NC Soft's BIG MISTAKE
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2012-11-17 06:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Common sense +1
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Originally Posted by CannonballJack
It's a little frustrating that this has to be pointed out at all, much less over and over and over. I understand why people want that feeling that we're "beating" NCSoft somehow, but it's just not so, and players harping on it has been a constant source of irritation for me for the past two and a half months.
Right after the announcement that there would be refunds for subscriptions and last-month purchases, people on in-game channels started harping about how this was because the whole SaveCoH movement pressured NCSoft into the choice. What? No, it was a common-sense move that they were almost guaranteed to make anyway, and probably would have announced at the same time as the shutdown if they'd been doing their jobs. Of course they're not going to keep payments given for services they never provide; EULA or no EULA, that's a lawsuit, and more worryingly, a lot of temporary blocks from banks and credit card companies. They're not going to make it impossible for players to buy GW2 just so that they can keep some sub fees. It had nothing to do with angry CoH players. Still, the cry went up: "We're beating NCSoft!" Then NCSoft made the "exhausted all options" announcement, and, somehow, that was still a victory for us. They weren't going to say anything, but we pressured them into a statement! Well, it's a statement that we won't ever get what we want, delivered in smarmy corporate-speak that more or less declares "and we think you're idiots," but sure, we got a statement out of them. We just didn't get anything we wanted. Still, the cry went up: "We're beating NCSoft!" Now we have the stock slump. Never mind that CoH was maybe 1% of NCSoft's revenue, and that about 95% of it is in Asia. Somehow, this stubby little tail is wagging the dog because we want to believe it is. It's maddening enough that people believe that we can destroy NCSoft (with what, voodoo and wishful thinking?) and that we should destroy NCSoft (because losing 80 jobs is a tragedy, but hundreds or even thousands would be justice). The belief that we are destroying NCSoft requires ignoring all evidence and common sense. Still, the cry went up: "We're beating NCSoft!" But we're not. We're just not. This isn't even a fight. We're angry ex-customers who are angry because we're ex-customers, but they'd already done the math and decided that losing our business was a worthwhile trade for...whatever they accomplished. (Seriously, what the hell was it?) NCSoft has made a weird, possibly pointless mistake, but they won't really suffer for it. Believing that they will just makes us childish, and accomplishes nothing. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Apply that to the more specific question Jack was asking.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Karma is when good or bad happens in your favor.
Sooo...yes...only when one wants it to be.  |
I've joked about Karma when it comes to things that in no way affect me, and I associate with neither party involved. So no. It doesn't have to happen in "my" favor.
From the opposing perspective, if CoH closing was Karma, who's?
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Guess my quote from Moore was a bit confusing. Let me retool the image for you.|
Originally Posted by CannonballJack
It's a little frustrating that this has to be pointed out at all, much less over and over and over. I understand why people want that feeling that we're "beating" NCSoft somehow, but it's just not so, and players harping on it has been a constant source of irritation for me for the past two and a half months.
*snip* |
Looking into a big old warehouse called "NCSoft" where the windows are cracked and some smoke filters up into the night sky, and you can hear the shouts inside of people wondering WTF is going on, and just see the whole thing shuddering before you. You nod your head, and think, "what goes around, comes around," and can turn the next page to your life.
It's kinda like that.
Yes, NCSoft's woes are far beyond what they did to COH. Yes, our own mark on them is small. But yes, it still satisfies me to see this. No need to explain the vagaries of Korean market histrionics to me. Just let me sip my martini in peace, guys.
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Actually City of Heroes runs off of OpenGL and OpenGL is open source and its free so technically they don't (own) the graphics engine neither. Cryptic or NcSoft
Its not like its unreal engine or anything like that which is owned by unreal name
or some of the other Graphics engines.
OpenGL isn't a game engine, it's a graphics API just as DirectX is a graphics API (although DirectX is more a collection of API's including the graphics API).
The Cryptic engine used by CoH was written to use OpenGL just as other games and some other game engines were written to use OpenGL as the graphics API.
There is more to a game engine than just the graphics API.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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I don't know anyone who said this meant we were beating NCSoft. But the pony in the pile of manure NCSoft shipped to us in that statement was that we HAD broken through the wall of indifference to get noticed, to the point where they made a statement hoping it would make us shut up. And yes, that's a small battle victory, it's clear by the lack of any NCSoft statement with the first announcement that they had no intention of saying anything to the community and just ignoring us, sure that we'd just go away.|
Originally Posted by CannonballJack
Then NCSoft made the "exhausted all options" announcement, and, somehow, that was still a victory for us. They weren't going to say anything, but we pressured them into a statement! Well, it's a statement that we won't ever get what we want, delivered in smarmy corporate-speak that more or less declares "and we think you're idiots," but sure, we got a statement out of them. We just didn't get anything we wanted. Still, the cry went up: "We're beating NCSoft!"
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And that gave hope to the thought that, now that we have their attention, we can push for something that does, after all, benefit NCSoft - sell the game. Unfortunately, either there wasn't enough attention or their natural pigheadedness couldn't be overcome.
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Actually, Karma is simply balance. If your actions brake that balance, karma will self-correct it. NcSoft may have acted in a way to break the balance of things by closing CoH for no logical reason, so dropping stocks may simply be a means of Karma self-correcting.
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Originally Posted by CannonballJack
I know you're just doing the serious-but-not thing here, but...was it karma when City of Heroes was given its cancellation notice? Or is it only karma when we want it to be?
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"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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Doesn't have to be in anyone's favor.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Apply that to the more specific question Jack was asking.
I've joked about Karma when it comes to things that in no way affect me, and I associate with neither party involved. So no. It doesn't have to happen in "my" favor. From the opposing perspective, if CoH closing was Karma, who's? |
When good things happen to bad people, do you consider that karma? And there's lots of evidence out there to show that lots of bad people keep having good things happen.
Basically my post was saying "There's no such thing as karma"
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They will kill them all anyways, sooner or later. I am confident they will end up doing just exactly that, as the flailing becomes more frantic. |
Originally Posted by UnSub
So in order to stop NCsoft killing any more gaming communities, you want them to kill off ALL of their gaming communities by going out of business?
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If this company goes completely belly-up over the next year or so, I will not be one bit surprised, because they are Doing It Wrong. We know they are Doing It Wrong just by looking at what thier stock is doing. No company doing it right has stock that looks like that; and their stock problems were going on before the closure of CoX if I recall correctly.
I will feel sorry for other gamers when it happens, but I will smile to myself when NCSoft finally bites the dust. It is far too rare an observation in the real world, but every now and then some group of utter and complete dolts sows the wind, then acts all surprised when they actually reap the whirlwind. A big ol' Nelson-from-the-Simpsons "HA-HA!" to NC when it does.
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Just what we needed. Another atheist/religion debate.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Doesn't have to be in anyone's favor.
When good things happen to bad people, do you consider that karma? And there's lots of evidence out there to show that lots of bad people keep having good things happen. Basically my post was saying "There's no such thing as karma" |
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Well in that case Apple did it wrong by releasing the iPad Mini, the iPhone 5, refreshing the Mac lines.....|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
If this company goes completely belly-up over the next year or so, I will not be one bit surprised, because they are Doing It Wrong. We know they are Doing It Wrong just by looking at what thier stock is doing. No company doing it right has stock that looks like that; and their stock problems were going on before the closure of CoX if I recall correctly.
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Only saying this because Apple's stock has dropped since the release of the iPhone 5 and all of these things, so Apple have been doing it all wrong?
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| I will feel sorry for other gamers when it happens, but I will smile to myself when NCSoft finally bites the dust. It is far too rare an observation in the real world, but every now and then some group of utter and complete dolts sows the wind, then acts all surprised when they actually reap the whirlwind. A big ol' Nelson-from-the-Simpsons "HA-HA!" to NC when it does. |
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*dives into a bunker and awaits the nuclear apocalypse*
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Only saying this because Apple's stock has dropped since the release of the iPhone 5 and all of these things, so Apple have been doing it all wrong?
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Karma is when good or bad happens in your favor.
Sooo...yes...only when one wants it to be. |
It's not Karma.
It's Nemesis!
Thelonious Monk
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I would argue that the difference is that Apple's downturn is recent and very probably temporary (according to most analysts). NCSoft's drop has been both steeper and longer-lasting. It's leveled off a bit in the last week or so, but the prognosis isn't good. GW2 is showing some signs of poor player retention. I fully expect Blade In Hole, er...Blade & Soul to bomb badly in the western market. I predict that NCSoft will contract into being once again an almost exclusively regional player in the gaming market.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well in that case Apple did it wrong by releasing the iPad Mini, the iPhone 5, refreshing the Mac lines.....
Only saying this because Apple's stock has dropped since the release of the iPhone 5 and all of these things, so Apple have been doing it all wrong? |
What's more, I think they know it. That "realignment of company focus" line wasn't (just) corporate PR bilge. GW2's release and the Western port of B&S were set in motion some time ago, with so much spent on them that recouping as much as possible is critical. But I don't expect any more serious moves in the Western gaming market from NCSoft.
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
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Now THAT is Karma |
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
I don't want any sympathy when it happens... I mean, I got none from this community the previous times NCsoft closed down on my games. All I got in general was a big "well, you did play a crap game, so you should have expected it"...
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The Anti-Karma.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
It's Nemesis!
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Short-term vs long-term.|
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well in that case Apple did it wrong by releasing the iPad Mini, the iPhone 5, refreshing the Mac lines.....
Only saying this because Apple's stock has dropped since the release of the iPhone 5 and all of these things, so Apple have been doing it all wrong? |
Benjamin Graham said that, in the short term, the stock market is a VOTING machine. Stock prices are determined by investor sentiment. In the long term, the market is a WEIGHING machine and stock prices accurately reflect the value of the underlying company.
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I think the MMO industry is dying. As I see it, there were two types of players. Those that got the game, played the hell out of it and sometimes return for updates. Then there is the set community. Each time they kill an mmo before at least making a sequel, the playerbase community will be less likely to try again. Player investment keeps dropping.
At least when I buy a different type of game, I can keep playing it years after the devs stop updating it. Its not reliant on dev side servers. Even halo 1 for PC and xbox can still be played via solo or private servers. MMOs are a lot more expensive for the consumer, from subs to micro trans, and then when a company decides to, its all gone. It all seems illogical and a scam.
I bought the game, not the client end only codes. I understand having a monopolized server but once the company stops, the server monopolization should end. I'm hoping eventually a lawsuit can occur because this method of business is unlike any other in the game industry.
Bottom line, if I buy a game, I should be able to pull that game out 20 years later and play it, just like ALL my PC and console games I've ever bought. If not than I've never really bought the game, just rented a game for 8 years plus server rent.
Has anyone talked about pooling all our resources for a lawsuit? Because if Icant play CoH in some form or way after Nov 30th, then that's false advertising cuz Iobvously didn't really buy the game. :-(
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I think someone talked about it but not sure where it's at or did they actually follow through.|
Originally Posted by Sin_Stalker
I think the MMO industry is dying. As I see it, there were two types of players. Those that got the game, played the hell out of it and sometimes return for updates. Then there is the set community. Each time they kill an mmo before at least making a sequel, the playerbase community will be less likely to try again. Player investment keeps dropping.
At least when I buy a different type of game, I can keep playing it years after the devs stop updating it. Its not reliant on dev side servers. Even halo 1 for PC and xbox can still be played via solo or private servers. MMOs are a lot more expensive for the consumer, from subs to micro trans, and then when a company decides to, its all gone. It all seems illogical and a scam. I bought the game, not the client end only codes. I understand having a monopolized server but once the company stops, the server monopolization should end. I'm hoping eventually a lawsuit can occur because this method of business is unlike any other in the game industry. Bottom line, if I buy a game, I should be able to pull that game out 20 years later and play it, just like ALL my PC and console games I've ever bought. If not than I've never really bought the game, just rented a game for 8 years plus server rent. Has anyone talked about pooling all our resources for a lawsuit? Because if Icant play CoH in some form or way after Nov 30th, then that's false advertising cuz Iobvously didn't really buy the game. :-( |
There might be one small kink in that little agreement that states that they may pull the plug at anytime and when ok is clicked and or you continue to play it assumed that you actually read and agreed to the terms.
But yeah as an MMO, it's basically just renting.
It's one of the reason why there is usually one giant and the rest are small as it seems that the more money a game makes the safer it is. The less it makes, the less stable it is.
First MMO?
I hope it dont put a sour taste in your mouth now but yeah you're right about them saying that MMOs days are nubered. With console games now, you can play online with people just like in an MMO but when the server go offline you still are able to play the game.
I wouldnt call it illogical or scam. Just like loans. You can go through a traditional bank and not have to worry about much besides a bunch of paper work or you can go to one of those short term loan places with crazy high percentage rates but less paper work. Depending on person situation, the high percentage rate is a god send while everyone else would say it's crazy to do those types of loans. Here, you can play console games and not have to worry about putting more money into it, or you can play MMOs with the risk it can be gone any day. You can put your money into a savings account and have very low returns but low risk or you can enter stock market and have ptoential high returns but it can all be gone the next day.
Each time you log in on an MMO it is assumed that you read and agreed to their process and had no problem. If there was time for a lawsuit it would have been months to at least a year ago. Now it just look like it's a problem because the company decided to actually exercise their right as agreed by the player as being no problem before the announcement.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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Have no idea. I have no horse in that race, since I own no Apple products. Whether or not Apple lives or dies is nothing to me - after all, all those jobs are overseas so the US has little skin in that game, right? Right. Also, Apple is a company literally hundreds of times larger and more complex: I dont see that there is much of a parallel there. |
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
Well in that case Apple did it wrong by releasing the iPad Mini, the iPhone 5, refreshing the Mac lines.....
Only saying this because Apple's stock has dropped since the release of the iPhone 5 and all of these things, so Apple have been doing it all wrong? |
[However I have seen a few online articles questioning Apple's recent direction, so I guess anything is possible. I remember when AOL and Myspace were The Supreme Beings in thier respective classes; both are now shadows of what they once were. And IBM! IBM was The Uber-est. Not so much anymore.]
Any company can be toppled off of their pedestal. I am looking forward to the mighty *SMASH!* when NCSoft topples off of theirs. Thier brainless business decisions will make that happen a lot sooner than any of the above companies' demises, I'd wager.
Apple has 50,250 US employees.
AOL and MySpace failed to adapt to the changes in their core consumers.
NCSoft's Asian market makes up over 90% of their consumers. The changes they are making and games they are producing are specifically aimed at their biggest base of consumers.
If you are waiting for NCSoft to topple over - I would not recommend holding your breath.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Have no idea. I have no horse in that race, since I own no Apple products. Whether or not Apple lives or dies is nothing to me - after all, all those jobs are overseas so the US has little skin in that game, right? Right. Also, Apple is a company literally hundreds of times larger and more complex: I dont see that there is much of a parallel there.
[However I have seen a few online articles questioning Apple's recent direction, so I guess anything is possible. I remember when AOL and Myspace were The Supreme Beings in thier respective classes; both are now shadows of what they once were. And IBM! IBM was The Uber-est. Not so much anymore.] Any company can be toppled off of their pedestal. I am looking forward to the mighty *SMASH!* when NCSoft topples off of theirs. Thier brainless business decisions will make that happen a lot sooner than any of the above companies' demises, I'd wager. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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yeah they will be around fr a while unless they seriously piss off their Asian customers, which dont seem to be the direction they going.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Apple has 50,250 US employees.
AOL and MySpace failed to adapt to the changes in their core consumers. NCSoft's Asian market makes up over 90% of their consumers. The changes they are making and games they are producing are specifically aimed at their biggest base of consumers. If you are waiting for NCSoft to topple over - I would not recommend holding your breath. |
Piss of a few Americans? meh, they probably lose more than that in unaccounted for jet fuel useage.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Wasn't Aion designed for Asia too?
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Apple has 50,250 US employees.
AOL and MySpace failed to adapt to the changes in their core consumers. NCSoft's Asian market makes up over 90% of their consumers. The changes they are making and games they are producing are specifically aimed at their biggest base of consumers. If you are waiting for NCSoft to topple over - I would not recommend holding your breath. |
Yep and Aion at it's peak had 3.5 million subscribers in Asia....Aion performed quite well it's first 2.5 years and made NCSoft quite a chunk of change. At it's worst Aion still posted 300% more in sales than CoH's best quarter. Aion still accounts for 17% of sales in 3Q 2012.
But just like a lot of MMOs the shine wears off as newer shinier things come on the market.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Wasn't Aion designed for Asia too?
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Sooo...yes...only when one wants it to be.
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