What?!? No Blockbuster Feedback Thread?
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-06-27 11:12 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Earthquake has an 7% chance of knockdown, Ice Slick has an 8% chance. This is 100% chance of knockdown. The enemies don't even stand up, they just fall down again from the fallen position. Continuously.
Quote:
... that's exactly what Earthquake does on my Earth/Earth Dominator. If I put it down, people fall. Earthquake also ticks with a 7% chance every .45s with another 5% chance every .45s, so it happens A LOT. Bonfire ticks every 3 seconds, so it really isn't a whole lot different. If I drop Earthquake on my Dominator, things don't stop falling down until it goes away. And I have enough recharge to chain it together indefinitely.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
Earthquake has an 7% chance of knockdown, Ice Slick has an 8% chance. This is 100% chance of knockdown. The enemies don't even stand up, they just fall down again from the fallen position. Continuously.
|
EDIT: It also looks like part of the knockback of Bonfire suppresses once a KB effect has been applied, something Earthquake doesn't do. Enemies fully stand up in Bonfire, enemies will fall mid-fall in Earthquake.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I'm not actually seeing enemies stand up. They just fall down constantly without being able to move or attack unless they're flying. I don't recall Earthquake being that broken.
I could take on two or three x8 mobs at once and have them all be stuck in an endless loop of knockdown.
Quote:
I'll watch Earthquake after work tonight.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
I'm not actually seeing enemies stand up. They just fall down constantly without being able to move or attack unless they're flying. I don't recall Earthquake being that broken.
I could take on two or three x8 mobs at once and have them all be stuck in an endless loop of knockdown. |
The second paragraph of your post is untrue; Bonfire has a max target cap of 16, and I found that out the hard way trying to herd on my MM last night.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
It wouldn't be too hard to "fix" Bonfire. They could just make half of the KB unenhanceable, and leave the other half as-is. Then you could still boost the knockback effect with KB enhancements, but the Overwhelming Force special wouldn't be able to reduce the mag low enough.
Quote:
Then it was most likely that a lot of the minions in the first mob had died before the second mob reached me. My Fire Imps manage to be a nuisance in that regard.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
The second paragraph of your post is untrue; Bonfire has a max target cap of 16, and I found that out the hard way trying to herd on my MM last night.
|
This may all be a moot point when the proc changes arrive in i24 though. Would it change it to a chance of knockdown based on the recharge and area factor or would it stick as a static KB to KD conversion?
Quote:
I completely agree. This really feels like a way to get the mechanic into the wild without just turning it on for everyone so they can do data mining without possibly breaking the game. After all, if it's too powerful, they just tweak this one IO set. If it's just fine, then they can turn it on for everyone that wants it. And, after all, you didn't pay anything for this IO except time, so nothing lost, really.
|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
You know, after everybody blisters their fingers getting these, they'll mainstream that mechanic somehow.
 |
Save Paragon one more time! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,4877.0.html
Petition to end shutting down CoH:
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Thats a non starter.....
if they are required mobs people will complain that they dont have KB, if they are optional, people will just avoid them because they are suboptimal... |
The way I see them working is that alltho they are harder to kill without KB it can still be done.
Make mobs with watered down versions of Rise to the Challenge and Sunless Mire that work off of friendlys instead of enemies. Then gate these powers behind the combo system from dule blades to prevent them being used in the alpha. Then use the same system that is used to spawn Quntams and Cysts in missions for spawning the mobs.
Then you have mobs that are easier to kill when spread out that can spawn randomly in any mission. I'm not saying that they should be imposable to kill when their grouped up just hard.
This forces players to face these enemies randomly in the normal mission content. This effects the desired change in perception that all KB is bad, and encourages teams to take players with KB.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
I kind of disagree with the idea of making mobs that you need to use KB to defeat, since it's approaching the problem from the wrong angle. It's essentially like the devs noticing that one powerset (or group of sets, as the case may be) is having problems, and deciding to solve it by adding a new enemy group that's specifically weak against that set. It still leaves the powerset sucking for the 99% of the game where that enemy group isn't present, and thus makes the set entirely situational. It doesn't solve the problem at all, and would probably just cause even more issues.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xaphan
I kind of disagree with the idea of making mobs that you need to use KB to defeat, since it's approaching the problem from the wrong angle. It's essentially like the devs noticing that one powerset (or group of sets, as the case may be) is having problems, and deciding to solve it by adding a new enemy group that's specifically weak against that set. It still leaves the powerset sucking for the 99% of the game where that enemy group isn't present, and thus makes the set entirely situational. It doesn't solve the problem at all, and would probably just cause even more issues.
|
That is why I said these mobs should use the same mechanic that is used for cysts and quantams when a Keld is on the team. It makes things spawn in all missions. That way you never know when your going to need KB or not. It encourages the idea that some KB is always a good thing to have.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Quote:
Wrong approach, and still wouldnt work.|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
The way I see them working is that alltho they are harder to kill without KB it can still be done.
Make mobs with watered down versions of Rise to the Challenge and Sunless Mire that work off of friendlys instead of enemies. Then gate these powers behind the combo system from dule blades to prevent them being used in the alpha. Then use the same system that is used to spawn Quntams and Cysts in missions for spawning the mobs. Then you have mobs that are easier to kill when spread out that can spawn randomly in any mission. I'm not saying that they should be imposable to kill when their grouped up just hard. This forces players to face these enemies randomly in the normal mission content. This effects the desired change in perception that all KB is bad, and encourages teams to take players with KB. |
People would just FLOCK to MA where they would never spawn.
The problem is KB is only usefull against a single hard target like an AV, which strangely knockback doesnt work on......
You already need to kill many many many many thousands of mobs to hit 50, making it more painful is not a solution to anything.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
KB is always good to have. My Energy blaster lives on it, and it's not even slotted with extra KB. Your target gets slapped across the room? Go target the next one. The team doesn't suffer because the mobs still get defeated. Who cares if it's the melee or the ranged that's doing it. People are letting one poor experience with a poor player cloud their entire judgement of everyone else that happens to have similar powers.
The solution of an optional KB to KD converter IO is the only fair way to give everyone what they want. If KB were changed fundamentally across all sets, you'd neuter whole sets for no reason.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
Quote:
So spawn specific mobs for specific power sets just so they can feel like they're bein' useful...that...I don't even know how to properly reply to that except that I died a little on the inside. KB isn't inherently bad, but what I will you what is horrible. Knock backs that are random, see gale and hurricane. They work a percentage of the time then when you want them to knock back they don't. That drives me crazy. PBaOE knock backs on a melee toon isn't fun. Some people like them I understand, but they drive me insane. While I know very specific positioning can fix said situations by takin' the time to hop around and get the enemies just right so I can knock them back and not have everyone get annoyed with me, buttttt 90% of the time if I spent all that time I'd be attacking only a handful of mobs as the rest would be dead by that point. Woo, I got to aoe 3 enemies. |
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
That is why I said these mobs should use the same mechanic that is used for cysts and quantams when a Keld is on the team. It makes things spawn in all missions. That way you never know when your going to need KB or not. It encourages the idea that some KB is always a good thing to have.
|
I dislike the idea of this set being unique, or requiring this set to change a power that I think has great potential into something more useful in my eyes. I'd really love the ability to scale the KB I'm doing to the currently max allotted for that power. But I realize that'd be way to much time investment when they'd much more prefer to put out something newer for people to look at and play with.
Long story short, it's a quick fix for people who dislike KB.
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Quote:
Slower=bad for most players...|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
KB is always good to have. My Energy blaster lives on it, and it's not even slotted with extra KB. Your target gets slapped across the room? Go target the next one. The team doesn't suffer because the mobs still get defeated. Who cares if it's the melee or the ranged that's doing it. People are letting one poor experience with a poor player cloud their entire judgement of everyone else that happens to have similar powers.
The solution of an optional KB to KD converter IO is the only fair way to give everyone what they want. If KB were changed fundamentally across all sets, you'd neuter whole sets for no reason. |
Kb-kd io is a good idea, having it availible as a limited time item.... not so much...
I though they didnt want 1 bil io's again, and thats what they will have when the event ends if another method of aquisition isnt put in.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
So spawn specific mobs for specific power sets just so they can feel like they're bein' useful...that...I don't even know how to properly reply to that except that I died a little on the inside. KB isn't inherently bad, but what I will you what is horrible. Knock backs that are random, see gale and hurricane. They work a percentage of the time then when you want them to knock back they don't. That drives me crazy. PBaOE knock backs on a melee toon isn't fun. Some people like them I understand, but they drive me insane. While I know very specific positioning can fix said situations by takin' the time to hop around and get the enemies just right so I can knock them back and not have everyone get annoyed with me, buttttt 90% of the time if I spent all that time I'd be attacking only a handful of mobs as the rest would be dead by that point. Woo, I got to aoe 3 enemies.
I dislike the idea of this set being unique, or requiring this set to change a power that I think has great potential into something more useful in my eyes. I'd really love the ability to scale the KB I'm doing to the currently max allotted for that power. But I realize that'd be way to much time investment when they'd much more prefer to put out something newer for people to look at and play with. Long story short, it's a quick fix for people who dislike KB. |
As I said in my earlyer posts KB is already useful. What I am proposing is to fix the player perception that it's bad.
Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze
"Hypocrisy, the human inherent." "Let not this work be wasted, apply yourself always."
Quote:
And along with what I stated, there is in fact some versions of it that are bad, and need to be fixed, chances for KB where you want something KB'd and it doesn't because oops, your RNG didn't like you. Powers like gale, frag grenade and any other power that has a chance for KB needs to get off the fence and either be KB or no KB. Chance for knock back is even more troublesome than just plain knock back, with plain knock back you at least know what's going to happen.
|
Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
As I said in my earlyer posts KB is already useful. What I am proposing is to fix the player perception that it's bad.
|
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Quote:
Overwhelming Force: The DVD with bonus commentary text in the descriptions and the deleted IOs.
|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
I though they didnt want 1 bil io's again, and thats what they will have when the event ends if another method of aquisition isnt put in.
|
Quote:
The deleted IOs is a chance for mag 1000 KB. *crane kicks Lord Recluse into Night Ward from Grandville*
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
Overwhelming Force: The DVD with bonus commentary text in the descriptions and the deleted IOs.
|
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Quote:
Actually it's more like numerous experiences with numerous bad-to-average players.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
KB is always good to have. My Energy blaster lives on it, and it's not even slotted with extra KB. Your target gets slapped across the room? Go target the next one. The team doesn't suffer because the mobs still get defeated. Who cares if it's the melee or the ranged that's doing it. People are letting one poor experience with a poor player cloud their entire judgement of everyone else that happens to have similar powers.
The solution of an optional KB to KD converter IO is the only fair way to give everyone what they want. If KB were changed fundamentally across all sets, you'd neuter whole sets for no reason. |
Like the time our Blaster kept spawning bonfire in the middle of our WP Tanker's spawn and getting him killed due to no RTTC. How is that ever a good thing? If a melee AT needs enemies to survive and you knock enemies away from them, that is not a good thing. Nothing irks me more than going to hit Dark Regeneration and, a split second before my finger hits the key, a Stormy Gale's my entire enemy cluster out of range of it and I trade my endurance for nothing. Same goes for Soul Drain and Dark Consumption.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
I was on a Ice Mistral Strike Force where we had a Thugs/Stormy and they were bored because that took no attacks and relied on thugs for dps. So they spammed gale. I was on a fire/dark corr. By the end of the SF I was pulling my hair out because tar patch was barely ever used properly.
|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Actually it's more like numerous experiences with numerous bad-to-average players.
Like the time our Blaster kept spawning bonfire in the middle of our WP Tanker's spawn and getting him killed due to no RTTC. How is that ever a good thing? If a melee AT needs enemies to survive and you knock enemies away from them, that is not a good thing. Nothing irks me more than going to hit Dark Regeneration and, a split second before my finger hits the key, a Stormy Gale's my entire enemy cluster out of range of it and I trade my endurance for nothing. Same goes for Soul Drain and Dark Consumption. |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Quote:
Yep. I know that feeling. Earth/Earth/Ice Dominator.|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
I was on a Ice Mistral Strike Force where we had a Thugs/Stormy and they were before because that took no attacks and relied on thugs for dps. So they spammed gale. I was on a fire/dark corr. By the end of the SF I was pulling my hair out because tar patch was barely ever used properly.
|
Quicksand. Earthquake. Volcanic Gasses. Sleet. Ice Storm. Move in with Mud Pots and hit Tremor to open.
............................. Force Field Mastermind runs over with Force Bubble on and slides the entire spawn out of my death patch. Spawn loses debuffs and proceeds to take me apart at the seams.
When I angrily told the Mastermind to NOT knock things out of my 5-power debuff pit, he told me that Force Bubble was a power (no ****), that he took it (no ****) and that he was going to use it whether I liked it or not. The team leader kicked him.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
No 99% of the time, gather is better than spreading.|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
And along with what I stated, there is in fact some versions of it that are bad, and need to be fixed, chances for KB where you want something KB'd and it doesn't because oops, your RNG didn't like you. Powers like gale, frag grenade and any other power that has a chance for KB needs to get off the fence and either be KB or no KB. Chance for knock back is even more troublesome than just plain knock back, with plain knock back you at least know what's going to happen.
|
Its not the perception thats the problem, its the way the leveling works.
If you want to see knockback be usefull, allow it to function on Eb's and Av's, but they wont, because people will just permakb them to make them easier.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Quote:
wat|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
No 99% of the time, gather is better than spreading.
Its not the perception thats the problem, its the way the leveling works. If you want to see knockback be usefull, allow it to function on Eb's and Av's, but they wont, because people will just permakb them to make them easier. |
I was talkin' about KB powers that only have a percentile of a chance to KB. Did you even read my posts?
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Quote:
Ugh nevermind I responded to the wrong post...
|
Originally Posted by Horusaurus
wat
I was talkin' about KB powers that only have a percentile of a chance to KB. Did you even read my posts? |
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
You want to know the secret of the world? It's this: Save it, and it'll repay you, every second of every day.
@Dr. Reverend - My DeviantArt Gallery
Crow Call - Gods of the Golden Age