To those who complained Tyrant was too easy...
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-05-31 14:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I do agree he could use a SMALL nerf...nothing major. I have found the key to success is having an organized group who are willing to follow directions and pay attention.
I do like that it feels epic and more difficult than the other AVs in the trials though....
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I was on some very very good leagues this weekend, even went on 2 Mo runs where we got all 3 AV's within 5 seconds but failed at Tyrant every time. Im 0-18 on this trial and done with it.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
The "original" Tyrant needed a buff. The problem is they obviously went a bit further than they should have(and than what was majority suggested) in their attempts to satisfy a vocal minority of players who campaigned for a more hardcore end boss encounter.
All that did was stiffed the majority of players in the real game and they are reacting. |
So I farmed it and all 12 of my toons are T4 Hybrid. I don't give a rats azz what they do now because im all done.
The Devs get 2 pats on the back and 3 atta boys! Good job!
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Anyone who doesnt get there slot unlocked is going to have a really hard time after this week.
Because nerf or ixp or not, everyone assumes its coming and are blitzing their brains out till they are sick to death of it.
This is going to be VERY VERY hard to get anyone to run once this week is over, and it really has little to do with the difficulty at that point, no one will want to run it after this weeks stupidity.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
I haven't run it once on live yet - I'll still get Hybrid on all the servers 
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I'm not going to gripe if they tone Tyrant down. However, I do not think they should start with that. I think they should fix/adjust Notice of the Well to affect the full league every time. The explicitly stated intent of the Lights of the Well was to allow leagues to choose their difficulty. Making that mechanic random is in wild opposition to that stated intent - by definition random is not controllable. Giving 9 level shifts to the buffing Defender (or to Dark Servant or some tier 1 Mastermind henchman) is not terribly useful for defeating Tyrant in a DPS contest.
So if they do anything, they should fix/adjust the Notice first, and then see how that affects success.
Despite that I personally would not have built the trial the with the front-loaded iXP begging to be farmed, I will be disappointed in the devs if they abruptly cut off the "farmability" without a thoughtful pass at the whole trial. I don't expect them to be heavy-handed with this, and will be quite disappointed in them if I am wrong about that.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I only have Hybrid done on one of my 5 incarnates. I will continue to run it as I am sure many people will. Many people have many badge toons |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Anyone who doesnt get there slot unlocked is going to have a really hard time after this week.
Because nerf or ixp or not, everyone assumes its coming and are blitzing their brains out till they are sick to death of it. This is going to be VERY VERY hard to get anyone to run once this week is over, and it really has little to do with the difficulty at that point, no one will want to run it after this weeks stupidity. |
And if there is a "nerf" to this; especially toning down Tyrant some.. I am sure it will be ran quite regularly as it is not that difficult of a trial to begin with. Also..lest you forgot... this is the only way to get Hybrid...and new 50's are born every day 
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Huh thats funny because we're already organising hw runs on regular basis now and possible rhw runs.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Anyone who doesnt get there slot unlocked is going to have a really hard time after this week.
Because nerf or ixp or not, everyone assumes its coming and are blitzing their brains out till they are sick to death of it. This is going to be VERY VERY hard to get anyone to run once this week is over, and it really has little to do with the difficulty at that point, no one will want to run it after this weeks stupidity. |
The trick is to get people to know how to do the trial, also sad to say this but the leader HAS to be very vocal and very strict to the league otherwise it will fail.
When i've led the trial, i've ALWAYS said a few things to each league so they know the score and that i dont suffer no fools.
- Anybody who is caught afk without letting me know before hand will get ONE warning before being kicked.
- Anybody who ignores the orders/tactics i am giving out, will get ONE warning before being kicked. If you didnt understand it then you should have spoke up when i asked if anybody didnt understand at first.
- If you are dead for more than 10 seconds, then you are as good as AFK and will once again get one warning before being kicked.
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Yep, I've gotten Hybrid on 2 50s. 9 more to go!|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I only have Hybrid done on one of my 5 incarnates. I will continue to run it as I am sure many people will. Many people have many badge toons
And if there is a "nerf" to this; especially toning down Tyrant some.. I am sure it will be ran quite regularly as it is not that difficult of a trial to begin with. Also..lest you forgot... this is the only way to get Hybrid...and new 50's are born every day |
I have completed the trial on 10 of my 11 50s. I forgot to do a non-farm run on my Night Widow. >.<
Spending that time doing full completion runs is why I haven't unlocked it on more 50s, though.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I've tried it 7 times and only succeeded once. In the 6th (successful) run, nothing was significantly different compared to the other runs, but Tyrant went down easily. It then boils down to luck whether two almost identical teams succeed or fail, depending on who gets the level shift. This is not ideal. Perhaps the trial is actually designed for 16 people. I will try running with only 16 and see how it goes.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'm not going to gripe if they tone Tyrant down. However, I do not think they should start with that. I think they should fix/adjust Notice of the Well to affect the full league every time.
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Also, now that we know how the lightning works, people should be able to continue DPSing Tyrant during the lightning by just moving away from the columns...maybe. This should help stop him from regenning up.
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To the bolded: everyone is making a (IMHO) HUGE assumption that the full league is meant to get the level shifts. It being random MAY be working as intended.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I'm not going to gripe if they tone Tyrant down. However, I do not think they should start with that. I think they should fix/adjust Notice of the Well to affect the full league every time. The explicitly stated intent of the Lights of the Well was to allow leagues to choose their difficulty. Making that mechanic random is in wild opposition to that stated intent - by definition random is not controllable. Giving 9 level shifts to the buffing Defender (or to Dark Servant or some tier 1 Mastermind henchman) is not terribly useful for defeating Tyrant in a DPS contest.
So if they do anything, they should fix/adjust the Notice first, and then see how that affects success. Despite that I personally would not have built the trial the with the front-loaded iXP begging to be farmed, I will be disappointed in the devs if they abruptly cut off the "farmability" without a thoughtful pass at the whole trial. I don't expect them to be heavy-handed with this, and will be quite disappointed in them if I am wrong about that. |
Also I AM expecting them to be heavy handed with this. I hope to be proven wrong however.
Just saying.
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The problem may be that Notice of the Well, while it has a 5000 foot radius (sphere) and it definitely meant to be zone-wide, only has a target cap of 16. WAI or OOPS?
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I counter your assumption that people are assuming this with an actual developer quote as to what is supposed to happen:|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
To the bolded: everyone is making a (IMHO) HUGE assumption that the full league is meant to get the level shifts. It being random MAY be working as intended.
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
The Light of the Well exist for one purpose and one purpose only - for each one which is not currently present, the entire league receives a level shift. This allows Leagues playing through the trial without chasing after badges to more than compensate for Tyrant's +5 level shift - if they regularly take out all the lights, they can climb to 50+9, or +10 with Ultimate inspirations, during the course of the fight.
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Is the above post from Arbiter Hawk in any way unclear?
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Perhaps there is a way to ensure who gets the buff. Like perhaps the buff radiates from the person using the quills and hits the first 16 buff-able entities. If so then you might want to have the damage classes dropping the wells.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The problem may be that Notice of the Well, while it has a 5000 foot radius (sphere) and it definitely meant to be zone-wide, only has a target cap of 16. WAI or OOPS?
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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The problem is that it isn't supposed to be limited to 16 entities according to stated developer intentions.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Perhaps there is a way to ensure who gets the buff. Like perhaps the buff radiates from the person using the quills and hits the first 16 buff-able entities. If so then you might want to have the damage classes dropping the wells.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Did they actually say that? Or are we interpreting their intentions?
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The problem is that it isn't supposed to be limited to 16 entities according to stated developer intentions.
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The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I wish they would give us at least a little hint what they have in mind for this trial.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Given that I posted the following quote just above your where you posted this:|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Did they actually say that? Or are we interpreting their intentions?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Perhaps there is a way to ensure who gets the buff. Like perhaps the buff radiates from the person using the quills and hits the first 16 buff-able entities. If so then you might want to have the damage classes dropping the wells.
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Just so you don't have to go back, I'll post it again (highlight mine):
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
The Light of the Well exist for one purpose and one purpose only - for each one which is not currently present, the entire league receives a level shift. This allows Leagues playing through the trial without chasing after badges to more than compensate for Tyrant's +5 level shift - if they regularly take out all the lights, they can climb to 50+9, or +10 with Ultimate inspirations, during the course of the fight.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Has anyone here noticed a pattern here?
New trial comes out. It is slightly more difficult than last set. People come to forums. Much back and forth and I'm never gonna run it again hyperbole. An effective strat is worked out and posted. People follow it. People complete trial. It becomes easy and farmed.
Has happenned the last few trials I've seen. Not saying Tyrant shouldn't get a little nerf though. Just to try and open up access a bit.
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On Triumph, the highlighted portion hasn't happened for the following trials:|
Originally Posted by Trilby
New trial comes out. It is slightly more difficult than last set. People come to forums. Much back and forth and I'm never gonna run it again hyperbole. An effective strat is worked out and posted. People follow it. People complete trial. It becomes easy and farmed.
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- Underground.
- MoM
- To some extent DD.
- To doing TPN the "developer intended way" with people both in and outside of the buildings.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Because the power in question is flagged to only affect 16 targets according to 'real numbers.'|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Is the above post from Arbiter Hawk in any way unclear? What part of "the entire league" translates to 16 players on a 12-24 player trial?
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Now, I've seen such caps be ignored by the real mechanics and the 'real numbers' are wrong. I've also seen the 'real numbers' be correct and the Devs made a boo boo.
There is:
1. what it's supposed to do (Dev intention)
2. what it's reported to do by real numbers (a reporting system created by the devs so players can see the mechanics)
3. and what it actually does (as per player testing... done correctly)There have been, at times, one one, two, or all three things were not correct.
In this case:
1. It's supposed to affect all players and their pets
2. It has a 16 target cap.
3. Who knows? Player testing has been all over the map.
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Since 2004 and the Hamidon raids, the only difference being that there were a lot more people around coming to the forums at the time. Same song different year. |
Originally Posted by Trilby
Has anyone here noticed a pattern here?
New trial comes out. It is slightly more difficult than last set. People come to forums. Much back and forth and I'm never gonna run it again hyperbole. An effective strat is worked out and posted. People follow it. People complete trial. It becomes easy and farmed. Has happenned the last few trials I've seen. |
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I think I'm doing pretty good on predicting trial execution on Triumph, and I believe eventually Magi will end up somewhere around Keyes, with a comparable level of perceived execution complexity (and duration), but with a much higher level of required firepower.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
On Triumph, the highlighted portion hasn't happened for the following trials:
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In my mind, there's a "firepower" track of trials where the primary requirement for completion seems to be offensive and defensive firepower: Lambda, Underground, MoM. And a "finesse" track of trials: BAF, Keyes, DD, TPN: trials that rely more on specific tactics than massive offense or defense. Magisterium moreso than any other seems to be both a firepower trial and a finesse trial. On Triumph, requiring a league full of people/characters that can simultaneously satisfy both is going to make it unattractive once the demand for Hybrid unlock wanes. But I suspect that once the level of firepower required becomes common, it will be run more often than Underground and MoM. It doesn't seem to be as pointlessly and artificially long like Underground, its not as sensitive to a single player doing something suboptimal.
Even given my current success/fail ratio with Magisterium, I still don't hate it like I do Underground.
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Further Information about the possible level shift bug:
I took a league of 16 on a Mag yesterday and summoned NO PETS at all (No lores, decoys, any pets), we dropped Tyrant fast. I think we took out the lights 3 times before he was defeated. The 16 was 5 controllers, 1 blaster, 4 scrappers, 3 brutes, 2 tanks, and 1 stalker.
On the trial before that I saw my Spectral Terror at +9 but I was not, to me that's a bug. Pets are getting hit with the level shifts and "stealing" it from us.
Soon as I can run more and test this further I will. It DOES need more testing before being called a bug for sure. It does seem like it to me though.
Also Black Swan:
1) the Timer for the quills attack is broken, it randomly counts up sometimes. I've seen it count up to 23 seconds before she uses it.
2) She has two quill attacks. One seems to be a cone that strips level shifts, incarnate powers, and epic powers(I think epics) briefly. The other is the PBAOE that just strips level shifts. Getting hit by both of those can drop you to 50(-3.)
"A true hero has the strength to stand against evil
without wavering where all others despair,
even if it means standing alone." - Kragothe Valour
All that did was stiffed the majority of players in the real game and they are reacting.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.