The CO Community & You


afocks

 

Posted

r/e costume creator:

My extreme discontent with the options available to a new player have been assuaged by getting above whatever pointless level requirement they imposed on the 'full' tailor. Checked the tailor with Earth 2 Goat last night (he's level 8 now I think) and found all the options necessary to re-create him. Now he looks great.

From running around the game a few days CO's costume strengths are mech/power armor types and non-humans. I really dislike how straight up human superheroes turn out, but it has some really nice options for robots, animals, demons, etc.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

I've played CO off and on over the past few years (I was actually in the F&F alpha; a friend of mine has a t-shirt won during that), and will probably step back in to check it out again soon since they were right in the early stages of a shift to the specialization trees when I got tired of playing this last time. That was, incidentally, to go check out Tera for a while; yet another wonderful example of a good idea that just didn't work out as well as it should have.

I don't consider it a bad game or anything, but I've never found it nearly as solid as CoX. It starts off with a more technically-advanced costume creator... then proceeded to give me nowhere near the variety of items as CoX does, even with a multitude of costume packs. It does do layering very well, however; I made some really neat-looking armors in the game by tossing things on top of one another. Body shapes are more varied, but the default "human" look is... well, it apparently defaults to Mr. Fantastic. Shortening arms, shrinking hands and lengthening legs is usually the first thing I have to do for any character.

Combat is interesting, in a way, with enemies dropping what basically amount to immediate-use inspirations. I was not too terribly fond of the equipment system (or crafting!) but it's gotten less broken over time. Unlike CoX, where I have a variety of attacks I cycle depending on recharge and available endurance-- or basically just recharge if I've built my character to my tastes at incarnate levels-- CO always seemed to be about finding two to three specific attacks and *breaking them like it was my job*. Of course, some came pre-broken, which made that part easy. Some characters had to use their basic attacks, others... well, I don't know if it's still possible, but I had a character who mostly used two attacks against almost any spawn: a targeting, following-with-perk beam from the sky, and a charge, massive damage line of electricity. I didn't use basic attacks; I didn't need them. I could recharge using another single-target damaging attack if I wanted. That was my biggest problem with it; while it was fun, it always felt a little less interesting that I was basically trying to make a couple of really important attack picks then figure out what all else I would be taking to make that character as survivable as possible.

Also, teaming was non-existent as others have mentioned. There's no reason to for most of the game. You could build a character capable of soloing the hardest modes of certain instances while leveling because how brutally powerful layering defenses was. I'm unaware of how possible this is under the new system.

Additionally, I found myself wishing I could turn off the talking animations in cutscenes. It reminded me of Mr. Ed. I ended up making most of my characters either robots or covering their faces or making them somewhat horrific to avoid how unappealing most faces were in the game.

Teleport is probably my favorite power in the game though, even if people have off and on considered it broken. I just wish I didn't have to waste already-scarce points on speeding up travel powers in general. Also the animation for flight looks painfully wooden.

I'm also not sure why all of the 28-35 content feels about as interesting as punching myself in the face, either; content up to that point isn't bad, and the Vibora Bay crisis is *great*, but I think I was sick of Monster Island and Lemuria within the first five minutes of either.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
r/e costume creator:

My extreme discontent with the options available to a new player have been assuaged by getting above whatever pointless level requirement they imposed on the 'full' tailor. Checked the tailor with Earth 2 Goat last night (he's level 8 now I think) and found all the options necessary to re-create him. Now he looks great.

From running around the game a few days CO's costume strengths are mech/power armor types and non-humans. I really dislike how straight up human superheroes turn out, but it has some really nice options for robots, animals, demons, etc.

yeah, the gated costume creator sucks, but once you get it once, you dont have to again.

What sucks even more is they seem to be changing it (for the better) so everyone seems to unlock it at a different time. For instance, I unlocked it by finishing the tutorial, but my friend (that joined a couple days later) had to level to 10.


And even then, the CC does a horrible job at providing the knowledge of pieces you can have.

For instance, did you know you can wear bracers with tights/skin?

I didn't. Because it wasn't an option until I switched over to jackets and back again.

I've been playing for a week and I'm still finding pieces tucked away in categories that make NO SENSE.




And the robot/beast thing doesn't bother me since CoH was the same way (maybe minus the beasts).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyver View Post
I've been playing for a week and I'm still finding pieces tucked away in categories that make NO SENSE.
This was my main complaint with it the first time around- really poorly organized, and what organization it does have is largely counter-intuitive.

But you know what?
As the game doesn't seem alt-friendly I don't mind. If I'm going to be mostly playing one character all the way through, having to dig around the editor for stuff will extend my interest in the design process.

Quote:
And the robot/beast thing doesn't bother me since CoH was the same way (maybe minus the beasts).
CoH provided a more than ample supply of ingredients to sate my thirst for straight up cape n' tights Silver Age characters. And that isn't really my complaint with CO anyway, my issue is with the proportions & 'look' of human standard characters. Even with extensive slider manipulation human characters look weird and plastic-y to me. And the face & hair options are almost criminally bad.

But no biggie, I only have two character slots so I'll just stick with the Goat for now, he looks fine. If I get a wild hair to fill the second slot I'll go with one of my stable of cyborg/robot characters.


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
Hey, now. Punching with darkness is pretty darned awesome.

Think of it as something like punching someone right in the soul.
I used to love being a superhero, and then I took an arrow to the Id.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
I used to have a character with Gigabolt: Death Arc. I remember picking up Death Arc and going into an open mission on Monster Island, and I suddenly had a zillion animal people on me all at once. So I spammed Gigabolt and suddenly the mission was over and I had top score. People who had played through each step of the mission were miles behind me in points.

I actually did feel a bit bad. I think Death Arc's been nerfed since then. It was way too good. Better even than mini mines were during the first month live.
For me the biggest what-the-hell-devs aspect of that was that you could gain energy from it. So, a spammable AoE that builds energy you could use to spam AoEs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
You're trying to reason with someone whose reflexive reaction to any MMO other than CoH is to make insulting generalizations about the devs, players, and game.


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Posted

Will be honest if I play it will be to follow you guys - the game is very clunkly - however I do like the RPG so I was a bit disappointed may have to give it a go again.


 

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
For me the biggest what-the-hell-devs aspect of that was that you could gain energy from it. So, a spammable AoE that builds energy you could use to spam AoEs.
There were several powers (especially AoEs, weirdly) that acted like that. In fact, I had/have (I don't even know if they work anymore) multiple characters who basically spammed AoEs or single target attacks that returned more energy than I would need to use for most fights. I know Electric and Fire were two big ones for the whole "what energy builder?" thing. My Fire character didn't even *have* dedicated single target attacks, just a ton of AoEs which worked so well I never needed to use anything else. Plus, with Presence being useful for Fire I also had a strong shield and heals. In open world missions I'd not infrequently end up tanking the boss in spite of the fact I was specifically using the stat which was supposed to reduce aggro when used in Avenger mode. Then I'd stay in Avenger mode to tank it, because hey, I have unlimited endurance and this powerful heal and bubble right here...

It was one of the few characters which felt like a CoH character, oddly. On steroids. Playing at -1 when I'm a +3 incarnate. More amusingly, it wasn't even a particularly optimized character, I'd seen much stronger.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chonos View Post
There were several powers (especially AoEs, weirdly) that acted like that. In fact, I had/have (I don't even know if they work anymore) multiple characters who basically spammed AoEs or single target attacks that returned more energy than I would need to use for most fights. I know Electric and Fire were two big ones for the whole "what energy builder?" thing. My Fire character didn't even *have* dedicated single target attacks, just a ton of AoEs which worked so well I never needed to use anything else. Plus, with Presence being useful for Fire I also had a strong shield and heals. In open world missions I'd not infrequently end up tanking the boss in spite of the fact I was specifically using the stat which was supposed to reduce aggro when used in Avenger mode. Then I'd stay in Avenger mode to tank it, because hey, I have unlimited endurance and this powerful heal and bubble right here...
I was very bad with BurningChick in the zombie PvP map.

I'd deliberately get defeated so I that I could come back as a zombie and light up my former teammates. There was a combination of fire AoEs / advantages that would cascade together into The Fiery Apocalypse at little or no energy cost with people locked in the "get the flames off me!" animation. With regen, the healing robots, and a self heal, it could get silly.

I only did it 2 or 3 times, but I think I caused a flurry of inflammatory, so to speak, posts on the forum.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningChick View Post
I was very bad with BurningChick in the zombie PvP map.

I'd deliberately get defeated so I that I could come back as a zombie and light up my former teammates. There was a combination of fire AoEs / advantages that would cascade together into The Fiery Apocalypse at little or no energy cost with people locked in the "get the flames off me!" animation. With regen, the healing robots, and a self heal, it could get silly.

I only did it 2 or 3 times, but I think I caused a flurry of inflammatory, so to speak, posts on the forum.
It worked out pretty well in zombie PvP on either side; plenty of distractions if you were a zombie, plenty of targets if you were still alive. However, given that it relied on killing things fast and people in level-capped PvP were somewhat absurdly sturdy while still putting out roughly the same amount of damage it didn't work out anywhere near as well in, say, Stronghold.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
You can actually change this, I believe. There ought to be a "neutral" and a "heroic" stance as alternatives to the horrid, grating "vixen" stance.
None of the poses struck me as appealing. The vixen stance seemed back-breaking, the neutral was too slouched, and heroic didn't suit the character well.

Though I shouldn't complain too much... Walk isn't suitable for the vast majority of my female characters here.


 

Posted

First and foremost...thanks to the community there for the offer of acceptance. And yes....they're serious about it. I've made a character there.

However...the graphics look like 80yearoldass. And pretty much all the costume options are direct ripoffs from here. Which is to say a good thing...but when combined with those godawful graphics.....no.

Also...the tutorial....I must suckhairydonkeyballs because I cannot solo the last mission's bad guy. When everyone else seems to be able to.

Here...powersets galore. There....railroad "builds" with powers that -must- be taken or you've a gimped build.

For the most part....I can get past the graphics. And...if I want a superhero game..it's CO or the cesspool that is DCUO or Marvel's attempt.
No thanks.

So....bitter pill that it is, I'll take it. Until something else comes along.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Technically, shurikens aren't part of Claws specifically. They're a "shared" power that gets unlocked by any Martial Arts power from any of the subsets. That's quite ingenious, actually. It's like if, say, I could unlock Golden Dragonfly if I took enough powers from Martial Arts and Street Justice. It removes the need to have, say, a zillion versions of Build Up like we have here, since powers can be shared between sets.

In fact, from what I've seen, there are about as many shared powers in Martial Arts as there are specific ones.
I understand Shuriken is part of the overall Martial Arts set. What I meant is, I didn't recall being able to make that sort of mix (Claws Melee attacks + a mechanically related ranged attack - as opposed to say force blast thrown in) from the distant past time I played CO. In other words, I just totally forgot about shuriken.

Really though, if it didn't come out in my first post, my overall impressions of CO weigh towards positive. I have criticisms, but they aren't enough to keep me from playing CO, and I think the combat mechanics and powers are major strengths of the game. One of the things that I think is also nice, which you mention, is that I don't have to take mechanically redundant powers because of cooldown. That's neat and I have enjoyed that aspect quite a bit (not to mention just not having the cooldown).

Aside from that, I have to agree with others about how human characters look in the game. The NPCs generally don't look very good. Not due to lack of realism, but just unpleasant proportioning even taking into account that it's supposed to be cartoonish. The faces are the worst, though. This could be helped significantly by giving more control over the facial geometry. Maybe not as complex as Saints Row 3 (I found it OK, but I imagine a lot of people wouldn't care for it), but at least something more in that direction would help.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercykilling View Post

Also...the tutorial....I must suckhairydonkeyballs because I cannot solo the last mission's bad guy. When everyone else seems to be able to.
figuring out when to spam BLOCK seems to be the key to effective combat in CO.

Lame, but.... *shrug*


The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

The positive things I've heard about CO's community over the past week and a half have convinced me that, if I can't have my CoH, I will at least download CO and give it a whirl.

I'm not about to walk out the door voluntarily, though.


My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I used to love being a superhero, and then I took an arrow to the Id.
That has to sting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
For me the biggest what-the-hell-devs aspect of that was that you could gain energy from it. So, a spammable AoE that builds energy you could use to spam AoEs.
It was kind of gloriously fun for a little bit. And then nothing was a challenge, at least in the world or personal instances. Still had trouble in lairs.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercykilling View Post
Also...the tutorial....I must suckhairydonkeyballs because I cannot solo the last mission's bad guy. When everyone else seems to be able to.
I had to recover several times when I played through this new streamlined tutorial for the first time (at least once because the pop-up that was telling me about blocking or something prevented me from blocking until I made it go away), which I never had to do before. He didn't get back any HP between my defeats, though, so I eventually wore him down. You used to get equipment in the tutorial, and it seems to me like the encounter at the end is balanced towards you having the gear.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Some more help for you guys in the costume department.

I have put out a call on their costume thread for help in making proportional templates that more closely match the classic COH basic figures ( Male / Female / Huge ).

I've got some responses saying they'll be working on it. But in the meantime, someone reposted some already made templates that were made a few months ago.

OK, before we continue, I need to explain something about how the CO CC saves costumes.

It does not save it as a text file like COH does. Instead, it saves it as an actual PICTURE in Jpeg format with the costume info "baked" into the code. And then this image is saved in the screenshot folder where your regular screenshots go to.

In order to use the templates, you need to download the picture in the link, then go to:

(Wherever your Champions Online folder is - Mine is in the Steam folder)

-----Champions Online
----------live
---------------screenshots

And dump the picture into that folder.

Then start your game. Go to the costume creator, and at the bottom, you'll see a button marked "LOAD" and one marked "SAVE" (similar to ours).

Click "LOAD" and look for the name of the template in the menu. Click on it and bring it into the main viewer.

Voila! Now you have a pre-made proportional template that you can modify!

Here's the links in question:

Templates

Quote:
Young Adult/Average - For the hero with a less-than-stellar physique. Good for agile heroes, young heroes, and citizen forms.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400403546.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400403672.jpg

Child - Adapted from Smackwell's child templates from like 2 years back. Slight tweaks included, such as more realistic waist-hip ratios and whatnot.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400403771.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400403808.jpg

Fatty - For the hero with a much less-than-stellar physique. Note that the female version of this one is highly experimental and I don't find it satisfactory.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400404350.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400404600.jpg

Paragon - Tall, well-muscled, but still of a fairly balanced proportion. Good for the archtypical hero with super strength.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400403879.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400403998.jpg

Androgynous - Female skeleton, more masculine proportions. Use it to create... Something.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400404136.jpg

Strongman - Kind of like the paragon, but with arms like hams.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._381105434.jpg

Dwarf - If you want to play a comparatively short person from a fantasy realm, this should provide a worthy starting spot.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400405565.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11..._400405785.jpg

Keep in mind, these initial templates were not made with the classic COX look in mind. But there are people working on them now!

Here's the URL for the forum thread in question:

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...41#post2413041

EDIT: Fixed Broken Links

FURTHER EDIT: To add the Thread Link


 

Posted

Yeah. BLOCK. Which.....I'm still going WTF about. It's like.....they wanted to make it as different as they could and harder!!

Also...I've noticed that just about every costume piece is a direct port from here. They've got -celestial armor- pieces, for crapton's sake!!

Oh. And just passed by a billboard earlier that could've come STRAIGHT from this game except the name "Chris Jenkins" isn't on it.

It's a shoddy copy.....but...it might very well be all there is for a long time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercykilling View Post
Also...the tutorial....I must suckhairydonkeyballs because I cannot solo the last mission's bad guy. When everyone else seems to be able to.
Black Talon is designed to teach you blocking, so everything he does takes a ton of damage off you. He's still way too tough for a tutorial enemy, I agree, but I don't think he has any attacks aside from his charge-ups. As far as I remember, he has three or four. There's that ground-targeted AoE that you're supposed to walk out of, there's the hold you're supposed to block, I think, and the missile swarm that does 3/4 of your health in damage if you don't block it. And he likes to fire the missile swarm immediately after the hold so you CAN'T block.

That, and Defender is crap about dealing with the reinforcements. My guess is they're what's killing you the majority of the time. That was my problem, at least.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercykilling View Post
Yeah. BLOCK. Which.....I'm still going WTF about. It's like.....they wanted to make it as different as they could and harder!!

Also...I've noticed that just about every costume piece is a direct port from here. They've got -celestial armor- pieces, for crapton's sake!!
Pretty sure CO's celestial armor pieces predate CoH's. In any case, CO's always had a seeming bias towards armored/mech looks, and actually I think CoH has moved in that direction over the last coupla years.

So-called normal heroes look better here, though, IMO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercykilling View Post
Yeah. BLOCK. Which.....I'm still going WTF about. It's like.....they wanted to make it as different as they could and harder!!

Also...I've noticed that just about every costume piece is a direct port from here. They've got -celestial armor- pieces, for crapton's sake!!

Oh. And just passed by a billboard earlier that could've come STRAIGHT from this game except the name "Chris Jenkins" isn't on it.

It's a shoddy copy.....but...it might very well be all there is for a long time.
I am fairly certain the celestial armor in CO predates the celestial armor in CoH by quite a bit

The block thing isn't just to be different - it is part of the process of making combat more active, similar to shifting endurance from a passive resource to be used and slowly recovered to something you manage more actively by recovering with your energy builder, block, and energy unlock. It also provides more leeway in terms of mob difficulty by giving players the means to control incoming damage and protect themselves from most status effects.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
Pretty sure CO's celestial armor pieces predate CoH's. In any case, CO's always had a seeming bias towards armored/mech looks, and actually I think CoH has moved in that direction over the last coupla years.

So-called normal heroes look better here, though, IMO.
They've added a lot of tights options in the store, which helps a lot. But yeah, I think CoH does the classic spandex look better.

And as far as it goes, I wish CO had more of CoH's costume sets because it's complicating my attempts to remake CoH characters in the game. Most of them end up being reinterpretations, at least visually. It's not a problem, but it could be better.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mercykilling View Post
Yeah. BLOCK. Which.....I'm still going WTF about. It's like.....they wanted to make it as different as they could and harder!!
Blocking is a pretty common mechanic among action games. CoH was never action-y enough for a superhero game to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
As far as I remember, he has three or four. There's that ground-targeted AoE that you're supposed to walk out of, there's the hold you're supposed to block, I think, and the missile swarm that does 3/4 of your health in damage if you don't block it. And he likes to fire the missile swarm immediately after the hold so you CAN'T block.
Pretty much. The problem I was running into was that Blocking didn't negate the Hold, but rather just allowed you to keep moving while you held the block waiting for the hold effect to wear off. If I released block before the hold wore off I was immediately having to shake off the hold. And he would often shoot the hold again before it wore off, meanwhile the missile volleys were doing a fair chunk of damage even when blocked.

Quote:
That, and Defender is crap about dealing with the reinforcements. My guess is they're what's killing you the majority of the time. That was my problem, at least.
In the original tutorial he gets taken out of the fight early and you were left to face Black Scorpion alone but there weren't any reinforcements. On the plus side, at least he only tells you to 'disable ALL the beacons' once - he used to repeat it incessantly.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
And as far as it goes, I wish CO had more of CoH's costume sets because it's complicating my attempts to remake CoH characters in the game. Most of them end up being reinterpretations, at least visually. It's not a problem, but it could be better.
I was irritated by the apparent lack of a decent kung fu top (or even a gi with sleeves) while I was trying to recreate Tenzhi. I believe that may be why I didn't already have a version of him in the game.


Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound