Champions Online: just doesn't cut it.
By
Ael Rhiana,
Posted on: 2012-10-06 24:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That's great. My highest character is level 25 and I've been playing the game for a month, and everyone I've teamed with has agreed that blocking is essential.|
Originally Posted by savagedeacon_NA
Really ? You don't block and you die? I have 3 lvl 40 characters and the only istance when I blocked an attack was in the old tutorial when there was a quest that requested you to block to go on.
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Originally Posted by savagedeacon_NA
Aside that if you stand idle your character will autoblock for you,
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Originally Posted by savagedeacon_NA
you have a better chance of survival if you attack forgeting about blocking.
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Originally Posted by savagedeacon_NA
By the way there are healing and temporary invulnerability powers that work way better than blocking
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I recommend picking up cheap timecards from Amazon and saving yourselves a few bucks. You can get a 60 day card for $12 postpaid.|
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
I'd recommend that anyone who tries the game out to dish out the $15 for a month's subscription so they can try freeform characters.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
People like you are just looking for things to complain about. You're dead set on trashing Champs. Please hold while you prove my point.
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I am consciously going out of my way to give the game every possible benefit of the doubt, but it's just not very good.
Also, it is going to be a slog for any longtime player of CoH, however inclined to like it they are.
It's like going from a Wintel box to Apple, or vice versa- yeah they do basically the same stuff, but the way they go about it is completely bass-akwards from each other.
The main thing I've found to recommend the game is the community, which has been largely friendly and welcoming.
But I guess every party has its resident *******.
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Originally Posted by savagedeacon_NA
Really ? You don't block and you die? I have 3 lvl 40 characters and the only istance when I blocked an attack was in the old tutorial when there was a quest that requested you to block to go on.Aside that if you stand idle your character will autoblock for you, you have a better chance of survival if you attack forgeting about blocking.
By the way there are healing and temporary invulnerability powers that work way better than blocking |
Even my l337 build tank guy needs to block stuff fairly regularly.
I haven't noticed the game ever blocking ANYthing on my behalf.
Is this 'autoblock' a setting you can toggle or something? Because that would be super handy.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Tier 9 VIP who's been playing CoH pretty much non-stop for two years here. It took me a couple previous aborted starts, and a few days of puttering last month, but I feel I've gone past basic CO and into advanced mode now. Its not for everyone, but it might not be that much of a slog for all of us.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Also, it is going to be a slog for any longtime player of CoH, however inclined to like it they are.
It's like going from a Wintel box to Apple, or vice versa- yeah they do basically the same stuff, but the way they go about it is completely bass-akwards from each other. |
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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I'm just shy of level 10 and perhaps I am "doing it wrong" somehow, but it seems like block does not do a whole hell of a lot for me. Maybe I will learn how to block "better" as time goes on, however right now its a very, very uphill fight, involving a hell of a lot of death. |
Originally Posted by savagedeacon_NA
Really ? You don't block and you die? I have 3 lvl 40 characters and the only istance when I blocked an attack was in the old tutorial when there was a quest that requested you to block to go on.Aside that if you stand idle your character will autoblock for you, you have a better chance of survival if you attack forgeting about blocking.
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The instant I ding 10 that toon will be deleted and replaced with something else. I am also amused by the fact that at least one of my "ranged" powers seems to require me to be in melee range to do the most damage. Lawl.
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| By the way there are healing and temporary invulnerability powers that work way better than blocking |
I dont actually expect you to break these questions down, but just as a few examples of the mountainously steep learning-curve Champions Online represents to the unfamiliar.
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YMMV and all that.|
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
Tier 9 VIP who's been playing CoH pretty much non-stop for two years here. It took me a couple previous aborted starts, and a few days of puttering last month, but I feel I've gone past basic CO and into advanced mode now. Its not for everyone, but it might not be that much of a slog for all of us.
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But key aspects of CO's gameplay are counter-intuitive to a longtime CoH player, and vice versa.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Blocking? I consider it essential (1 lvl40 and a couple getting close, FWIW). There are several Block options that even cause not-inconsiderable damage to the attacker. Even more of them recharge your blue bar. For every character I've made, blocking is an integral part of their combat tactics.
In any case, I've unsubbed again, since as with my initial foray into Champs (beta + six months after launch), the game just doesn't "grab" me. It's by no means a bad game, and I actually prefer the combat system to CoH, but for me it just lacks that hard-to-define "something" that makes me want to play. I have a couple months or so left on the 3-month I bought...and I will probably only log in a handful of times.
TSW seems to be my new home...
"And in this moment, I will not run.
It is my place to stand.
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands."
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Oh god this. Even within sets there are so many "flavor" powers that you take just for concepts (and because you have to take something). *Note: That "Flavor power" is used, and was created by the CO community, so it's not just a personal opinion.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Another problem I've found is that there are "great powers" and "terrible powers" and no real middle ground. Some builds will be rampantly overpowered because of one or two powers, while other builds are nearly useless. Example: Power Armor is freaking absurd and makes playing other "tank" powersets look like wasted effort. Archery is to Munitions as a shotgun is to a straw and spitballs.
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Take the Earth power set. Literally the first power you can pick out of the tutorial is Tremor. A ranged, AoE, supreme damage attack that kills most mobs (including lieutenants) with two hits. Has no cool-down, uses minimal energy, and has incredible knock-up, meaning that most mobs cant even get up by the time you line up the second attack.
I used this attack. And solely this attack, from level 8-30. And at level 30 I finally picked up a single damage attack that did slightly more damage than tremor with the right buffs. Although I still kept Tremor as my staple attack.
What an incredibly boring 22 levels that was.
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Pretty much all the same things i feel playing it. CoH was my first mmo and i still can't get the timing of blocking correctly and hate having to remember to use energy builders. I played CO when it first came out and have a version of my main here at level 40. Was an energy blaster, using bits of the force and electric sets and some healing. I've played on and off but not enough to figure out the best powers yet. CO seems counter to playing concept, certain powers everyone insists you have to have or so it sounds. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
The reasons I've seen for people 'thrashing' CO are legitimate, especially when you compare it to its superior, CoH. There's a lot of things CO doesn't do right if you're a CoH vet. Blocking, for example. You don't block? You die. No questions asked. Either block or get stomped. Blocking doesn't let you attack, and I can't tell you just how much I hate having to sit there with the Block key held down waiting for 2-3 enemies to stop attacking long enough for me to get a shot in. I feel like all of my characters are constantly on the ropes with no opening.
The tutorial is rubbish, gives no information, and pits you against an enemy so powerful he'll waylay you anywhere from ten to twenty times before you wear him down enough to kill him. Thank the stars he didn't have health regeneration or I'd have quit the game immediately. Another problem I've found is that there are "great powers" and "terrible powers" and no real middle ground. Some builds will be rampantly overpowered because of one or two powers, while other builds are nearly useless. Example: Power Armor is freaking absurd and makes playing other "tank" powersets look like wasted effort. Archery is to Munitions as a shotgun is to a straw and spitballs. I really, really have a problem with games that have skills/powers that're so much more powerful than the rest of the game that they render the other choices obsolete. It's bad game design. On top of that, the level-to-zone progression is so ridiculously unclear it's not even funny. Mill City, Desert, Canada, Vibora, Canada, Desert, Mill City, Desert, Canada, Vibora, and no way of knowing where to go next without talking to half the NPCs in the game for some kind of "go here now" quest. Always fun to go to Canada at level 22 and wind up trying to escape level 32 ice demons because you decided to explore. Furthermore, the gear level drop system is baffling. At level 25 I have 9 pieces of gear for 35+ that dropped off of level 20's. What the ***** am I supposed to do with those and how the hell did they manage to be on the loot table for things 15 levels lower than they are? |
Wow and wasn't just me in the tutorial nice to know. Made a new character in the last week and only died about 6 times. I don't feel super very often either, which seems a general complaint. Comparing 6 years of nonstop CoH to infrequent play though, so maybe champs gets more instinctive.
There may as well not be a tutorial now with how much they cut out of it and expecting you to watch videos in the powerhouse instead. Why is defender there and so useless? The block instructions came up fighting the end boss, and caused me to get hit because it was blocking the screen and couldn't see i HAD to block. Nice.
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Second this, from level 6-37 I've used micro munitions & mini gun because nothing is better. Great aoe and st damage, toggle on fire and forget. Things like orbital strike, plasma beam, chest beam look cool, but they either do less dps or cost significantly more or have long charge ups.
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Originally Posted by Vyver
Oh god this. Even within sets there are so many "flavor" powers that you take just for concepts (and because you have to take something). *Note: That "Flavor power" is used, and was created by the CO community, so it's not just a personal opinion.
Take the Earth power set. Literally the first power you can pick out of the tutorial is Tremor. A ranged, AoE, supreme damage attack that kills most mobs (including lieutenants) with two hits. Has no cool-down, uses minimal energy, and has incredible knock-up, meaning that most mobs cant even get up by the time you line up the second attack. I used this attack. And solely this attack, from level 8-30. And at level 30 I finally picked up a single damage attack that did slightly more damage than tremor with the right buffs. Although I still kept Tremor as my staple attack. What an incredibly boring 22 levels that was. |
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... that sounds like it destroys a huge part of what I love about leveling in CoH, looking forward to the next cool power and, when I get it, integrating it into my attack chain and overall fighting strategy.|
Originally Posted by Vyver
Oh god this. Even within sets there are so many "flavor" powers that you take just for concepts (and because you have to take something). *Note: That "Flavor power" is used, and was created by the CO community, so it's not just a personal opinion.
Take the Earth power set. Literally the first power you can pick out of the tutorial is Tremor. A ranged, AoE, supreme damage attack that kills most mobs (including lieutenants) with two hits. Has no cool-down, uses minimal energy, and has incredible knock-up, meaning that most mobs cant even get up by the time you line up the second attack. I used this attack. And solely this attack, from level 8-30. And at level 30 I finally picked up a single damage attack that did slightly more damage than tremor with the right buffs. Although I still kept Tremor as my staple attack. What an incredibly boring 22 levels that was. |
It sounds like, if I wind up playing CO, I'll just be taking two actual attack powers, a couple of buffs/passives, and just filling in the rest with summons. Because I like summons.
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The forced archtypes in CO are really only a limitation of non-paid accounts. Even free accounts can buy "freeform" slots, though they're costly. Also, for some bizarre reason, the game limits the ATs you can choose and costume selection your first time through the tutorial. This, IMO, only has the effect of giving a bad first impression to new players.
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Originally Posted by End Sinister
I simply couldn't get past the forced archetypes of Champions Online. I know that archetypes were never a part of the original game and they feel hashed together. I was so taken aback by how fewer power sets Champions has too. We were really spoiled with City Of Heroes and its level of customization, vastly different and nearly perfectly balanced archetypes that complemented one another, and its cornucopia of power sets.
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[QUOTE=Novamaiden;4411705]Pretty much all the same things i feel playing it. CoH was my first mmo and i still can't get the timing of blocking correctly and hate having to remember to use energy builders. [QUOTE]
Actually I dont think I use block unless it's one of those tough leveled Super Villains or above past level 15. Outside of that, I just shrug it off and keep slugging away. As I went up in levels, less I had to use block. Then again I focused a lot on defense with the offense to back it up for a well rounded set.
Yea, early on I realize you can block all day and eventually the enemy may still be able to wear you down. S oI made it to where I didnt have to depend on that power except in cases of taking down those few hard bosses.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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Yeah, that's confusing me. Where is GG seeing jerky movement? Maybe get a better computer 'cause the framerates must be taking a hit. |
Originally Posted by Power_NA
CO isn't jerky in any way and if it is then CoH is too, I run the same in both games. Also it only clumsy if you run into every building so try not doing that, because CO is not clumsy at all.
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Or turn the graphics settings down a bit. Movement looks fine to me.
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Pretty much. The lack of any real... deterrent from using the same power repeatedly pretty much kills any strategy. I can count the number of powers I've seen with any sort of cooldown on one hand. Or any powers that required any "set up" of any kind, like some of the later CoH powersets. There's pretty much no reason to have any more than 2 offensive powers.
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
... that sounds like it destroys a huge part of what I love about leveling in CoH, looking forward to the next cool power and, when I get it, integrating it into my attack chain and overall fighting strategy.
It sounds like, if I wind up playing CO, I'll just be taking two actual attack powers, a couple of buffs/passives, and just filling in the rest with summons. Because I like summons. |
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Orbital cannon (anvil of dawn) does a decent amount of damage and does it while you fire your other weapons. It's lackluster even at rank 3 if you don't take anvil (and of course you can't be rank 3 and take anvil, but anvil really is a much superior choice).|
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Second this, from level 6-37 I've used micro munitions & mini gun because nothing is better. Great aoe and st damage, toggle on fire and forget. Things like orbital strike, plasma beam, chest beam look cool, but they either do less dps or cost significantly more or have long charge ups.
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Damage Boost (Lock and Load, for example) -> Orbital Cannon -> Implosion Engine -> Sonic Device -> Micro Munitions -> Minigun makes very short work of everything, plus the implosion engine keeps them in the AoE.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Love, like, neutral, dislike, or hate CO, I wouldn't take GG's word for anything in the game. Her observations aren't about objectivity, but about boosting CoH as the best game evar!1! and insulting anyone who plays anything different.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Yeah, that's confusing me. Where is GG seeing jerky movement? Maybe get a better computer 'cause the framerates must be taking a hit.
Or turn the graphics settings down a bit. Movement looks fine to me. |
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Well, it is(was) the best game evar!1!, but that's not the point. |
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
Love, like, neutral, dislike, or hate CO, I wouldn't take GG's word for anything in the game. Her observations aren't about objectivity, but about boosting CoH as the best game evar!1! and insulting anyone who plays anything different.
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I don't mind anyone thinking it was the best game evar!1! because I happen to like it a lot, and it is the game that got me into trying MMOs at all. I just don't see the whole point of tearing down other games and communities to make one's favorite look better. If anything, it makes it look worse.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Well, it is(was) the best game evar!1!, but that's not the point.
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Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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yea.
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Originally Posted by BellaStrega
I don't mind anyone thinking it was the best game evar!1! because I happen to like it a lot, and it is the game that got me into trying MMOs at all. I just don't see the whole point of tearing down other games and communities to make one's favorite look better. If anything, it makes it look worse.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
I gave Champions online a shot when it went free to play. Never subscribed, but spent a fair bit more in the store than I did on CoH (Because they accept Paypal, unlike the store here). I found in general, most ATs weren't that fun to play, bought or free. The Grimoire, I got the most distance on, reaching level 37. I actually found it fairly overpowered, taking on people 2 or 3 levels above her easily.
You get Arcane Sigils, which are stationary pets that unleash electric damage on anything that gets close.
Either a group heal that's pretty powerful, or a very lovely channeled heal that can be targeted on yourself.
A power that creates a small area that restores your energy faster than you could hope to deplete it, removing all energy worries as long as you stay still.
And a very powerful damage channel that strikes all enemies in front of you for equal amounts of damage, that scales up the longer you channel and removes buffs.
Really, the only two things that ever gave me trouble were enemies with positioning attacks (Messing up my recovery AND casts) and enemies with area attacks. Those demons with their BURN EVERYTHING IN RANGE were bloody annoying.
But still, the game never gripped me like this one does.
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Unfortunately it's common to see such things in gaming forums. Seems to be a set of people who think that you're only allowed to like one game at a time.
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Originally Posted by BellaStrega
I don't mind anyone thinking it was the best game evar!1! because I happen to like it a lot, and it is the game that got me into trying MMOs at all. I just don't see the whole point of tearing down other games and communities to make one's favorite look better. If anything, it makes it look worse.
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I can hate CO while liking more than one game at a time. SW:TOR is going pretty well for me outside of a few hiccups. TSW is pretty good too. And hell, WoW is popular for a reason.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Unfortunately it's common to see such things in gaming forums. Seems to be a set of people who think that you're only allowed to like one game at a time.
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Seriously, just because I hate CO doesn't mean I'm hating every game but CoH just to make it look "better".
It just happens to be...well..an incredibly ****** substitute for CoH.
And bad game in general.
I've already pointed out how the majority of powers in most powersets are completely un-required to play. Or how the only repeatable content is Alerts, or how the game really isn't rigged for teaming outside of Alerts. Hideouts and indoor enviroments have an incredibly low population bar making supergroup meetings near impossible. (or the fact that the only way to access the crew menu for supergroups is by traveling allll the way back to the building in the city) Or how the fact that CO has two textures, plastic and shiny plastic. Or the bad jokes. Or how EVERY mission is a parody of something. Or the very first master villain being a racist asian stereotype that can't pronounce Millennium City because it has L's in it. Or the fact that the QA team seems to be staffed by rocks with faces painted on them, as tickets and bugs sit for months at a time, only to be fixed, then reintroduced with the next patch. Or how, even though travel powers use a separate menu, and a separate power point system, you still have to retrain EVERYTHING to change travel powers.
None of these points are to make "CoH look better", they're just major flaws and detriments to players who aren't already hooked on the game. I wouldn't play CO even if I hadn't played CoH first.
So please, don't lump every complaint with "oh, they're just complaining because it's different than their old game".
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If it's not about you, then you don't have to make it about you. And it wasn't about you. It was about Golden Girl, who loves to insult people who play any game other than CoH.
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Originally Posted by Vyver
So please, don't lump every complaint with "oh, they're just complaining because it's different than their old game".
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Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Well different strokes for different folks.
I am kind of curious of the reports of these bugs. I havent experienced many, none major. Think I experience more bugs in COX per time I play compared to CO.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
By the way there are healing and temporary invulnerability powers that work way better than blocking