I don't feel VIP at all
By
AcceleratorRay,
Posted on: 2012-08-22 15:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I would tally it up if I had the desire to participate in those options.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
You're absolutely right about unlocking stuff as a premium means you always have it. If I could afford to buy enough points to unlock the whole shebang I probably would... but.... that's a great deal of points. I simply can't make such an up front investment. What I CAN do is subscribe and save up points and slowly but surely perma-unlock an item here or there that I already get with VIP or use those points on new stuff.
And even if I did unlock everything I'd still lose incarnate content, my base functionality which I value highly, and there's several costume bits that seem intrinsically tied to VIP and dont have a buyable option in the market (they aren't anything fancy or part of sets they just don't seem to be available on my 2nd account which is premium). At the end of the day though... tally that total up... is the person who pays to unlock the whole shebang really getting more for less? |
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That's doubly weird because auras cost 80 points each. |
Originally Posted by Ironik
Maybe there's some way to unlock these for free, but the game is telling me they cost 160 points each. Most of these were auras we had before the switch to Freedom.
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Is this shot from a character that has not done the aura mission?
Have you purchased the account-wide aura unlock for all characters so you don't need to do the mission? I've purchased 10-11 auras total over the past year, but all the others have been unlocked all along.
You can unlock all otherwise "free" auras (that is, any auras you had access to prior to Freedom) for all characters without needing to do the mission, though:
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Preach it. Buying the cape and aura unlock made me love character creation all the more. |
Originally Posted by Zortel
PS: The Aura unlock and Cape unlock? First things I bought from the store. Being able to make a character with a cape and the Glow eye aura from level 1? For any character on that account? For the low-low price of 160pp*2? A-freaking-mazing.
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Fair enough. Everything I say is an opinion, no doubt about that. But I'm backing my opinion up with facts about how PPs are distributed. You can dismiss everything I say by calling it my opinion, but you can't dismiss the facts on which my opinion is formed.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Sorry, but you are wrong. I say that as a factual statement. You are wrong, because you are trying to pass your OPINION off as fact.
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But you are right that it's a subjective decision. I don't value having many slots on all servers because I only play on one server. I already purchased Going Rogue and CoV, so I'd still have them as Premium, they don't factor in. I don't value most of the costume bundles. I am being given a lot of stuff for free that I do not care about. Meanwhile, for things that I do care about, like new powersets, I am expected to pay extra. (Yes, there's a stipend, but we've established that the stipend is half as effective as Premium purchases.)
Because of what I subjectively value, VIP is a lousy deal compared to Premium. I am not the only player who feels that way.
Anyone who says that's wrong is trying to pass THEIR opinion off as fact. You can't change my subjective opinion of how I'm being treated as a VIP subscriber. Only Paragon studios can do that by improving the VIP reward program.
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Absolutely. But the key point is that some things you see as a problem are completely different for me. We are looking at the same facts but you dislike them and I like them.|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Fair enough. Everything I say is an opinion, no doubt about that. But I'm backing my opinion up with facts about how PPs are distributed. You can dismiss everything I say by calling it my opinion, but you can't dismiss the facts on which my opinion is formed.
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| But you are right that it's a subjective decision. I don't value having many slots on all servers because I only play on one server. |
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| Because of what I subjectively value, VIP is a lousy deal compared to Premium. I am not the only player who feels that way. |
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| Anyone who says that's wrong is trying to pass THEIR opinion off as fact. You can't change my subjective opinion of how I'm being treated as a VIP subscriber. Only Paragon studios can do that by improving the VIP reward program. |
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Just to note, Freedom's been out 11 months, not "at least a year".|
Originally Posted by _Hush_
... freedom been out at least a year for them fix problems within the PPM system.
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Granted, that doesn't mean they shouldn't have their ducks in a row by now, but for the most part everyone I know who subs consistently gets their points on pretty much the same day each month. Folks who sub 'from time to time' get their points within a few days of resubbing. Been this way for months. If your account's still screwed up, tell support to fix it. They now have the tools to do so.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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that's weird- maybe /bug it?|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I should have been clearer -- these are from my L50 namesake, Ironik, and he has run the Aura mission. I ran it years ago to get a "Vegas Elvis" look for a Halloween costume. When I went to use the Smoke effect for damaged battle armor, it showed up locked.
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I was able to access auras with no problem on my guys who'd unlocked them even before I dropped the points for the level 1 unlock.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
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I wonder if something funky is still going on with regards to the updated cape mission. It reset a few characters of mine. Try going to the aura chick and seeing if you can run it again.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I should have been clearer -- these are from my L50 namesake, Ironik, and he has run the Aura mission. I ran it years ago to get a "Vegas Elvis" look for a Halloween costume. When I went to use the Smoke effect for damaged battle armor, it showed up locked.
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Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Fair enough. They have to thread the needle. Ironblade, I think you and I are in complete and amicable disagreement. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Tiny change to that statement: Only Paragon Studios can do that by *CHANGING* the VIP reward program. If the current scheme is preferred by a majority of the players, then a change might cost more players than it brings in. That wouldn't be an 'improvement'.
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It is more cost effective to buy points in bulk then pay a monthly sub.
Some people can't grasp this or cling to minor perks as being "worth it".
One thing I don't get... if the people who think VIP isn't worth it and that they get more out of staying premium and just buying points to unlock what they want... what's the problem with doing just that?
I mean isn't it good that you HAVE that option? That you can pay piecemeal for only that which you find value and not have a consistent monthly fee to worry about?
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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+1.|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I don't care if CoH takes my recommendations, I only care if the game is fun. I feel they're going in the wrong direction. But that's another issue -- right now let's focus on the original question, about whether VIP status is 'worth it' or not.
Look at the analyses earlier in this thread. There are 8 pay-for powersets, including Bio Armor which is coming soon. There are another 7 powersets given free to VIPs. If you buy those 8 powersets as a Tier-9 VIP it will cost you 6400 points, out of the 6600 you get over the course of a year. 200 points left over; go buy yourself a few costume scraps. If you buy all 15 powersets as a Premium player it will cost you 12000 points. If the Premium player spends the same amount of money as the VIP they will have 13560 points -- 1560 left over. That's almost two more powersets, or at least two costume sets, or I don't know how many SSA arcs. The Premium player makes out like a bandit. What balances VIP status is the monthly tokens, Incarnate content, SSAs and superbases. But after Tier 9 the monthly tokens no longer matter. I still haven't spent all of mine, and I don't feel like gambling on sketchy 'super packs'. If Incarnate content does not appeal to you then VIP status gives you nothing. (You can purchase the SSAs off the additional points you get from going Premium.) Superbases are the only thing I treasure as a VIP, and I can't even invite my own characters into a super group; as useful as it is, it's a bad and abandoned system. If they truly valued VIPs, they'd even up the rewards a little. Doubling the PP stipend would bring them in line with Premium, but even a 50% raise would be more fair. *Or* give more of the powersets to VIPs for free -- no, they shouldn't get all powersets for free, but they darn well should get more than half. Right now VIPs get about half as much purchasable content as Premium players do for the same amount of money, plus some fixed content that may or may not appeal to them. That's a terrible deal. For those who have been loyal to this game for years, it's downright insulting. If they're trying to entice people to become VIP, they're doing it wrong. |
Not only that, but as time progresses it becomes a worse deal for VIP's.
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Not if going Premium means that I lose all my characters, and all the empty server slots to make new ones in.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
+1.
Not only that, but as time progresses it becomes a worse deal for VIP's. |
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Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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I consider being able to maintain my base's upkeep as more than a "minor perk" - and this is VIP only|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It is more cost effective to buy points in bulk then pay a monthly sub.
Some people can't grasp this or cling to minor perks as being "worth it". |
I consider incarnate advancement/content more than a "minor perk" - and this is VIP only
I consider the incredible number of character slots I get as a VIP as more than a "minor perk" - I suppose spending an extraordinary number of points can buy this
I consider the server transfer tokens (even if I use them just to get a bootleg name change >_>) more than a "minor perk" - you can spend points to buy this as needed.
I consider access to the beta server a minor perk but a really nice one - and this is VIP only
I consider full forum access a minor perk - and this is VIP only
What I think is "worth it" may not be the same as you. But that doesn't mean I am making a poor choice. The "cost effectiveness" of buying in bulk isn't disputed. But why spend those points on things I get with my sub when I can spend them on things I DON'T get with my sub? Why not pay the sub over time and simply use the monthly stipend to slowly but surely unlock things without spending any large amount of cash up front?
Buying in bulk is clearly cost effective. You get the most bang for your buck. But this isn't an And/Or situation. I pay a sub... AND when I have the funds available I'll drop 100 bucks for points because it IS cost effective to do this. But the idea of dropping that hundred and then blowing all the points just to unlock stuff I already have as a VIP and then drop my sub losing those "minor perks" that I actually find value in just doesn't make much sense to me.
If paying carte blanche and eschewing a sub works for you then great! You have that option and I am glad you do! But don't assume that those of us who choose to subscribe are stupid for doing so or somehow self deluded. We know exactly what we're paying for.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
You're forgetting the twelve slots per server. You start with two. Not two per server, but two. I dropped to Premium for a while and I couldn't deal with only having two characters, so I went VIP again.
While I'm not a fan of iTrials (my computer can't take it) I do enjoy the solo incarnate content. I'd miss that.
I'd also miss all those 7 extra sets I'd have to buy, especially Time Manipulation.
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While others think that belittling VIPs will get them more free stuff.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Some people can't grasp this or cling to minor perks as being "worth it".
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Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
Wow - I just deleted about 1000 words of silly ranting.
TLDR version - I don't like CoH:Freedom. It is my opinion that the Dev team needs to do the following:
1. Encourage Freebies and Premiums to be VIP. There should be a more compelling reason to be VIP other than iTrials and Dark Astoria. (once a vip is on tier 9 - if all their 50's are "done" with badges and tier 4'd on all incarnate slots - why be vip when leveling the lowbies? )
2. I would much rather pay 20-25 a month and get all the goodies on the market included in my VIP sub. It's annoying to have to bring up the silly market to "buy" stuff with points. I know that the way it is now, I don't have to "buy" anything if I don't want to - and I know that most are thrilled to have a choice. I would just rather it be take from my credit card once a year or every 6 months and be done with it. (and yes, I'm sure that's probably just me)
3. Focus more on the quality (maturity)of the writing and the quality of the graphics. My characters look too much like they belong in a cartoon instead of looking real, and the stories all read like they're for a 14 year old.
So much for TLDR, eh? lol
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Technically, the stories can't be more mature than about 14. The game has a T rating.
As for the character quality, that is baked into every facet of the game. Dink once said that altering the base character model in any way would bring doomy dooms of doom for the entire game.
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I like how you frame this as if you've got the objective truth on the matter, and VIP players are confused, or perhaps deluded into thinking the "minor perks" are "worth it."|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
It is more cost effective to buy points in bulk then pay a monthly sub.
Some people can't grasp this or cling to minor perks as being "worth it". |
I like the stuff I get for being a VIP, which includes access to the tier 9 costume sets, access to all of the existing content, access to incarnate powers, 12 slots per server automatically with a maximum of 48 (as opposed to 2 slots period with a maximum of 36 per server). I tried being premium for a week and I have been VIP ever since.
If it's worth it to me, then it's worth it. That has no bearing on whether it's worth it to you or anyone else. It doesn't mean I'm wrong, because I do enjoy playing. It does mean that blanket statements such as yours are often wrong.
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You missed the part where it'd take around 60,000 points to buy an equivalent number of server slots. It would take many years for it to become "better" if you factor just that one extra piece in (and even then, VIP will continue to retain perks that Preems can't get).|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
+1.
Not only that, but as time progresses it becomes a worse deal for VIP's. |
Oh hey, I just got an email saying my sub lapsed (while doing an iTrial with my freshly 50+1 Peacebringer!
)! If I wasn't enjoying working through the Incarnate content so much, I'd probably let my VIP status lapse for a week or so (I'm about to become very busy). With how things are going, I'll probably re-sub sometime tomorrow, and then just not have much time to play for a while.Edit: No pic and no signature! I'm not sure if I'll be able to manage to wait until tomorrow!
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I can see that some of the powersets that V.I.P have to pay for shouldn't have been released as a paid for option.
Nature Affinity for example fills in a spot that we've been missing, we've had Plant Control, but no plant based support to go with it. Likewise if they ever add a storm/air control.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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How does a customer decide what should have been a free set what should be a paid set? I don't get this?
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
I can see that some of the powersets that V.I.P have to pay for shouldn't have been released as a paid for option.
Nature Affinity for example fills in a spot that we've been missing, we've had Plant Control, but no plant based support to go with it. Likewise if they ever add a storm/air control. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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That's easy!|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
How does a customer decide what should have been a free set what should be a paid set? I don't get this?
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First take a look at the powersets... is there one or more you really want? Those go in the "free" pile!
Then look at the rest... meh those can go in the "pay" pile.
That's how anyone who complains about which power sets are free which aren't wants it to be. Unfortunately they can't all agree on what should be free and what should be pay so they decide ALL of them should be free or at the very least all of them should be included in VIP.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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This post is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
That's easy!
First take a look at the powersets... is there one or more you really want? Those go in the "free" pile! Then look at the rest... meh those can go in the "pay" pile. That's how anyone who complains about which power sets are free which aren't wants it to be. Unfortunately they can't all agree on what should be free and what should be pay so they decide ALL of them should be free or at the very least all of them should be included in VIP. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
You can say that's not the same thing if you like, since all those powers later became open to everyone through other means, but really it is:
When a power set is brand new, there is usually a premium for getting it.
My point about CoV being free was to point out that proliferation happened after that.
I am not trying to say things were better content-wise prior to Freedom, however. I much prefer it now.
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