NC Soft's BIG MISTAKE
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2012-11-17 06:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Well NCSoft stock went up 6% today so it's possible the sell off is over. To quote Trading Places with modifications.
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| Okay, NCSoft prices have been dropping all week, which means that everybody is waiting for it to hit rock bottom, so they can buy low. Which means that the people who own NCSoft are saying, "Hey, we're losing all our damn money, and Christmas is around the corner, and I ain't gonna have no money to buy my son the G.I. Joe with the kung-fu grip! And my wife ain't gonna f... my wife ain't gonna make love to me if I got no money!" So they're panicking right now, they're screaming "SELL! SELL!" to get out before the price keeps dropping. They're panicking out there right now, I can feel it. |
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Still the lowest they've been since April 2010.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Well NCSoft stock went up 6% today so it's possible the sell off is over.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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That would have been impressive as Carbine Studios have been a member of the NCsoft "family" for longer than you can imagine|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I feel bad for Carbine, but they should have done their homework before joining with NCsoft.
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| "This is a dev team made in heaven," said Robert Garriott, CEO for NCsoft's North American business. "This group is as experienced as they come in the area of computer role playing and multiplayer game design. Making successful games is second nature to them. They are a very welcome addition to the NCsoft family. The gaming community should be excited to see what great things come out of Carbine Studios in the coming years." |
Robert Garriott moved on from the CEO position in December 2007, so if anything, the only game that NCsoft would have closed down would be Auto Assault...
You're right. I now don't feel bad for Carbine. It also reinforces my low opinion of Garriott.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
So in the past week, NCsoft is now cleared of charges on the death of 4 MMO's, AND cleared of defrauding Garriott?
Srsly?
No one cared about the 4 MMO deaths or Garriott before 8/31 - not sure why they care now.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
So in the past week, NCsoft is now cleared of charges on the death of 4 MMO's, AND cleared of defrauding Garriott?
Srsly? |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 4 times, shame on... umm... I think this is where the society ends.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
No one cared about the 4 MMO deaths or Garriott before 8/31 - not sure why they care now.
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I personally don't think that NC's actions nor CoH's demise is going to be something that unusual over the next few years. I get the impression that the gaming market generally is changing with a shift from the PC platform to the mobile and browser one. It's almost like the first generation of MMOs is coming to an end, and a new one is just around the corner.
I don't think it'll be long before other "venerable titles" like EQ, DAoC and probably even WoW fall by the wayside to make way for the new boys. Once that happens all of what's happened here is likely to fall in to better perspective.
@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
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http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat
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I'm not to sure it was all that great to begin with. At least NA side.|
Originally Posted by SteelRat
I personally don't think that NC's actions nor CoH's demise is going to be something that unusual over the next few years. I get the impression that the gaming market generally is changing with a shift from the PC platform to the mobile and browser one. It's almost like the first generation of MMOs is coming to an end, and a new one is just around the corner.
I don't think it'll be long before other "venerable titles" like EQ, DAoC and probably even WoW fall by the wayside to make way for the new boys. Once that happens all of what's happened here is likely to fall in to better perspective. |
I know to many console gamers who look at computer gaming as "WTF?" Those who play facebook and cellphone games nonstop looking at, what I'll call more serious games, as "WTF?" And then those who do play computer games will look at some genres differently than others. Run around in tights as Batman or Spider-Man, oh hey, that's cool. Do it as your own creation and it's back to "WTF?" But be dressed in fantasy armor/robes (or lack there of) and it's okay.
I do think think there will be a place for PC MMOs, but I do think we're likely to see those not making a profit/not enough of one, to close down. If it's not making enough of one, they'll trim down the staff to boost profits, but less new content will come in, so players leave, lowering the profits again, untill it's just not worth the company's time and money to keep it going.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I have old notebooks, from when I was child, filled with ideas for video games that I wanted to see that very explicitly are mmorpgs (long before we had any such things).
I mean, I find it pretty simple to understand why.
I wanted to play make-believe in a vast and ongoing/unending video game world that had graphical representations of everything else and had computer programming to handle the artificial intelligence and interactions and such.
The whole "mmo" thing is really just the tip of the iceburg along those lines.
Unfortunately, no matter how many people want such things, it's the business structure of it all that determines whether or not such things will happen and/or sustain.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Deciding if it'd be worth it to have one of those Matrix ports on the back of my head, for the purpose of playing the most immersive frigging games ever. |
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
The whole "mmo" thing is really just the tip of the iceburg along those lines.
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I didn't play those other 4 games - so I wasn't fooled 4 times already. Heck from what I have seen posted very few people here played any of the other 4 games.
Then again I don't consider what NCSoft did "fooling me" in any shape or form.
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 4 times, shame on... umm... I think this is where the society ends.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Actually quite a few people cared. Not just players of those games either.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
No one cared about the 4 MMO deaths or Garriott before 8/31 - not sure why they care now.
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Still, i personally was less unhappy over the cancellation of the other games because i'd tried most of them and found them not terribly appealing. i knew that NCsoft had a habit of cancelling games that were doing poorly with low populations, but the other 4 MMOs had considerably more warning of their terminations, and CoH was not doing as badly as the other cancelled MMOs by any metric i was aware of when the axe fell.
And the Garriott thing had given me a fairly low opinion of NCsoft management long before 8/31. i'd merely hoped that their Western division was an adequate firewall against the main company's practices. A misplaced hope in the end.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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yeah. the record was already there. I (keyword) I knew it was a greater chance for this game to meet the same fate as the others eventually with the waning population especially. I said something then, especially when I noticed many zones didnt seem to have as many people running around, then again when even on virtue the red side seemed to become a dead zone. Both times the idea of lower population and maybe it's time to take it upon ourself to at least take a look at the health of the game population and maybe try to get more people to play of our game out was dismissed as being paranoid. I figured less players, less money, ncsoft seemed to have low tolerance for underperformance, and most companies have less tolerance for low performance even if it's making a profit for older products especially if they was making ton more before.
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I didn't play those other 4 games - so I wasn't fooled 4 times already. Heck from what I have seen posted very few people here played any of the other 4 games.
Then again I don't consider what NCSoft did "fooling me" in any shape or form. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
When the OP's article was posted originally on 11/7, the trading price was ~213,000 won (KR).
When the OP posted it on 11/17, it rested around 156,000 won.
Today, it's hovering around 158-160,000 won.
A year ago, it averaged 300,000 won.
I'm reminded of a favorite passage by Alan Moore.
The Gamer: Existence is a great simplicity. There is black and there is white. Just look above you. Do you see? That is called the immense board of lights. And there is the great black and, strewn all across it, small and vulnerable and brave there is the great white.
Mr. Nebula: Oh. Oh, yeah. Of course. Hah. You know, thats perfect. Thats really perfect. And the great white I mean, theres so much more black. A-are we losing?
The Gamer: No. Once there was only black. We are winning. All is right. We can go.
- Top Ten, Book 2, Chapter 1. Written by Alan Moore
Good night, Hero Nation.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
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Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Robert or Richard?
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
You're right. I now don't feel bad for Carbine. It also reinforces my low opinion of Garriott.
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Except their stock prices have nothing to do with CoH. If you read anything in the Korean news; ya know where NCSoft is located, you would know why their stock has fallen.
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Originally Posted by Turgenev
When the OP's article was posted originally on 11/7, the trading price was ~213,000 won (KR).
When the OP posted it on 11/17, it rested around 156,000 won. Today, it's hovering around 158-160,000 won. A year ago, it averaged 300,000 won. I'm reminded of a favorite passage by Alan Moore. The Gamer: Existence is a great simplicity. There is black and there is white. Just look above you. Do you see? That is called the immense board of lights. And there is the great black and, strewn all across it, small and vulnerable and brave there is the great white. Good night, Hero Nation. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Care to share the insight with those of us that don't read the Korean news?|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Except their stock prices have nothing to do with CoH. If you read anything in the Korean news; ya know where NCSoft is located, you would know why their stock has fallen.
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[Edit] Please?
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...34_124954.html
No mention or hint at CoH. I'm not saying CoH isn't/wasn't a great game, but it was a TINY part of NCSoft. The article actually tells you WHY the slump is happening and what NCSoft has to do to get it back up to a "normal" range.
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Originally Posted by Rabid_M
Care to share the insight with those of us that don't read the Korean news?
[Edit] Please? |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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That actually explains a lot. Very good information on the reason.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...34_124954.html
No mention or hint at CoH. I'm not saying CoH isn't/wasn't a great game, but it was a TINY part of NCSoft. The article actually tells you WHY the slump is happening and what NCSoft has to do to get it back up to a "normal" range. |
Yeah when the CEO start selling his stock, it makes any investor antsy because it can be percieved as if the CEO is selling his/her stake in his/her own company, a company where they have inside information on, then things dont look good.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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It's a little frustrating that this has to be pointed out at all, much less over and over and over. I understand why people want that feeling that we're "beating" NCSoft somehow, but it's just not so, and players harping on it has been a constant source of irritation for me for the past two and a half months.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...34_124954.html
No mention or hint at CoH. I'm not saying CoH isn't/wasn't a great game, but it was a TINY part of NCSoft. The article actually tells you WHY the slump is happening and what NCSoft has to do to get it back up to a "normal" range. |
Right after the announcement that there would be refunds for subscriptions and last-month purchases, people on in-game channels started harping about how this was because the whole SaveCoH movement pressured NCSoft into the choice. What? No, it was a common-sense move that they were almost guaranteed to make anyway, and probably would have announced at the same time as the shutdown if they'd been doing their jobs. Of course they're not going to keep payments given for services they never provide; EULA or no EULA, that's a lawsuit, and more worryingly, a lot of temporary blocks from banks and credit card companies. They're not going to make it impossible for players to buy GW2 just so that they can keep some sub fees. It had nothing to do with angry CoH players. Still, the cry went up: "We're beating NCSoft!"
Then NCSoft made the "exhausted all options" announcement, and, somehow, that was still a victory for us. They weren't going to say anything, but we pressured them into a statement! Well, it's a statement that we won't ever get what we want, delivered in smarmy corporate-speak that more or less declares "and we think you're idiots," but sure, we got a statement out of them. We just didn't get anything we wanted. Still, the cry went up: "We're beating NCSoft!"
Now we have the stock slump. Never mind that CoH was maybe 1% of NCSoft's revenue, and that about 95% of it is in Asia. Somehow, this stubby little tail is wagging the dog because we want to believe it is. It's maddening enough that people believe that we can destroy NCSoft (with what, voodoo and wishful thinking?) and that we should destroy NCSoft (because losing 80 jobs is a tragedy, but hundreds or even thousands would be justice). The belief that we are destroying NCSoft requires ignoring all evidence and common sense. Still, the cry went up: "We're beating NCSoft!"
But we're not. We're just not. This isn't even a fight. We're angry ex-customers who are angry because we're ex-customers, but they'd already done the math and decided that losing our business was a worthwhile trade for...whatever they accomplished. (Seriously, what the hell was it?) NCSoft has made a weird, possibly pointless mistake, but they won't really suffer for it. Believing that they will just makes us childish, and accomplishes nothing.
Karma. 
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I know you're just doing the serious-but-not thing here, but...was it karma when City of Heroes was given its cancellation notice? Or is it only karma when we want it to be?
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Karma.
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Depends on what you're basing it on, I suppose. But "poetic justice" generally applies to the people who have the power. Not the people who don't.|
Originally Posted by CannonballJack
I know you're just doing the serious-but-not thing here, but...was it karma when City of Heroes was given its cancellation notice? Or is it only karma when we want it to be?
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Unless you're saying that if NCsoft is destined to fail because of its destructive tendencies, then CoH must just a necessary casualty of that... perhaps.
CoH was the final straw for me. I knew about the other games, however none of those games were genres I was especially interested in. I also knew that once they say that they are shutting down a game that there wasn't a chance to save CoH as it existed in August. I'm tired of hearing that "if only NCsoft could see what this is doing, they'll change their mind". That isn't going to happen.
At the point where NCsoft dumped Auto Assault I was already 2+ years invested in this community. Tabula Rasa died when I had 4+ years invested into CoH. Year 5 witnessed the closing of two more games (Exteel and Dungeon Runners). Year 6 had 3 closures (Lineage 1 and two other Korean titles). Likely the only reason they haven't closed 4 games this year is that they are running out of titles to dump.
So over the last 5 years my opinion of NCsoft has eroded:
- From "This company backed CoH when times are tough." (2007)
- To "This company seems a bit mis-managed."
- To "This company is being run by idiots."
- To "This company doesn't actually care about its games at all."
- To "Why the hell do people keep trusting this company?" (present)
I don't change my opinions overnight. I'm no where near that flippant.There comes a point where you have to take a look at what a group is doing vs what they are claiming. They claim they are the worldwide leader in MMOs, but all they are is the worldwide leader of MMO-Killers.
NCsoft doesn't deserve the attention it is getting. In my mind they are already a dead company. I will never buy a product from them, and I will do my best to tell others why to avoid them. I feel bad for Carbine, but they should have done their homework before joining with NCsoft.
I've dealt with other companies that have pulled the same stunts as NCsoft has (take from a financially viable product to fund multiple failed product launches). Things didn't end well for those companies either.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters