Tanks vs Brutes

Ok, Imagine the following situation...

You are teaming with a fire blaster that you like against +3 enemies and the blaster accidentally fireballs a second group of bad guys right after you jump into the first group of bad guys. Do you want to:

A: Save the blaster! Either taunt or jump over and use an AoE attack or an aura to get aggro and juggle the two groups until you and the fire blaster pick everyone off? (this will probably take an extra 30 seconds or so as you juggle the mobs) The blaster then types "LOL".

B: Let the blaster die! Kill your own group, then jump over and land on the blasters dead body and kill the second group. Afterwards, give the blaster a wakie. (Wait 30 seconds for blaster to rez and rest) Type "LOL" while the blaster rezzes.

If you answer A, then you may prefer a tank, definitely take taunt if you play a brute.

If you answer B, then you may prefer a brute, do NOT play a stone tank.

*Not legally responsible for any deaths that result from this test or any additional test that the user ever takes

C: Attempt to save the blaster. If he still manages to die, finish off the group and laugh at his corpse.

See, I hate to nitpick, but that's pure conjecture.

Would a Brute have died in that situation? Who's to say? It depends on too many variables.
Would a Tank have died in that situation? Same deal.
Would a Brute with Taunt have been completely interchangable without the team really noticing? Perhaps.

As far as I'm concerned, the only generalizations to be made dealing with Tank vs. Brute are thusly:

a) Tanks have higher base resistance and defense numbers (But a Brute can come close or meet them with IOs)
b) Brutes have higher base damage (Tanks may be able to come close with IOs).
c) Brutes can take Taunt (the power), which functions the same way on either AT.

A lot of things are assumed when one of these ATs joins a team. "Oh, the tank is finally here!" "Damn, another Brute. They're worse than scrappers."

These assumptions need to be challenged.

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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

I don't know about the flexible build, though - one of the things that Fury provides a Brute is the ability to slot more endurance reduction to get the same damage, or at the very least more damage out of identical slotting.

If a Tanker tries to close the damage cap they need to also cover the endurance cost gap to achieve that extra damage (whether through recharge or higher damage slotting), while a Brute gets it for no cost as their inherent.

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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

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Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

...I could have sworn the Brute melee modifier was higher than a Tanker's.

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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

...the sub-conversation was specifically about Shield Defense, and specifically about comparing two characters which were both softcapped. SD does indeed function significantly better at the softcap, what with its low-to-moderate resists and total lack of healing or improved regeneration. You're not wrong, but it's kind of a non sequitur.

Electric Armor is quite another story, of course, and lots of characters (Brute or otherwise) function fine without being softcapped. In fact, I can't recall the last time I played a Brute that was softcapped to anything. But an analogous comparison can be made for other armor sets: whatever survival goal a Brute aims for, a Tanker can reach or surpass more easily, and then spend more slots on getting other stuff that the Brute didn't have room for.

I was catching up on this discussion, and I hope you all don't mind me asking...but how does a ST ranged DOT power significantly increase the DPS of a melee character?

Brute ratio of survivability to damage is more optimal to the game than a Tanker's. Often the Tanker's survivability is overkill. If Brutes truly died so much that it had a negative impact on them, they wouldn't be tied with Scrappers for most popular AT, while Tankers are closer to the bottom because most players don't want to take a big hit to damage for a minor decrease in how often they faceplant.

Brute damage potential versus their survivability potential blows that of Tankers out of the water. A Brute can be made as durable as a Tanker, shy 10% max HP but Brute damage potential is much greater than 10% more than the Tanker's. They are irrefutably numerically superior to Tankers.

In other words, Brutes start off arguably with more of what they need to get the job done (and do it faster than Tankers), only get better with IOs, Incarnate powers, etc and their maximum potential is far greater than Tankers.

Furthermore, Tankers cause more of their own bad press by acting like bossy, entitled control freaks who won't tolerate sharing aggro because frankly that's all they've got.

As fair as I'm concerned, two things need to happen with Tankers.

-They need to have their damage cap brought in line with Brutes'.
-They need an extensive image makeover that consists of no less than a new and interesting combat mechanic that adds some much needed flash and pizzazz to the AT to kill the perception they are feeble fighters and are just slow and lumbering Brutes.

Something to sell them to players other than aggro control because A)that's obviously a niche interest since Brutes are kicking their butts and nobody takes the existing Presence pool for the taunts and B)since side switching there are three other ATs now intended to share the tanking duties to some degree and two more that affect other forms of crowd control.

It's a dead end for Tankers to continue to overspecialize and play up a niche further that's rapidly becoming less relevant to the game.


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