What?!? No Blockbuster Feedback Thread?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-06-27 11:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Complaining that your character was given lines in a movie to say?
Really?
Also known as HasselHoof!
This may come as a surprise to some people, but those four roles aren't exactly the most moral. I seriously doubt con artists care whether they offend people or not just as long as they get the job done.
Stop complaining that you're being forced into playing something immoral - villains have to pretend to be heroes in normal content so why can't heroes pretend to be villains in something which is obviously not that serious.
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Originally Posted by Snowzone
This may come as a surprise to some people, but those four roles aren't exactly the most moral. I seriously doubt con artists care whether they offend people or not just as long as they get the job done.
Stop complaining that you're being forced into playing something immoral - villains have to pretend to be heroes in normal content so why can't heroes pretend to be villains in something which is obviously not that serious. |
Pretty much this.
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Nope. |
Originally Posted by Natuhyru
Complaining that your character was given lines in a movie to say?
Really? |
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Originally Posted by Snowzone
Stop complaining that you're being forced into playing something immoral
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Golden Girl said it best. The Grifter role is very obviously written to be filled by a male character. Most of my characters are not male, and I am not male, so it's jarring and not fun to play the "optimal" solution. Flirting and saying crass things (repeatedly?) to a female NPC, with zero priming or justification, is not part of who I am as a player.
This is the last I'm saying on the matter. It's disappointing that my plain-spoken point of view has been twisted in so many ways, but I'm glad some people get what I'm saying. I hope the devs do, also.
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You're missing the point - the morality doesn't matter - it's that the role is written for a male, while the other 3 roles are all written as gender neutral.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
This may come as a surprise to some people, but those four roles aren't exactly the most moral. I seriously doubt con artists care whether they offend people or not just as long as they get the job done.
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It'd be fine if the 4 roles used preset characters, and the Grfiter was defined as a male character - like there's no problem playing Tyrant's personal story mission where he refers to Black Swan as a harlot, becasue the character we're given to play is a guy, and the model used is naturally male.
The personal story missions are basically "movies" where we play the part of a preset chatacter, and they're each written with that character in mind - which is how the Grifter role comes accross - it feels like it was written with a preset character in mind, but without giving us a preset character and model to use for it.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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That would be an upgrade for the event; giving us actors appropriate costumes for our roles (where applicable).
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The personal story missions are basically "movies" where we play the part of a preset chatacter, and they're each written with that character in mind - which is how the Grifter role comes accross - it feels like it was written with a preset character in mind, but without giving us a preset character and model to use for it.
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I know plenty of female characters who, in the course of acting as a distraction, would openly flirt and say crass things to get the job done. Implying that a woman couldn't is kind of sexist, honestly.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You're missing the point - the morality doesn't matter - it's that the role is written for a male, while the other 3 roles are all written as gender neutral.
It'd be fine if the 4 roles used preset characters, and the Grfiter was defined as a male character - like there's no problem playing Tyrant's personal story mission where he refers to Black Swan as a harlot, becasue the character we're given to play is a guy, and the model used is naturally male. The personal story missions are basically "movies" where we play the part of a preset chatacter, and they're each written with that character in mind - which is how the Grifter role comes accross - it feels like it was written with a preset character in mind, but without giving us a preset character and model to use for it. |
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Did you read the event clue bubbles? In the first phase, the text box for The Grifter reads "Then, The Grifter met Sylvia Rexston and used her cunning skills to distract her from going to the office of Ted Dubois." (Or something similar, I haven't had my coffee.)|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You're missing the point - the morality doesn't matter - it's that the role is written for a male, while the other 3 roles are all written as gender neutral.
It'd be fine if the 4 roles used preset characters, and the Grfiter was defined as a male character - like there's no problem playing Tyrant's personal story mission where he refers to Black Swan as a harlot, becasue the character we're given to play is a guy, and the model used is naturally male. The personal story missions are basically "movies" where we play the part of a preset chatacter, and they're each written with that character in mind - which is how the Grifter role comes accross - it feels like it was written with a preset character in mind, but without giving us a preset character and model to use for it. |
The game CLEARLY points out that the Grifter is female in more ways than one.
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So how does that work if the avatar is male?
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Did you read the event clue bubbles? In the first phase, the text box for The Grifter reads "Then, The Grifter met Sylvia Rexston and used her cunning skills to distract her from going to the office of Ted Dubois." (Or something similar, I haven't had my coffee.)
The game CLEARLY points out that the Grifter is female in more ways than one. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I don't agree. There's nothing inherent in what happens during the grifter's dialogue that makes any reference to gender at all. The only possible reference to sexuality (as distinct from gender) is the "flirt" and it is wholly possible for a woman to do that.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You're missing the point - the morality doesn't matter - it's that the role is written for a male, while the other 3 roles are all written as gender neutral.
It'd be fine if the 4 roles used preset characters, and the Grfiter was defined as a male character - like there's no problem playing Tyrant's personal story mission where he refers to Black Swan as a harlot, becasue the character we're given to play is a guy, and the model used is naturally male. The personal story missions are basically "movies" where we play the part of a preset chatacter, and they're each written with that character in mind - which is how the Grifter role comes accross - it feels like it was written with a preset character in mind, but without giving us a preset character and model to use for it. |
As for saying something crass, we are not told what is said and there is no reason to believe that it is necessarily sexual or male centric. For example, Joan Rivers says many crass things in her act. Often sexual. But her words are not odd for a woman to say, except for being crass.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Are you sure, he might just have sugar pants. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
The game CLEARLY points out that the Grifter is female in more ways than one.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I very much enjoyed the event and the mixture of RP and action, and this is coming from someone that generally at most skims any text. That said, having to farm the event for procs is beyond tedious.
Give us an alternate means to get these or let us get "Popcorn Kernels" we can exchange for the procs please.
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That question kind of answers itself, actually. It works in the same way the other roles work if the Hitter, the Thief, or the Hacker are female avatars. Are you going to only criticize the Grifter for that?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So how does that work if the avatar is male?
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This stupidity has to stop. NO ONE at Paragon designed this event to be blatantly sexist. It's not like Matt and Aeon sat down and said "Alright, what can we do to marginalize female players?"
They only do that to villain players.
Yes, I'm bitter.
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Becasue the grifter seems to be called "her" in the cutscene - the other 3 roles are gender neutral, but the Grifter is being called female, regarless of what avatar has taken the role - that's a very weird change from the usual way they present content.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
That question kind of answers itself, actually. It works in the same way the other roles work if the Hitter, the Thief, or the Hacker are female avatars. Are you going to only criticize the Grifter for that?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I do have to wonder why the $himher, $heshe, $sirmaam and other gender text tags weren't used here.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Becasue the grifter seems to be called "her" in the cutscene - the other 3 roles are gender neutral, but the Grifter is being called female, regarless of what avatar has taken the role - that's a very weird change from the usual way they present content.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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As long as it was optional, some of us have costumes that are quite fitting for a casino heist.|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
That would be an upgrade for the event; giving us actors appropriate costumes for our roles (where applicable).
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In regards to the grifter, isn't the poster that you get the role from showing a female silhouette?
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That's what I mean - it's a weird way that they've presented it - like it's a mash-up of normal gender flexible mission content and the preset characters of the NPC personal story missions.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I do have to wonder why the $himher, $heshe, $sirmaam and other gender text tags weren't used here.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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When you're making comments like "And the typical male player gets to play this content more-or-less in-line with his world view", I don't anything needed to be 'twisted'.
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Originally Posted by corinna
This is the last I'm saying on the matter. It's disappointing that my plain-spoken point of view has been twisted in so many ways,
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1. Too many AV's and Elite Bosses to make it a lot of fun on repeat. Not so much of an issue in the coliseum, but in the heist it distracts from the story and doesn't really add anything.
2. Heist is repeatable due to the different roles. Coliseum is dull by the 3rd time. Just slogging through AV's and EB's (which were fun the first time).
3. Tying them together is annoying since they are so different.
Overall it was fun once.
The Heist is very cool and I would like more like it. Without the AV fights I would want to do it multiple times.
Colosseum was fun once. AV fights get old fast. I don't think I am willing to slog through it more times.
I just got the kb to kd proc and slotted it into Bonfire... Wow... It needs to be nerfed somehow. I've gone from x2 to x8 with no challenge because it's pretty much a perma-hold. Only level 36 too.
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SSHshhsHShshHSshHShsHShsHSH!|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
I just got the kb to kd proc and slotted it into Bonfire... Wow... It needs to be nerfed somehow. I've gone from x2 to x8 with no challenge because it's pretty much a perma-hold. Only level 36 too.
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>:[
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"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I'm sorry, but it's just cheap.
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Huh. I'm finding it doesn't work with Lightning Field at the moment though. Seriously, it's firing according to my combat logs, but nothing falls down.
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Originally Posted by Snowzone
I just got the kb to kd proc and slotted it into Bonfire... Wow... It needs to be nerfed somehow. I've gone from x2 to x8 with no challenge because it's pretty much a perma-hold. Only level 36 too.
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Bonfire is a 100% chance knockback power in a huge radius, probably 60ft. The proc simply changes that to knockdown. The enemies are knocked down continuously without being able to even stand up.
The Grifter problem could also be solved by adding preset chatacters for us to play, in the same way that we play various NPCs in their personal story missions - but still allowing us to keep our powers.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork