More MMOs need to have a combat system like this game.


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Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
As for rooting, I grant you that needing to stop to buff yourself was annoying. As for travel suppression, well that was necessary since Arena PvP showed early on that on inside maps Superspeeders were nearly untouchable as they joust you while flyers got stuck with the -25% to hit with Fly.
Just a point of reference : Fly had its advantages, but not for every character in pvp. A ranged flyer vs. a jousting melee super speeder. Fly had the advantage because they could mitigate a string of attacks while keeping up constant damage.

In the same situation Melee vs. Melee the flyer would be sort of at a disadvantage in that the super speeder would largely be on the offense. Though its plenty easy to que up powers so counter attack when they get into range.

Granted the acc debuff was goofy, but as far as jousting vs. flying it was mainly a problem of people who didn't play to their characters strength and adapt accordingly to the PvP environment.

As for CoH Combat, I think it suffers from the Diablo 2 / Diablo 3 effect. Diablo 2 was awesome, its combat was loads of fun as you slayed, hacked apart, and thrashed demons. That was 10 years ago. Doing pretty much the same thing with a new paint of graphics and some new powers had me saying "Yeah, I guess that was fun. 10 years ago."

COH was great, it was amazing. To an extent it stood the test of time. I think the *next* CoH should be bigger and better. Combat in MMO's has definitely evolved (for the better) as someone said, games like TERA, Vindictus, Blade and Soul, GW2, Rusty Hearts, etc have moved past the "stand still and push a button" and instead turned their games into a stylish tempest of combat.


 

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In general I disagree with the premise of the thread. I love the FEEL of CoH combat but I can take or leave the mechanics themselves. The mechanics aren't awful but at the end of the day it really comes down to watching recharge timers. This sort of mechanic was necessary when CoH first came out due to computer and bandwidth limitations but technology has moved on and I'd like to see MMOs do the same.

Now the bit I do like about CoH combat is the general feel of one hero (or a small group) versus an army. This is something that few other MMOs have and something I feel they should strive to emulate.


 

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Originally Posted by CyberGlitch View Post
You mean mindless, skill-less button mashing, suppressed travel powers during combat and a built-in targeting cheat called the TAB key?

Combat was moronically over-simplified in this game.
If combat in this game was moronically over-simplified, the combat in every MMO that preceded CoH (and most that came soon after) was comatose.

Not saying I would not love to see something even more active while retaining the same level of absurdity (grenade launchers, point blank nuclear explosions, etc) ... Marvel Vs Capcom comes to mind as a good model (the first one, the last one was WAY too fast for my taste, cant appreciate anything at that speed.) But CoH DID set the bar very high for MMOs 8 years ago. Even WoW still showcases the simplistic auto-attack and spamming of 2 skills/spells.


 

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I really enjoyed the combat mechanics and aesthetics, at least for some of the power sets. Fun combat is a major consideration for me when choosing an MMO, and it's the main reason I kept coming back to CoH. It's also the main reason I did not like CO and DCUO.

Having said that, I like the direction towards more action-oriented combat seen in recent games. After playing games like Vindictus and Tera, it's hard to go back to the old-style, tab-targeting combat. I just wish that newer MMOs would realize that there are more than three possible group roles.


 

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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood View Post
Now the bit I do like about CoH combat is the general feel of one hero (or a small group) versus an army. This is something that few other MMOs have and something I feel they should strive to emulate.
This...so many times this, no other MMO has even come close to giving me that Superhero feeling of taking down a large group of 10+ mobs on my own and still not making it overpowered (kinda...by incarnate level normal content was a joke) I despise struggling against 2-3 mobs in every other freakin MMO out there.


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Superhero MMO combat systems:

DCUO>CoH>CO

DCUO is fluid, and hit hard, love the animations and the combos. CoH is good enough for a game of its age, and never had a problem with it. Some of the latest powersets made great job for it, like Street Justice or Staff Fighting.
CO is awful and clunky. Cant play it anymore.


 

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I dont consider combat in this game to be any more simplified than what they have in GW2 or WoW. GW2 = 4 offensive powers, 8 if you like constantly switching weapons in combat, which I don't. And one of those 4 offensive powers I would consider an auto attack.

I happen to like the emphasis on AE attacks in CoH vs other games which primarily focus on single target attacks.


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So the system was simple and often made you feel overpowered.

Not seeing the issue here.


 

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... wait, what's the alternative to tab-to-target? Click-to-target? Or some sort of auto-targeting system that doesn't necessarily actually attack the target I want?

I like the slightly slower pace of CoH combat, which still is sometimes too fast for me.


 

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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
... wait, what's the alternative to tab-to-target? Click-to-target? Or some sort of auto-targeting system that doesn't necessarily actually attack the target I want?

I like the slightly slower pace of CoH combat, which still is sometimes too fast for me.
You have to actually aim your attacks fps style but in third person view, if you swing your sword and nothings there you don't hit anything.

I always disliked tab targeting myself but for certain RPGs I will tolerate it.


 

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Originally Posted by Lucky666 View Post
You have to actually aim your attacks fps style but in third person view, if you swing your sword and nothings there you don't hit anything.

I always disliked tab targeting myself but for certain RPGs I will tolerate it.
To me, That doesn't seem advanced at all, Just another reason for people to think they have "Skill" When really, it's a frustrating mechanic.


 

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I click to target, but I like having the tab-to-target as a backup in case for some reason the game won't let me click on my target (which happens a lot).


 

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Originally Posted by DarkBlaster_NA View Post
To me, That doesn't seem advanced at all, Just another reason for people to think they have "Skill" When really, it's a frustrating mechanic.
What's frustrating is letting some electronic dice roll decide if your sword hits the enemy or not.

And ya it is skill what would you call it luck? No no no what we have here in COH is luck games where you have to actually aim your attacks that is the very definition of skill.

So dice rolls=luck, actually aiming=skill


 

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Yeah, that sounds like a terrible system. It sounds like my least-favorite part of the otherwise fun Elder Scrolls games. (And comparing it with FPS games - which I hate - doesn't make it sound more enticing)

I'll stick with hitting one key to target the enemy I want to target, rather than swinging wildly and hoping that something is actually there to get hit, thanks.


 

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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
Yeah, that sounds like a terrible system. It sounds like my least-favorite part of the otherwise fun Elder Scrolls games. (And comparing it with FPS games - which I hate - doesn't make it sound more enticing)

I'll stick with hitting one key to target the enemy I want to target, rather than swinging wildly and hoping that something is actually there to get hit, thanks.
No offense but are you good sir blind? Why would you swing wildly? You know the length of your weapon, can you not see when an enemy comes into range of said weapon? That is the time you should swing.


 

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I liked CoH's combat system because it's not twitchy. I don't have the reflexes to play a twitchy game. Which is why it's going to be near to impossible to find another game.


 

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Originally Posted by Lucky666 View Post
What's frustrating is letting some electronic dice roll decide if your sword hits the enemy or not.

And ya it is skill what would you call it luck? No no no what we have here in COH is luck games where you have to actually aim your attacks that is the very definition of skill.

So dice rolls=luck, actually aiming=skill
But you overlook the fact it suppose to be the skill of the character and his equipment. I already know that I have the eye-hand coordination of a drunken one eye monkey in a centrifuge. I'm escaping here in an RPG, my character is suppose to be better than me. My skill is in how I enhance my abilities, what skills I choose, what enemy to attack and in what order, to know when to regroup or simply run away.

Stop trying to turn RPGs into FPSs that only Red Bull infused teen twitch monkeys enjoy playing. Go fire up your XBox and chainsaw some bugs on rails or go join Master Chef one shotting enemy with a pistol if you want to show off your "skill". My character's "skills" are drowning them in water, setting them on fire, encasing them in ice, tricking them to attack their friends, set imaginary minions on them, stabbing them with swords, knocking them off rooftops with beanbag rounds, pummeling them with my fists and occasionally kneeing them in their junk. None of which are skills I have in real life. So why should my real life skills or lack of affect them?


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Originally Posted by Lucky666 View Post
No offense but are you good sir blind? Why would you swing wildly? You know the length of your weapon, can you not see when an enemy comes into range of said weapon? That is the time you should swing.
No, I choose who I'm going after with the tab key and let the game animate me turning around to strike the target that's behind me. I can alternate between targets faster with tab while spamming attacks than I would ever be able to accurately with a mouse. And no, I'm worse with game controllers so that's not an option.


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Hahahaha, all you guys complaining about actually aiming swords and stuff at your enemies...

The fact that some of you despise twitch gaming, and all...

Almost sounds like you're bad at video games.

But I digress. I've stated my dislike for CoH's combat system earlier, but I'll go about it more indepth this time.

A system where you can "freely" attack with your gear, ala TERA, is fluid. It's fun, and makes combos extremely easy.

Look at the Dual Blades powerset we have. You have to chain several different powers together for combos, where as in a free attack system, you could chain efficiently and quickly, all at once.

In CoH, having to select an enemy, then sloppily fire off my powers... was always pretty bad. Especially if I was being attacked by more than one dude at a time, which was commonplace in this game.

I'm not ashamed when I say I've been playing since 2006, but only have one level 50, and that it's a Merc/Force Field MM.

It's because, going to the max level.... gameplay just got stale for me.

Regarding the Incarnate System and their god like abilities. This is related to my opinion of the combat engine, you see. That only made things even worse for me, a relatively simple guy, who plays games to have fun and enjoy it, not to delve into some crazy **** system where I become some sort of ultrabeing.

I never really "got" into Enhancements, either. I used all the standard ones for my Origin, which was technology. The closest I got to making them "fancy" was double or triple slotting them, with enhancements of the same type in them. I didn't use I/Os, and all that stuff.

Fighting didn't make me feel like I was my character, it made me feel like I was controlling an experiment, or managing phones like a secretary does. Watching toggles, watching my end rate, popping off my powers, checking buffs, sizing up the enemy mobs, and so on and so forth.

So yeah. There you go.

Thank you for your time.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky666 View Post
What's frustrating is letting some electronic dice roll decide if your sword hits the enemy or not.

So dice rolls=luck, actually aiming=skill
basically.


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Originally Posted by Arachnion View Post
The fact that some of you despise twitch gaming, and all...

Almost sounds like you're bad at video games.

No it's just as unrealistic as dice-rolling for hits. There's no build up to attack, no timing, and turns most games into FPS gank-fests.


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I'm with you on that, Father. I used the tilde key programmed to 'target nearest enemy' a lot...and I tried a game controller a couple of times. It was so awkward for me.


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Originally Posted by Arachnion View Post
Hahahaha, all you guys complaining about actually aiming swords and stuff at your enemies...

The fact that some of you despise twitch gaming, and all...

Almost sounds like you're bad at video games.
Some of us are? I played CoH because it wasn't a video game. At least not by my definition of it. A computer game yes, but not all of those are video games.

If I wanted to play a reaction-based combat game on a console, I would play a reaction-based combat game on a console. I have consoles. I don't typically play them though, my kids do (and when I do play them, I silently steam as my kids beat my *** at them).


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Originally Posted by Healix View Post
I'm with you on that, Father. I used the tilde key programmed to 'target nearest enemy' a lot...and I tried a game controller a couple of times. It was so awkward for me.
That is the first thing I do when I get into game and or create another character. Swith the tab to nearest enemy. Works for me.

Although I dont care much for the luck based system and I think it dont make sense for super heros (miss a box with a punch. wtf? I bet if Spiderman ever missed a stationary box he would lose serious face as an actual super hero. Not sure how can a super hero be taken serious if they cant even punch a stationary box or shoot one or slash one with a sword, let alone the enemy.), I think FPS in the way this game is set up would make it a skill to play and probably wouldnt mesh with this game as it does in the typical fps set up. And I'm good at fps twitch based games as they call it now and dont mind the system but think it would take the fun out of it if it was implemented in a game like COX. IMO, again IMO. . Just in case it was missed as it seemed that it have been missed in past and assumed I'm talking about facts so I'm goign to make sure that it's known it's just IN MY OPINION, CO got it right with their combat system and doing away with the luck based combat.


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