I don't feel VIP at all
By
AcceleratorRay,
Posted on: 2012-08-22 15:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
I'm sorry, how exactly is when and how you make your purchase decisions the fault of the developers?|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I buy yearly subscriptions, so I only need to make that decision once per year. Every year I agonize over it. Last year I hit the button after realizing that I didn't have anything else to play. That isn't always going to be true; in fact, some very tempting games are coming along in just a few months.
Right now I'm coasting on a decision I made last year. CoH needs to do something amazing to keep me, given the current state of affairs. I see no indication that they'll do that -- they *like* the way things are, even if it means losing players that have been here since launch, even if it means bleeding people away. All I can say is that no love affair lasts forever, and good luck to all. |
I hope you realize it's completely nonproductive to tell them you find everything they've done for the last year and a half to suck in terms of content, yet provide not even a hint about what this amazing thing they need to do to keep getting your money is.
I took a break for about an issue, even though my 6month sub was still active. I've come back to more than enough new things to do to keep me amused for months. I've enjoyed the new stuff I've seen, and from the look of the things coming soon, I'll have even more things that look fun.
It's clear you don't like what's been happening. That's an opinion. It doesn't change objective facts though. The fact you're not having fun with what they made doesn't mean it's not fun at all ever and they don't care about you (or people who have been here a long time). You're not a meta-example of a long term player.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Agreed. No new game is ever ever as good as whatever hype is attached to it, and it always takes a year or more for a new ongoing game to reach it's stride and get some decent additions to content to flesh it out.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And none of them with match up to CoH
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We've always had people looking at the Next Big Thing on these forums and claiming it's going to be so much awesome than playing here. Some of them leave and never come back. Most of them have though, and haven't very often had good things to say about their experiences with the brand new shiny.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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And some, like Bioware's galactic fanfiction catastrophe, take the concept of failrue to a new level |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Agreed. No new game is ever ever as good as whatever hype is attached to it, and it always takes a year or more for a new ongoing game to reach it's stride and get some decent additions to content to flesh it out.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I buy yearly subscriptions, so I only need to make that decision once per year. Every year I agonize over it. Last year I hit the button after realizing that I didn't have anything else to play. That isn't always going to be true; in fact, some very tempting games are coming along in just a few months.
Right now I'm coasting on a decision I made last year. CoH needs to do something amazing to keep me, given the current state of affairs. I see no indication that they'll do that -- they *like* the way things are, even if it means losing players that have been here since launch, even if it means bleeding people away. All I can say is that no love affair lasts forever, and good luck to all. |
It sounds like you almost did not resub last year, because you want to be somewhere different.
I pay my sub each month, and usually spend 30-45 more each month as well. You know why? Because for the cost of a starbucks coffee each day I have a crapton of fun. (try to go to starbucks every day of the month with a $60.00 budget.... you definitely will not feel VIP then lolololol)
I'm tier 9. I get 6600PP per year, which is about $73.50 worth of points (one $50, one $15 and the rest at 80pp per dollar). I spend that on new power and costume sets. I don't care much about incarnate or SSA content, or anything that requires me to hunt for a team that is interested in experiencing the content rather than just grind for reward. What I do care about is all the free character slots and the later Praetoria content.
For my "annual" (14 months actually) plan of $143.40 (lets round up to $145) I could buy 13560 points which would give me 11 reward tokens (vs 14), no transfers (vs 14) and excluding what I would get as a stipend for that time (7700 PP), have enough points to buy 17 character slots. But I still don't get access to the higher level Praetoria story content, lose the free to VIP powersets and I think there are a few free to VIP costume sets I would lose as well.
I can't see myself going premium anytime soon, I lose too much in the short term and I would be hesitant to spend more to permanently unlock all the content that comes free for VIP (this includes powersets, costumes, EATs). The powers that be did a good job deciding VIP perks and unlock costs that would keep a Tier 9 player like me paying to stay VIP.
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Maybe there's some way to unlock these for free, but the game is telling me they cost 160 points each. Most of these were auras we had before the switch to Freedom.|
Originally Posted by BellaStrega
Which one? When I came back to the game, all the auras that were available to me when I unsubbed were still available to me. The only auras that I've had to pay for are auras that didn't exist when I last played, during and after the launch of Going Rogue and issue 18.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
VIPs have to shell out some of their stipend to buy 3/4 of the new powersets that aren't free VIP access, but the VIPs still get free access to the new signature story arcs , new zone story arcs (as a Premium atm I can jump around and admire how pretty the new zones are but that's it until I purchase the zone content off the store), turn Reward Merits into Attuned Enhancements and of course the Incarnate System which you have to be a subscriber to access.
Oh, and you're not locked outta character slots. Luckily I was a decently long-term veteran so I had a nice stack of them I could apply.
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Needing only 500,000 subs to turn a profit they still have room to fall before reaching the "catastrophic" range. Currently numbers are anywhere from 1-1.3million subs, which puts it in the lower top ten of sales for that company.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And some, like Bioware's galactic fanfiction catastrophe, take the concept of failrue to a new level
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Having seen nothing but decline in subs since release there is reason to be concerned and without some kind of change the predicted catastrophe might come to fruition.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Below 1 million, actually - and the phrasing of the numbers statement makes it closer to 500k than 1 million |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Currently numbers are anywhere from 1-1.3million subs
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Some of those are the ones that you can unlock by doing the level 30 Aura mission on Red or Blue side. Or you can pay 160 paragon points to unlock all those level 30 mission auras for all characters from level 1, like the cape unlock.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Maybe there's some way to unlock these for free, but the game is telling me they cost 160 points each. Most of these were auras we had before the switch to Freedom.
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The other ones are from the Origins pack (That had 5 capes, 10 auras IIRC)
PS: The Aura unlock and Cape unlock? First things I bought from the store. Being able to make a character with a cape and the Glow eye aura from level 1? For any character on that account? For the low-low price of 160pp*2? A-freaking-mazing.
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Ah, you are right that was three months ago now they are reporting under 1 million. That is more than a 100,000 lost per month...WOW. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Below 1 million, actually - and the phrasing of the numbers statement makes it closer to 500k than 1 million
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I guess John Riccitiello's calling the performance disappointing is an indication of a coming catastrophe...Possibly.
So they are going to try to adopt a F2P model but have no expectations on what the response will be? Hmm, sounds like the proverbial throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks mentality.
I wonder who is going to get the bulk of the blame Bioware or EA?
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Unfortunately probably Bioware. The bulk of the complaints I've heard is that it is 8 pretty good single player games tied together, and the multiplayer aspects are all a lot weaker/bugged/outdated than they ought to be for a game with such a long development window.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Ah, you are right that was three months ago now they are reporting under 1 million. That is more than a 100,000 lost per month...WOW.
I guess John Riccitiello's calling the performance disappointing is an indication of a coming catastrophe...Possibly. So they are going to try to adopt a F2P model but have no expectations on what the response will be? Hmm, sounds like the proverbial throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks mentality. I wonder who is going to get the bulk of the blame Bioware or EA? |
Though on the other hand, a lot of the issues people had with server populations due to early poor choices about adding servers instead of capacity, I think falls on EA's head. Not sure though.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Correct. All basic auras show up as locked behind a pay wall for <30, unless you get the Account unlock or use the 1 shot unlock from Emp (or Astral, I forget) Merits. The rest of those were part of the Origins booster.
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Originally Posted by Zortel
Some of those are the ones that you can unlock by doing the level 30 Aura mission on Red or Blue side. Or you can pay 160 paragon points to unlock all those level 30 mission auras for all characters from level 1, like the cape unlock.
The other ones are from the Origins pack (That had 5 capes, 10 auras IIRC) PS: The Aura unlock and Cape unlock? First things I bought from the store. Being able to make a character with a cape and the Glow eye aura from level 1? For any character on that account? For the low-low price of 160pp*2? A-freaking-mazing. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Quote:
if you're too cheap to drop a few points on the level 1 unlock, you can access them the old fashioned way and run the aura mission.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
Maybe there's some way to unlock these for free, but the game is telling me they cost 160 points each. Most of these were auras we had before the switch to Freedom.
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As someone who often didn't bother with auras because unlocking them was a boring annoyance, I spent the points.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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They sold 2.3 million, 1.7 decied to sub past the first free month, then they fell to 1.3, and the latest statement said they have "well over" 500k - so, assuming that if they had 800-900k they would have phrased it as "almost/close to a million" to sound more impressive and reduce the damage, and they have around 600-700k now, it seems likely that the rate of lost subs is actually speeding up, which would be a good enough reason for them to hit the F2P panic button.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Ah, you are right that was three months ago now they are reporting under 1 million. That is more than a 100,000 lost per month...WOW.
I guess John Riccitiello's calling the performance disappointing is an indication of a coming catastrophe...Possibly. So they are going to try to adopt a F2P model but have no expectations on what the response will be? Hmm, sounds like the proverbial throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks mentality. I wonder who is going to get the bulk of the blame Bioware or EA? |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
A couple weeks ago I sent a lead developer a PM asking if Frozen Aura in Ice Manipulation could be reviewed for i24. And he answered. That day. That's better service than I get from my own IT department.
I felt like a VIP.
Oh, but I had to unlock an aura. I take it all back. (not!)
This is a good product with a great team.
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
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I think the things you mention are pretty accurate and because of that I think they both deserve a share of the blame.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
Unfortunately probably Bioware. The bulk of the complaints I've heard is that it is 8 pretty good single player games tied together, and the multiplayer aspects are all a lot weaker/bugged/outdated than they ought to be for a game with such a long development window.
Though on the other hand, a lot of the issues people had with server populations due to early poor choices about adding servers instead of capacity, I think falls on EA's head. Not sure though. |
The sad thing is so many people predicted this the second they saw the EA marriage.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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'When' I make my decision has nothing to do with the developers or the game.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
I'm sorry, how exactly is when and how you make your purchase decisions the fault of the developers?
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'How' I make my decision has everything to do with them. I'm weighing whether or not the game is worth my money for the next year. I'm trying to decide how much time I'm going to want to spend in it. If the game isn't worth the money or my time because of bad decisions by the developers, I'm not going to subscribe. Frankly, I don't think I got my money's worth in the past 12 months. The new DA is the only new content I've enjoyed, and even that was infuriatingly buggy at first.
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| I hope you realize it's completely nonproductive to tell them you find everything they've done for the last year and a half to suck in terms of content, yet provide not even a hint about what this amazing thing they need to do to keep getting your money is. |
Quote:
| It's clear you don't like what's been happening. That's an opinion. It doesn't change objective facts though. The fact you're not having fun with what they made doesn't mean it's not fun at all ever and they don't care about you (or people who have been here a long time). You're not a meta-example of a long term player. |
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If your stance is that being a VIP means "they implement my suggestions", then there are not many places that will make you feel you're a VIP. I earnestly wish you luck finding one, but I have very little faith in your chances of success.
It seems to me that your problem is as if you have a VIP membership at a Brazilian steakhouse when you're a vegetarian. As part of your membership you're offered all these neat steak offerings that others have to pay out-of-pocket to get, but you don't like steak.
Don't complain that you don't think the proprietors are running a bad VIP system. They aren't. You just happen to need to go somewhere that actually serves the food you want.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Unless you one very very lucky soul and was given a code to the different packs n stuff during like an event or when a pack was soon to come out (ex: animal pack) before all the individual items and packs went to the paragon market, those you had to buy too. Think of power sets in that sorta sence that not everyone needs to run out and get it, but will be there when you do get enough money
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Four new powersets were introduced with Going Rogue. If you did not purchase Going Rogue before Freedom, you had no access to those powersets.
At least 5 new powersets (The 5 MasterMind primaries) were introduced with CoV. Until the games were merged, if you didn't purchase CoV, you had no access to those powersets. I may have forgotten some other powersets that were released with CoV, but this is a good start on correcting the statement that powersets were included in the sub before Freedom. There were a handful of power sets released for free over the years, but they were few and far between outside of Expansions and Expanshalones. Now we've been getting a Free for VIP powerset with each full issue release and a new paid powerset each month or so. I think we've had more powersets released since the launch of Freedom than we ever got outside of Expansions and Expanshalones. As for getting a discount as a VIP? How many Paragon Points do you get each month included with your sub? 400? 550? That's at least a 50% discount on the cost of a powerset. Once they started adding things to the game via Boosters, Expanshalones (CoV) or Expansions (GR) we never got everything for free. |
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In regards to release of new powers I have to agree that this current model is better prior pre-freedom and better than waiting a whole year.
Everyone is under the premise that I have stashed points or I am wasting it upon costumes. Hell, I am lucky if I have the spare points necessary to buy a power. The system for rewarding your monthly points is borked beyond belief because you literally have no clue when you'll receive them and freedom been out at least a year for them fix problems within the PPM system.
I do like the current development team and as a player I enjoy what is being distributed within each issue ( well issue 23 seem kind of ok IMHO). I am looking forward to I24 personally .However, you shouldn't have to pay for powers as V.I.P period their apart of the game. Everything else doesn't matter me that's my only "gripe".
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If it was your IT department, they'd likely to tell you to just reboot it, and then hang up on you. When you call back to say 'no, that did not fix the giant hole in the monitor', they'd tell you to reboot it, and promptly hang up again.|
Originally Posted by corinna
That's better service than I get from my own IT department.
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IT departments are a Nemesis plot
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Unfortunately what you still fail to realize is not "all" of the powers are "part" of your sub. They said this would be the case BEFORE freedom and I can't understand why some people refuse to be real about this ish.|
Originally Posted by _Hush_
However, you shouldn't have to pay for powers as V.I.P period their apart of the game. Everything else doesn't matter me that's my only "gripe".
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You "do" get "some" powers free, the free ones, but not every single powerset is going to be nor should it be free. The reality is as shown "if" you did save all of your points you could have bought every single for pay powerset with the points that "are" part of your sub.
Take you head out of your bum and see what is there. Otherwise you just come off as some petulant child saying gimme gimme gimme.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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If we didn't have to pay for any of the new powersets, then, most likely, we wouldn't be getting them at the rate we are.|
Originally Posted by _Hush_
I do like the current development team and as a player I enjoy what is being distributed within each issue ( well issue 23 seem kind of ok IMHO). I am looking forward to I24 personally .However, you shouldn't have to pay for powers as V.I.P period their apart of the game. Everything else doesn't matter me that's my only "gripe".
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By definition, things we don't get with our subscription are things that the devs (and or the marketing team) expect to be underwritten, at least partially, by direct purchases. Said more plainly, they can staff up or make other investments that allow them produce more stuff more quickly because we (or some of us) are paying extra to get it, over and above our monthly subscription fee. So if there was no extra money in it for them (by virtue of including all of it in our base subscription), then they wouldn't have that extra income to staff up or invest in better tools, etc., and they couldn't pump out new stuff as often.
If they were not pumping stuff, such as new powersets, out at a rate higher than we saw before the model change, I think you'd have a fair point. But they are producing new things faster, while still giving VIPs "free" powersets at what looks to me like a higher rate than before.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork