Champions Online: just doesn't cut it.


Ael Rhiana

 

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
... okay?
I was simply pointing out that blocking can actually *be* an attack.

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I understand this conceptually, but I simply can't apply the mechanic of blocking intermittently. If I'm not blocking when my opponent attacks, I take a lot of damage.
Which opponent? In instances and with many of the non-instance groups one gets sent after I find one generally only needs to face a couple of enemies at a time (similar to CoH, actually).

When I'm playing a squishy character (read: one without a slotted defensive passive) I've found it can be a close call with some of the "Lieutenant" or "Boss" type enemies (I forget the Champions designations - Villain and Master Villain, perhaps?) particularly if I miss blocking one of their big attacks (signified by one of the big icons above their head). If I miss blocking a couple of big attacks it might get really close. Super Villains might prove to be an obstacle for my squishy characters unless they have the Night Warrior slotted offensive passive, as it gives them the equivalent of Assassin Strike which so far has one-shotted every Super Villain I've faced up to level 20 (I would not be surprised to see it get nerfed, but I enjoy it as-is).

For those characters which have a slotted defensive passive, I can pretty fearlessly march through missions. And have found Super Villains to be a bit tough occasionally, but doable.

And I'm the guy who finds *this* game difficult enough that most of my characters play at -1 Level difficulty (incidentally, there's a difficulty option in Champions, but it only goes down to "normal" and I'm not sure what all it affects). Perhaps the problem is that you have been trained via downtime in this game to not want to take any damage, but in Champions even if you lose nearly all of your health and squeak through combat by the skin of your teeth you'll be back to full a couple of moments after combat ends.

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Chalk that up to another thing that irks me: Why are some blocks significantly better than other blocks?
I don't think they are *significantly* better than each other.

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If you buy a car for $15,000 and find out there's a car with better horsepower and better fuel economy for the exact same price from the same manufacturer, I'd feel gypped and confused.
If I were shopping for cars, I probably would've known about the other car already and probably passed it over for other reasons. The fact that cars with different stats exist certainly wouldn't leave me confused in any case, and given the way the world works I wouldn't even be shocked if a car with better pragmatic stats was cheaper than the one I wanted which had fins and suicide doors.

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This is honestly solid advice, but even when you look at the detailed information of powers you don't know what's going to suck.
Some of the numbers are... odd. At least to me. Damage Resistance seems to operate by a strange scale wherein 50% is actually 33%, 100% is actually 50%, and 200% is actually 66%. And then there's the flat damage reduction numbers in Invulnerability and Inertial Dampening Field (.22 and .11 respectively is what it was giving me with the last character I checked).

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I thought some powers from Force would be helpful in my survivability-- wrong.
Personal Force Field is extremely useful for survivability, at the very least. And it has a knockup power that's pretty useful.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
No, it's not. Please look up cel shading.
I did. Cel shading is a kind of shading used to make graphics look illustrated. The only graphics that support that in CO are the outlines. The rest of it looks more like the not cel shading plastic shader in the picture on the wiki page here, which I referenced before I posted my response, and certainly before Mercykilling linked it.


Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

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Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
I did. Cel shading is a kind of shading used to make graphics look illustrated. The only graphics that support that in CO are the outlines. The rest of it looks more like the not cel shading plastic shader in the picture on the wiki page here, which I referenced before I posted my response, and certainly before Mercykilling linked it.
Yeah, the graphics in CO are certainly NOT cel shading. With the outlines on, there's an effect somewhat reminiscent of it, but it's not cel shading. Overall it's just...plastic. I'm not crazy about the style myself.




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Posted

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Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
I did. Cel shading is a kind of shading used to make graphics look illustrated. The only graphics that support that in CO are the outlines. The rest of it looks more like the not cel shading plastic shader in the picture on the wiki page here, which I referenced before I posted my response, and certainly before Mercykilling linked it.
Except those are outlines, not cel shaded areas. The outlines are not affected by lighting or environmental hues or powers. I'm not saying the game is completely cel shaded, I'm saying those outlines are most certainly not cel shading.


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Except those are outlines, not cel shaded areas. The outlines are not affected by lighting or environmental hues or powers. I'm not saying the game is completely cel shaded, I'm saying those outlines are most certainly not cel shading.
This is, hands down, one of the dorkiest arguments I've ever seen on these here forums.


 

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Originally Posted by BurningChick View Post
This is, hands down, one of the dorkiest arguments I've ever seen on these here forums.
You've obviously never seen me yell at someone about crafting 3d meshes for costume pieces and/or getting pissed about someone suggesting that UI work is "easy"


My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

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The outline looks more like a stencil buffer technique.


 

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I agree with the OP and many others on reasons CO doesn't cut it as a CoX replacement. I have some additional issues with the game that I haven't seen mentioned, no need to get into them, but overall it's just "meh".

It's on my system, I'll play it every now and then, but that's about it...




Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.

 

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Said it before...will say it again.

Because of sharing the same parent company and same lead designer many of the things that were staple icons of this beloved game went over there and got slightly altered so as to not violate copyright laws. But....given the entirely cheesy nature of the game( CO )....it wasn't pulled off well, in my opinion.

Thus, Champions Online will be, forevermore....a cheap ripoff of this game. A redheaded stepchild. A temper tantrum thrown by a lead designer that failed to realize success in not one, but (at the time) TWO endeavors. Perhaps by now, that has changed. Temperance and wisdom might have been gained. For Neverwinter's sake...I certainly hope so. Currently the only thing I find that I dislike about the game is the fact that it's 4e lore based.

But, all this is personal opinion and you are free to disagree and have/form your own opinions. Have a good day!


 

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Originally Posted by Dz131 View Post
DCUO has the best combat system, where reactions and decisions actually matter. COH and CO are just spam spam to your hearts content
I'm not gonna lie, the DCUO combat is ridiculously fun. But their power options feel sort of limited, as with their costumes. I really love how Archery works in DCUO- one side of the mouse shooting arrows and the other side bow melee. It feels pretty great. But barring that, CO is in my opinion a much better game.


 

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I subscribed for a month and am playing CO. It's not CoH, but I'm not comparing it, two different games, two different types of styles. As a game, it will be my replacement, because it really isn't all that bad, it's just different. Have to keep an open mind about these things, that's the approach I am taking with the game.


 

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It's the great thing about subjective opinions: They are subjective and personal opinions.
Some like it enough to play while some don't and in either case and in between that is just A-OK.


CatMan - some form on every server

Always here, there, and there again.

 

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Except those are outlines, not cel shaded areas. The outlines are not affected by lighting or environmental hues or powers. I'm not saying the game is completely cel shaded, I'm saying those outlines are most certainly not cel shading.
Well, I also agree with that. I don't think CO is really cel shaded in any way. That's the technique they employ to make the graphics look more "illustrated", however, and the rest of it is not so much.


Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

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Yeah, I tried to give it a fair go - actually tried three or four times by now, but it never looks good. It ruins the look.


Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

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I play it, But basically only to hang out with the community.

I -really- appreciate the developers support for us, It's just...Weird.


 

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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy View Post
I'm not gonna lie, the DCUO combat is ridiculously fun. But their power options feel sort of limited, as with their costumes. I really love how Archery works in DCUO- one side of the mouse shooting arrows and the other side bow melee. It feels pretty great. But barring that, CO is in my opinion a much better game.
Yeah, I like some of the things they did over in DCUO, but over there my characters felt even less powerful than they did here with no options in their limited selection that felt sufficiently "tanky".


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

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Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
Yeah, I like some of the things they did over in DCUO, but over there my characters felt even less powerful than they did here with no options in their limited selection that felt sufficiently "tanky".
DCUO's gameplay did seem somewhat fun, but
1) I didn't find their character creator useful or effective at all.
2) I found their powerset structure too limited-

These two features- features that practically define a character- seemed to work AGAINST my character ideas more than they ever worked for them.

CO's mix-n-match powerset system (gold account only) gave me much more freedom, overall, but I just couldn't get into the world-- surprising since I played so much pen-n-paper Champions. I found that the stories I created for my characters there weren't tied into that universe very much because I found it so unappealing. While the system and character creator worked to help me bring that universe to light, the world worked against me.

Many of the characters initially inspired by CO went on to enter my stable of characters for my own gaming & story universe, but I couldn't bring myself to play them in CO. Virtually nothing I ever managed to wrestle through the character creator in DCUO will ever be used anywhere else in an even remote resemblance.



COH, on the other hand, managed to bring it all together for me. The powersets were sometimes not QUITE what I wanted, but were close enough. The costumes and the world, much the same. The result is that most of my characters are really fleshed out for me-- real characters with real stories closely tied into the world.... with a few creative licenses taken. Strangely, that same success means that none of my CoH characers exist outside CoH. This world is their home, this world made them the heroes they are, and when this world ends, so do their stories. I'll miss them, but if I ever make another character themed like Chase Arcanum in another world, it will be so tied to that world that he would be his own character warranting his own name. It would not be Chase Arcanum


 

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Well guys It's Doesn't cut it, you are right, There a lot of our people playing it. It the only game right now with A good Costume Creator.

Where Someone can be a Furrie, Dragon, Demon or a Super Hero, Right now it's the only mno where we can call home.

I need to keep my toons alive, my Ideas Alive and Only Co can do it. Coh can never be replace by another Super Hero Online game, this is a fact.

A lot of us Also Rp, we enjoy this game because it helps with it, this Game Grows on you over time, to be frank, I don't think you guys gave Co a real try, stick with it for a while.

I Also think A lot of us are trying badly to find another replacement to feel the Void and This game seem to be helping a little.

I love all you Coh Players and I mean even the jerks that bad Mouth me in the Past.

I want to stick with Co, because of my Virtue Server Players and Coh Players are over there.

I Want to play another Super Heroes game with you guys again, because i am into Super Hero Stuff and I no some of you guys are also into it.

I am not good with Rp, I try it before, But I love Virtue. When I was on Justice Server, It was filled with too many Elites Jerks and then I try Freedom Server, too Many Farmers, Noobs and Pvper.

Only Virtue Server Welcome me with open Arms, who are Kind and Caring people, Who are Smart and also clever. You guys Accept everyone, even a Misfit Depressing guy like myself. So When I found out Virtue players are Heading over to Co, I went over at first to check it out and Virtue was waiting for me with Open Arms.

Bad Mouth Rpers and Virtue all you want, and Bad mouth Co as well, but note this, not everyone hate Co.


Never play another NcSoft game, If you feel pride for our game, then it as well, I Superratz am Proud of all of you Coh people, Love, Friendship will last for a lifetime.

Global:@Greenflame Ratz
Main Toons:Super Ratz, Burning B Radical, Green Flame Avenger, Tunnel Ratz, Alex Magnus

 

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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast View Post
Tried it again...still don't like it. Three strikes you are out.

I get that there are CO apologists on these forums, but it's not for everyone...
Toast,

I take exception to your term "CO apologist". My wife and I have been part of Paragon City for over six years...nearly seven...and I'm playing CO because it's giving me the best superheroic bang for my buck now that CoX is shutting down.

I'm not going to apologize for that. Nor would I expect anyone who wants to be part of DCUO to apologize for their choice, or you to apologize for the fact that you don't like CO.

Some people drive Fords, others drive Chevys. Doesn't make one better than the other, and I doubt anyone apologizes for their choice.


- Green Lantern
"Say, Jim...woo! That's a bad out-FIT!" - Superman: The Movie

Me 'n my posse: http://www.citygametracker.com/site/....php?user=5608

 

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Originally Posted by GreenLantern68 View Post
If you want to play in a console-based video game environment, sure.
Which pretty much describes most MMOs now, unfortunately. So much that I dread any new MMO releases.

Eh, I think it's time to just put up my cape (or, in Seismecca's case, Leather Jacket? ) roleplaying super villains was fun, and I'd rather not spoil those memories by having to suffer through a game I don't particularly enjoy just because it has the same subject matter. I'd much rather spend my time waiting for Star Citizen.


 

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QR

For many of us, CO isn't going to work because we still love CoH and no other game is CoH - not will it ever be.

That's a bit "obvious statement is obvious" (obviously) but it's something I think we're forgetting a lot of the time. The reason CoH remained right up there with CO and DCUO in the field is because it did Superhero MMO very very well. And not much is going to come close to that.

I've had a couple of goes at CO. It's ok. It's pretty good, taken in isolation - it does some things better than CoH, IMO. Travel powers for example - but then the jet packs and rocket boards and beast travel powers really took care of that from CoH's POV. But in terms of game play and teaming it is [expletive deleted]

That's only my opinion and maybe I will revisit it some time in the future but for now I'm playing other games.

But if I have any advice it's simply this: Don't hate CO because it's not CoH. Hate it because it's not very good.



"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

 

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I won't say "its not very good."

CO inherited much of what was planned for MUO.

In one interview, Jack was asked something to the effect of "how he plans to convince City of Heroes players to leave for the new game" and he said "I don't want you to. I want you to play both!"

That was before the split, but it seems clear that many of the early design choices were intended to differentiate CO FROM CoH so that people could play both and have a different experience in each. The artstyle and world was themed to be more golden age comic book. The play was decidedly more "console." It focused on fewer "team instance" areas, where CoH had them a-plenty.

In some ways, it "tried to be different" so hard that it took strategies that were inferior to its big sister just so it COULD BE different.


 

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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
But if I have any advice it's simply this: Don't hate CO because it's not CoH. Hate it because it's not very good.
I hate it because it's awful and should be looked at as a list of what not to do. Again, IMO,YMMV.


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