE and spam it if I wanted to...but I could also pick powers for concept and style of play...and fun. We all win. People who want to spam one attack can do so. People who want more variety to their combat can do so. While CoH was the better game overall...CO definitely was better in this regard. In my opinion. |
Everyone wins in CO.
Want to choose one attack, by all means the choice is there. If you want to be a clawed, ice throwing, sword swinging, arrow shooting, pistol blasting, demon summoning thing in CO you can be that also.
In COX, ya locked into that set and power choices in set roles in set builds.
-Female Player-
Then again, there are some people who whink anyone who waste their time playing a video game is a loser. And some people say they are losers, and some say they both are losers.
The way it is, looks like everyone can potentially be a loser in someone else's view. welcome to the club.
-Female Player-
Although I dont care much for the luck based system and I think it dont make sense for super heros (miss a box with a punch. wtf? I bet if Spiderman ever missed a stationary box he would lose serious face as an actual super hero. Not sure how can a super hero be taken serious if they cant even punch a stationary box or shoot one or slash one with a sword, let alone the enemy.), I think FPS in the way this game is set up would make it a skill to play and probably wouldnt mesh with this game as it does in the typical fps set up. And I'm good at fps twitch based games as they call it now and dont mind the system but think it would take the fun out of it if it was implemented in a game like COX.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."