In the case of Scrappers, I never have taken confront.
Tankers - I always take taunt as soon as I can
Brutes - I always take taunt as soon as I can.
One exception for the brute, I have one fire/fire brute who is AE fire farm only who does not have taunt. Normally even my fire farmers have it and the fire/fire farmer who doesn't will probably end up with it next time I do a respec.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Maybe on arth.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
if you are soloing a tanker you are doing it wrong, simple as that
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I call hax if you take either on a stalker.
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Originally Posted by BViking
Tanker? Absolutely. Brute, usually. Scrapper? Maybe. (My Mace/Shield, for example, is a bit...belligerent... My Katana/Energy is more reserved, and only fights when required.) Stalker? I doubt it.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
I was gonna say...what kind of I26 meta-build have you got for that Stalker with Taunt, eh?
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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I solo my ice/ice quite a bit, i can run huge numbers of enemies (better with energy absorption to have more) and ice has the aoe to bring them down. As per taunt, neuronia had my reason for taking and slotting taunt on my tanker, the set io bonuses help typed s/l defense. it generally seemed like most taunt sets had useful bonuses.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
if you are soloing a tanker you are doing it wrong, simple as that
tankers are for teams brutes and scrappers are for solo heal other is a useless power when soloing, that does not mean it should be removed or altered |
Confront is always skipped, taunt is generally taken on brutes and always on tanks. It is a targeted aoe control tool that i find really helpful when i cant get them in my auras.
Challenge and Provoke from Presence enable Stalkers to take taunting powers, and I actually have one of those on one of my SR Stalkers. I needed to fill in a power slot without using enhancement slots
I suspected many Brute players would chip in to say they do take Taunt, and I don't disagree with its utility. I expected more people to say they don't, though. I'm not surprised almost no-one takes Confront, which is where I want to see the most done. Taunt itself is useful for tanking on teams if that's your thing, but Confront really is limited to just catching runners (sometimes, they like to ignore it often) or pulling AN enemy of a team-mate. I've have sufficiently sturdy Scrappers and I've tried to use them to tank for my friends, but the aggro control just isn't there. Confront being single-target just doesn't do enough, so any tanking I do manage to pull of is more on the strength of Scrapper Armour damage/taunt auras.
Useful or not, though, these powers seem to have been forgotten. Nothing interesting is ever done with them, either visually or mechanically, and I kind of wish this weren't the case.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The way I look at Confront for Scrappers is this: If I need to "pull" an enemy off a squishy teammate, I run over and kill whatever it is that needs to be pulled. Confront just isn't as 100% effective as a Greater Fire Sword to the face.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I suspected many Brute players would chip in to say they do take Taunt, and I don't disagree with its utility. I expected more people to say they don't, though. I'm not surprised almost no-one takes Confront, which is where I want to see the most done. Taunt itself is useful for tanking on teams if that's your thing, but Confront really is limited to just catching runners (sometimes, they like to ignore it often) or pulling AN enemy of a team-mate. I've have sufficiently sturdy Scrappers and I've tried to use them to tank for my friends, but the aggro control just isn't there. Confront being single-target just doesn't do enough, so any tanking I do manage to pull off is more on the strength of Scrapper Armour damage/taunt auras.
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My brute (which, as a 50 SS/Inv I'll admit is my only high-level brute) uses Taunt, even solo, to maximize the number of enemies for Invincibility (and, I'd imagine, the same goes for Willpower (RttC) and anything with a damage aura for Fury-building as well), but Scrappers can't "tank" because their damage auras do not have a Taunt mechanic by design. You have to draw aggro by doing damage and raising your threat level, and at that point whatever you're attacking is probably going to be dead anyway.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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I know they can take taunting powers, but they cannot take Taunt nor Confront - being picky I know but eh.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Challenge and Provoke from Presence enable Stalkers to take taunting powers, and I actually have one of those on one of my SR Stalkers. I needed to fill in a power slot without using enhancement slots
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Mind if I quote you on that?
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Go right ahead...
Just keep in mid that its nothing more than a personal opinion. I have in point of fact, never played a tanker. Just like some people don't play MM's because they don't like managing pets, or some people don't play doms because they don't like Domination, or some people don't play Brutes because they don't like fury.
I don't play takers because I don't like them. I don't like that their defensive set is their primary. I don't like the idea behind them as a game-play element, and I don't like the lower damage they (generally) have when compared to scrapers. To me they are a throwback to the old Tank, heal, nuke trinity of MMO classes.
Scrapers on the other hand got it right (in my opinion). They can get out their and "tank" but they still need support/buffs/controls to truly survive.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
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Tankers should not be prevented from soloing, but the AT should not be judged on it as that is not what they are for. Brutes and scrappers are designed for soloing, tankers are not.|
Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
So I should "lrn2ply" then? Quit being ridiculous, you ridiculous person. Tankers shouldn't be prevented from soloing any more than a Defender. It's ludicrous to believe otherwise. My point was: my SS/Inv brute, with Taunt, can "tank" an entire 8-man spawn (definition being "control all aggro onto itself and survive"), *and* be able to do significant damage to that same spawn. That's two whole things.
An equivalent Tanker can only do one of those things. This is not okay. |
I'm not saying that brutes are not overpowered and don't need to be nerfed. I'm just saying that tankers role is not soloing.
I have never taken Confront, but I've taken Taunt on multiple tanks/brutes and use it regularly, and I use the taunt in kheldian lobster form regularly. Even solo.
However, if I have a tight build and need to drop a power to fit in something I really want, Taunt is the first to go.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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The devs have never said this as a matter of fact they are on record saying every AT can solo the content. I took one of my tanks to 50 soloing content. You are just making stuff up. You should not do that if you want to be taken seriously.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Brutes and scrappers are designed for soloing, tankers are not.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I'm not saying that brutes are not overpowered and don't need to be nerfed.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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"Designed for soloing?" What? What the PANCAKE are you talking about? Every AT in this game should be able to solo content, and as far as I know, most can. (Ice controllers not withstanding |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Tankers should not be prevented from soloing, but the AT should not be judged on it as that is not what they are for. Brutes and scrappers are designed for soloing, tankers are not.
I'm not saying that brutes are not overpowered and don't need to be nerfed. I'm just saying that tankers role is not soloing. |
)My point was this: Why would you make a Tanker when a Brute, with the same powersets and slotting, can do everything the Tanker can, and do more damage? That is a problem that needs to be fixed.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
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Did dug say tankers could not solo? I thought he was countering the argument that tankers should be buffed because brutes and scrappers soloed better than tankers?|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
The devs have never said this as a matter of fact they are on record saying every AT can solo the content. I took one of my tanks to 50 soloing content. You are just making stuff up. You should not do that if you want to be taken seriously.
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Tankers were designed with teams in mind. That is why they do lower damage, so that teammates will do the damage they cannot (and they will take the damage their teammates cannot).
How is that making stuff up?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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My thoughts exactly. Even for runners. I have yet to find a mob that can out maneuver ss+cj. I understand pre level 4 it might be an issue. My first 6 months playing the game I was an emp. Chasing down players is much more challenging than mobs.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
The way I look at Confront for Scrappers is this: If I need to "pull" an enemy off a squishy teammate, I run over and kill whatever it is that needs to be pulled. Confront just isn't as 100% effective as a Greater Fire Sword to the face.
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I thought you were supposed to be a clever...|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
if you are soloing a tanker you are doing it wrong, simple as that
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My tanker solos the majority of the time and is leveling faster than I'd intended. Guess I need to lrn2plarite,
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May I ask, what would it take for you to like them? Is it that they have less damage than a Scrapper period and that means they're automatically out, or is there a point you could reduce the damage penalty where they'd become attractive to you?|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
I don't play takers because I don't like them. I don't like that their defensive set is their primary. I don't like the idea behind them as a game-play element, and I don't like the lower damage they (generally) have when compared to scrapers. To me they are a throwback to the old Tank, heal, nuke trinity of MMO classes.
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Also, would Tankers become more attractive to you if they offered a unique combat style/mechanic (Stalkers have 'hide and poke', Scrappers have random crits and Brutes have 'chase the Fury bar') even if it didn't increase their damage all that much?
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Yes.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
May I ask, what would it take for you to like them?
Also, would Tankers become more attractive to you if they offered a unique combat style/mechanic (Stalkers have 'hide and poke', Scrappers have random crits and Brutes have 'chase the Fury bar') even if it didn't increase their damage all that much? |
Stalkers I like the idea behind them but don't play them often, mostly due to not having a good character concept for one yet. Given the recent buffs I need to get on that. Scrapers Crits tend to, IMO, make awesome moments more awesome. I.E. I had 10 health left and Headsplitter killed that boss that was at 1/2 health. Yes its a mechanic that adds damage but its not like you can rely on it to constantly help you.
Now if taunt was replaced with an attack that picked up the nearest mob and used it like a club to beat the other mobs senseless while doing the hulk roar I would play a tanker.
In essence tankers, to me at least, don't feel like the biggest threat in the room at any given time. They just do the "come get me" emote and the mobs arbitrarily dog-pile him. Useful, but not terribly engaging to play.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
I have Taunt on all of my Tankers over level 20 (3 so far, Stone/Mace, Ice/SS, Inv/SS).
I have Confront on only 1 (out of 4) of my Scrappers.
I do not have Taunt on any (3) of my Brutes.
Global name: @k26dp
Before Inherent Fitness, I took taunt on most of my tanks. On occasion I couldn't fit it into the build. With Inherent Fitness, pretty much all my tanks will take it. It can be a fairly useful tool at times, but not necessarily something I spam constantly.
On my Brutes; most of them have taken taunt, as I hate chasing down runners.
On my Scrappers; a few have taken Confront but in general it depends on the sets I'm working with, and the final build goal.
I haven't bothered to take Challenge or Provoke on my Stalker, nor any of my other toons.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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That's part of the problem, yes. I don't deny that Confront and especially Taunt have their uses and I'll be the first to admit they really are worth the price of admission... The all of no slots, one power pic, no endurance cost, auto-hit effect. But the thing is that however well the power may be balanced within its own stats, it still costs me a power pick that it ought to be worth. Again, I concede that for tanking, Taunt does can be argued to be worth it. I've never tanked so I don't know. However, when a Scrapper can usually achieve the same thing with an attack as with Taunt, I do think Confront can use a once-over.
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Originally Posted by Aurora_Girl
The way I look at Confront for Scrappers is this: If I need to "pull" an enemy off a squishy teammate, I run over and kill whatever it is that needs to be pulled. Confront just isn't as 100% effective as a Greater Fire Sword to the face.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The thing is, I love tankers. I love strolling through a x8 mission watching mobs ineffectually piling on top of me until I causally hurl them all off, or simply ignore them, complete the mission, and walk back out again.
That feels like a real superhero to me.
I really should do something about this signature.
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That's fine. I'll be over there, soloing the x8 'Lone Wolf' missions from the DA arcs, quoting Optimus Prime and being unkillable |
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
In essence tankers, to me at least, don't feel like the biggest threat in the room at any given time. They just do the "come get me" emote and the mobs arbitrarily dog-pile him. Useful, but not terribly engaging to play. |
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I don't play Tankers as I find them boring to operate, but I do see value in taking their taunt ability.
My Brutes typically like taunt for the purposes of building fury, but it's hardly something I prioritize and it's only very useful for early levels where I can't build my fury as quickly as I would like. If I built my Brutes for tanking I might consider taunt more of a priority, but I don't, so it isn't.
I never take Confront on a Scrapper, however. A single target provoke has little use when I can just as easily attack them for the same effect.
I think the powers work fine enough on their own, save for confront, which I find completely useless. I'm not sure how you would change confront without stepping on Tanker's already bloody toes. I don't really think it needs to be changed either.
tankers are for teams
brutes and scrappers are for solo
heal other is a useless power when soloing, that does not mean it should be removed or altered
An equivalent Tanker can only do one of those things. This is not okay.
But as for the original topic, I find that Taunt is something that you choose to take depending on the powers and playstyle of that particular character. On my /ice tank, for example, I didn't choose Taunt because I felt the Ice auras do a good enough job maintaining aggro for me. I also have never taken Confront on any of my scrappers, as I find it superfluous and against the principle of Scrapperlock.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)