I don't feel VIP at all
By
AcceleratorRay,
Posted on: 2012-08-22 15:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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First off, if that was true I wouldn't have to shell out for staff fighting then because like I mentioned previously I save my points for powers. I don't use my points unless otherwise. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Unfortunately what you still fail to realize is not "all" of the powers are "part" of your sub. They said this would be the case BEFORE freedom and I can't understand why some people refuse to be real about this ish.
You "do" get "some" powers free, the free ones, but not every single powerset is going to be nor should it be free. The reality is as shown "if" you did save all of your points you could have bought every single for pay powerset with the points that "are" part of your sub. Take you head out of your bum and see what is there. Otherwise you just come off as some petulant child saying gimme gimme gimme. |
I see what is there and it's system somewhat stinks. Not all powers release are top notch so if I am going pay for points and dish out the green it better be damn good.
I'd rather buy power sets I want, rather than wait forever for ones I might.
or to put it another way.
The Studio is more than likely going to work on more power sets anyway. The extra expense on my part (which has amounted to about 30 bucks and my monthly paragon points) is to ensure those get released sooner rather than later.
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There's an incredibly simple principle at play here. If you don't like it, don't buy it.|
Originally Posted by _Hush_
Not all powers release are top notch so if I am going pay for points and dish out the green it better be damn good.
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Now, there's a limitation here because you can't return something you don't like if you buy it and then decide, oops, I don't like that. That's a glaring limitation that I don't particularly like, either, but it's also one I very much understand - it's literally not worth it for the parent company to let us make returns with all the fraud exist out there. This is one of those cases of "this is why we can't have nice things" - the butt-heads out there make it so on-line vendors have negative incentive to support a better system. I don't particularly blame NCSoft for that, and I certainly don't blame Paragon Studios.
All that said, there is a lot you can do to test new things as a VIP. You can try them out on beta servers, or you can wait after release and see what people say about them. You don't have to buy things you don't like, and you shouldn't. Part of the way this should work is that people vote with their dollars, and that gives the devs an idea of what players do and don't like.
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If you don't like it, then why are you buying it? If you're unsure of a set, you can always go to test/beta server and try it out without actually paying. If you do that during an actual testing phase, there's a good chance you could even get a level bump as well to test it in the later game.|
Originally Posted by _Hush_
I see what is there and it's system somewhat stinks. Not all powers release are top notch so if I am going pay for points and dish out the green it better be damn good.
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I've skipped several of the new powersets (Beast Mastery, Waterblast, and Nature Affinity) because I didn't really have a plan for them (I may by them down the line). I'd suggest you do the same if you're not actually interested in a set.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I save my points for powers, too, and have bought everything but Beast Mastery, which I don't care to get, and still have points leftover. I have also gotten several costumes, a second enhancement tray, and a few other things, all without having to pay a dime for. So how you could not have gotten all of the sets if you didn't pay for anything else is boggling to me.
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Originally Posted by _Hush_
First off, if that was true I wouldn't have to shell out for staff fighting then because like I mentioned previously I save my points for powers. I don't use my points unless otherwise.
I see what is there and it's system somewhat stinks. Not all powers release are top notch so if I am going pay for points and dish out the green it better be damn good. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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If the devs agreed with you... and all power sets were part of VIP... that would result in less power sets at a slower pace. Is this what you want? Because they cannot keep up the pace of making power sets as they currently are without making a profit on them. They just cant.|
Originally Posted by _Hush_
In regards to release of new powers I have to agree that this current model is better prior pre-freedom and better than waiting a whole year.
Everyone is under the premise that I have stashed points or I am wasting it upon costumes. Hell, I am lucky if I have the spare points necessary to buy a power. The system for rewarding your monthly points is borked beyond belief because you literally have no clue when you'll receive them and freedom been out at least a year for them fix problems within the PPM system. I do like the current development team and as a player I enjoy what is being distributed within each issue ( well issue 23 seem kind of ok IMHO). I am looking forward to I24 personally .However, you shouldn't have to pay for powers as V.I.P period their apart of the game. Everything else doesn't matter me that's my only "gripe". |
So what you're saying is that if the rate of incoming power sets should be slowed down so that they are free.
You cannot have "tons of power sets put out at a fast pace" and "all power sets free for vip" in the same game. You just can't. Pick one. And then realize that your pick doesn't matter cause the devs have already decided that some power sets will come with VIP and some wont
You aren't being short changed. You are getting more content than ever at an unprecedented rate. You are getting more now for VIP than you ever did in the past. The fact that there is MORE on top of that which costs extra is what bugs you. And probably the fact that the sets you want cost points and the sets you dont care about are free and those don't count because obviously they aren't the ones you wanted. But it is no different than us buying expansions for power sets or costume bundles for costume sets. We paid extra before for these things and we will continue to do so.
Only now we get MORE stuff FASTER. How anyone can see that as a negative is beyond my ability to comprehend.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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I should have been clearer -- these are from my L50 namesake, Ironik, and he has run the Aura mission. I ran it years ago to get a "Vegas Elvis" look for a Halloween costume. When I went to use the Smoke effect for damaged battle armor, it showed up locked.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
if you're too cheap to drop a few points on the level 1 unlock, you can access them the old fashioned way and run the aura mission.
As someone who often didn't bother with auras because unlocking them was a boring annoyance, I spent the points. |
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I don't care if CoH takes my recommendations, I only care if the game is fun. I feel they're going in the wrong direction. But that's another issue -- right now let's focus on the original question, about whether VIP status is 'worth it' or not.
Look at the analyses earlier in this thread. There are 8 pay-for powersets, including Bio Armor which is coming soon. There are another 7 powersets given free to VIPs.
If you buy those 8 powersets as a Tier-9 VIP it will cost you 6400 points, out of the 6600 you get over the course of a year. 200 points left over; go buy yourself a few costume scraps.
If you buy all 15 powersets as a Premium player it will cost you 12000 points. If the Premium player spends the same amount of money as the VIP they will have 13560 points -- 1560 left over. That's almost two more powersets, or at least two costume sets, or I don't know how many SSA arcs. The Premium player makes out like a bandit.
What balances VIP status is the monthly tokens, Incarnate content, SSAs and superbases. But after Tier 9 the monthly tokens no longer matter. I still haven't spent all of mine, and I don't feel like gambling on sketchy 'super packs'. If Incarnate content does not appeal to you then VIP status gives you nothing. (You can purchase the SSAs off the additional points you get from going Premium.) Superbases are the only thing I treasure as a VIP, and I can't even invite my own characters into a super group; as useful as it is, it's a bad and abandoned system.
If they truly valued VIPs, they'd even up the rewards a little. Doubling the PP stipend would bring them in line with Premium, but even a 50% raise would be more fair. *Or* give more of the powersets to VIPs for free -- no, they shouldn't get all powersets for free, but they darn well should get more than half.
Right now VIPs get about half as much purchasable content as Premium players do for the same amount of money, plus some fixed content that may or may not appeal to them. That's a terrible deal. For those who have been loyal to this game for years, it's downright insulting.
If they're trying to entice people to become VIP, they're doing it wrong.
...
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Now, I could get into the idea of once you get to tier 9 you have an option to convert tokens to some amount of points, say 100 or 200. There really isn't a lot on the tier 9 schedule that I am interested in at the moment.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
What balances VIP status is the monthly tokens, Incarnate content, SSAs and superbases. But after Tier 9 the monthly tokens no longer matter. I still haven't spent all of mine, and I don't feel like gambling on sketchy 'super packs'. If Incarnate content does not appeal to you then VIP status gives you nothing. (You can purchase the SSAs off the additional points you get from going Premium.) Superbases are the only thing I treasure as a VIP, and I can't even invite my own characters into a super group; as useful as it is, it's a bad and abandoned system.
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Tech Support Rule #1 - They will lie to you. Usually intentionally.
7 free new power sets in 4 Issues is a way faster rate than at any time pre-Freedom.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'm not questioning the business decision to Freedom. (I have and I do, but I'm not right now.) I'm just debating the specifics of the plan. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
7 free new power sets in 4 Issues is a way faster rate than at any time pre-Freedom.
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People post about how disappointed they are with VIP status every time a new powerset is released. A simple tweak to the VIP rewards would make all these threads go away.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
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You are not making any sense. You get more than enough PP's to get the sets for free eventually. If you are one of those types of people that has to have it nao! Then that is nothing more than you deciding to pay nao instead of waiting for the points to build....your problem not the devs.|
Originally Posted by _Hush_
First off, if that was true I wouldn't have to shell out for staff fighting then because like I mentioned previously I save my points for powers. I don't use my points unless otherwise.
I see what is there and it's system somewhat stinks. Not all powers release are top notch so if I am going pay for points and dish out the green it better be damn good. |
Expecting every set to be top notch is beyond stupid and so is your entitled attitude at this point in the thread. People have already showed you where the value is and the best you can come up with is even more of a childish petulant attitude about it.
Well bugger if that does not beat all. Your type of customer can never be pleased because to please you a company would have to do things that would put them out of business, they are MUCH better off without customers like yourself.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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There is nothing wrong with the VIP rewards. People with overly entitled attitudes and unrealistic expectations of a for profit company, oh yeah that needs tweaking BAD!
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I'm not questioning the business decision to Freedom. (I have and I do, but I'm not right now.) I'm just debating the specifics of the plan.
People post about how disappointed they are with VIP status every time a new powerset is released. A simple tweak to the VIP rewards would make all these threads go away. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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You're completely missing the point, so let me explain:|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
You are not making any sense. You get more than enough PP's to get the sets for free eventually. If you are one of those types of people that has to have it nao! Then that is nothing more than you deciding to pay nao instead of waiting for the points to build....your problem not the devs.
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There are two kinds of content being discussed; free to VIPs and purchasable.
VIPs have no choice in what they get for free.
If VIPs do not want some of the content given to them, tough. They have to take it. They paid for it with their subscription, whether they want it or not.
Premium players do not have this lack of freedom. They can pick and choose what content to pay for.
This is yet another way in which the current microtransaction system favors Premium players over VIPs.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
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Basic math says you're wrong. If 13560 (Premium) > 6600 (VIP), then there's something wrong with the VIP rewards.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
There is nothing wrong with the VIP rewards. People with overly entitled attitudes and unrealistic expectations of a for profit company, oh yeah that needs tweaking BAD!
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...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
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VIP's have a choice in how to spend the 400-550 PP's they get each month. Those points can be spent on a myriad of things that cost "that are NOT included" in the sub. |
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
You're completely missing the point, so let me explain:
There are two kinds of content being discussed; free to VIPs and purchasable. VIPs have no choice in what they get for free. If VIPs do not want some of the content given to them, tough. They have to take it. They paid for it with their subscription, whether they want it or not. Premium players do not have this lack of freedom. They can pick and choose what content to pay for. This is yet another way in which the current microtransaction system favors Premium players over VIPs. |
Not really seeing how anyone can say VIP's that get free points each month to spend on the same non-free items for all(prems too) don't have a choice. They absolutely do and your logic saying they don't is fail....sorry.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Not really sure WTH you are talking about here mate. |
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Basic math says you're wrong. If 13560 (Premium) > 6600 (VIP), then there's something wrong with the VIP rewards.
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The bottom line is VIP's get a great deal for the sub, if you don't feel you are getting the value you desire for your sub, there are plenty of other things you could spend your money on that gives you the value you seek.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Remus, don't forget:|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
If you buy all 15 powersets as a Premium player it will cost you 12000 points. If the Premium player spends the same amount of money as the VIP they will have 13560 points -- 1560 left over. That's almost two more powersets, or at least two costume sets, or I don't know how many SSA arcs. The Premium player makes out like a bandit.
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3 costume bundles (IDF, Olympian Guard, Leather + Chainmail) x 400 = 1200
Then there's the costumes you cannot get unless VIP - Celestial, Fire & Ice,
Mecha (and soon-ish, Tech Knight). But lets discount those, since they
are available only to T9 VIP.
SSA Arcs cost 400 each (2800 points) if you want them on release, or
2400 if you wanted to wait for SSA #1 complete arc.
And I suppose we're assuming Premium had Going Rogue edition previously,
so didn't have to purchase alignment system (1200) or GR costume sets
(400?)
First Ward content - 600
That puts a premium 2640 or so points behind VIP. Even more if Epic Archetypes,
masterminds or controllers are desired.
I think VIP players are getting a pretty good deal.
Global: @AcceleratorRay
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Basic math doesn't account for EVERYTHING ELSE you get with the VIP subscription. If all you got were points sure your math would be spot on. But you aren't just getting points. |
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Basic math says you're wrong. If 13560 (Premium) > 6600 (VIP), then there's something wrong with the VIP rewards.
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You're getting:
SSA's
Incarnate Content
New Zones (First Ward, Night Ward)
Alternate starting experience (Praetoria)
Invention Access
Auction Access
Reward Merits
Alignment system
And more
Just because you might not value these things does not mean they do not have value.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
You've also forgotten to account for: 12 free slots per server. If you ignore Exalted, that would cost you 57,600 points (at the best rate). Exalted would raise that up a bit more.
I don't have anywhere near all servers filled, but I've got a lot of characters. Far more than I could unlock if I dropped down to premium.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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And to add to all the "you've forgotten" comments, once you stop paying that $15/month, you LOSE all those items. Premium purchases last until the servers shut down. And no matter how long I subscribe, I will not get to keep all those extras. I would have to decide what items my 'free' points would keep unlocked permanently and given the discussion here, after purchasing powersets, you will inevitably lose those extra slots, costumes, arcs, etc. Or just keep paying.
But I'm of the mindset of don't buy it if you don't want it. As Remus pointed out, if you don't like the Incarnate system then Premium is the best option. For me, I'm spending less and getting the same fun as I always have.
To the OP, if you don't feel VIP, I think the solution is simple and should cost you less in the long run unless you have a serious case of alt-itis. As a premium player, I have little complaint about the value I'm currently getting. I was rewarded exceptionally for subscribing all those years and absolutely thrilled to hear about others paying beyond their subscription to get extras that took forever to release in the previous model. With that increased revenue, I worry less about how long the servers will be up and how long I get to enjoy this game. 
Edit: And since this game is closing and this thread somehow made it back to the front page, some unfinished business.
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You're absolutely right about unlocking stuff as a premium means you always have it. If I could afford to buy enough points to unlock the whole shebang I probably would... but.... that's a great deal of points. I simply can't make such an up front investment. What I CAN do is subscribe and save up points and slowly but surely perma-unlock an item here or there that I already get with VIP or use those points on new stuff. |
Originally Posted by Tutelary
And to add to all the "you've forgotten" comments, once you stop paying that $15/month, you LOSE all those items. Premium purchases last until the servers shut down. And no matter how long I subscribe, I will not get to keep all those extras. I would have to decide what items my 'free' points would keep unlocked permanently and given the discussion here, after purchasing powersets, you will inevitably lose those extra slots, costumes, arcs, etc. Or just keep paying.
But I'm of the mindset of don't buy it if you don't want it. As Remus pointed out, if you don't like the Incarnate system then Premium is the best option. For me, I'm spending less and getting the same fun as I always have. To the OP, if you don't feel VIP, I think the solution is simple and should cost you less in the long run unless you have a serious case of alt-itis. As a premium player, I have little complaint about the value I'm currently getting. I was rewarded exceptionally for subscribing all those years and absolutely thrilled to hear about others paying beyond their subscription to get extras that took forever to release in the previous model. With that increased revenue, I worry less about how long the servers will be up and how long I get to enjoy this game. |
And even if I did unlock everything I'd still lose incarnate content, my base functionality which I value highly, and there's several costume bits that seem intrinsically tied to VIP and dont have a buyable option in the market (they aren't anything fancy or part of sets they just don't seem to be available on my 2nd account which is premium).
At the end of the day though... tally that total up... is the person who pays to unlock the whole shebang really getting more for less?
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Well, that's because most people today have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. What else could explain a bitter taste from the simple fact that people who pay more get more?|
Originally Posted by Quinch
The projected message of being a Very Important Player is undercut by the fact that, at the start, their options are still limited. What if they want to create characters with various paid-for powersets? They'll either have to pay extra off the bat, or wait each month enough points to buy them and the prospect of that, if I were just coming to the game, would leave a pretty bitter taste in my mouth.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
All that being said, you have to remember that VIPs are actually the least important players in CoH. The management wants to make money through microtransactions, they want everyone to pay that way, and so they structure their content to entice people to be Premium. They do not want VIPs.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
Right now I'm coasting on a decision I made last year. CoH needs to do something amazing to keep me, given the current state of affairs. I see no indication that they'll do that -- they *like* the way things are, even if it means losing players that have been here since launch, even if it means bleeding people away.
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As for "bleeding people", that's a given. That will always be happening, in every game, business, whatever. So the fact that some long-term subscribers will leave is assumed.
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If by "all who were like me", you mean players who are only marginally happy with the game, then yeah, I guess most of them have left. However, there are plenty of players like me, who think the game is great, is going in a good direction and who are happy enough with it to have more than one VIP account *AND* buy extra points.|
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
I am *an* example of a long term player, but perhaps not the ur-example. Maybe I was, once, but all who were like me left the game.
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Originally Posted by RemusShepherd
But that's another issue -- right now let's focus on the original question, about whether VIP status is 'worth it' or not.
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That's a terrible deal. For those who have been loyal to this game for years, it's downright insulting. If they're trying to entice people to become VIP, they're doing it wrong. |
MY OPINION is that VIP is a great deal and I am being well-rewarded for my loyalty. You know, by little things like a bunch of extra character slots for being a long-term subscriber - things I would have had to pay for.
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RemusShepherd is obviously off his meds if he really thinks that the Devs are more interested in the Premiums than the VIPs (they've even explicitly said that the VIPs are and will always be the heart of the game... which their actions 100% back up).
I've not been regularly subscribed post-Freedom (I had simply gotten burned out from years of playing), but if I had, I'd have easily been able to cover the cost of every power set that was being sold on the market that I was even slightly interested in. I've had to buy a few points (I think a grand total of $15 worth) to cover several different pay-for sets, along with a LOT of extremely high quality costumes (I've gotten several full sets, and a number of individual items from different sets).
Personally, I think I got an extremely good deal. I've gotten more costumes, more powersets, more content, and more miscellaneous goodies in the little time I've been subbed post-Freedom, than entire years pre-Freedom. The Devs have always been very responsive to the playerbase, but they've done more post-Freedom for us than any other time pre-Freedom. I've certainly had my complaints (such as the LFG system being an utter failure for the whole 'finding group' thing), but they've done a surprisingly good job addressing such issues (I don't know how or why, but the /lfg alleviated all my issues with finding groups... I have an easier time joining teams and doing TFs now than even back when I was part of an active SG, well known on the most active global server for my server, and on the most heavily populated server).
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.