To those who complained Tyrant was too easy...
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-05-31 14:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Then for the sake of all of the MMs who are going to be shut out of the trial (non-farm version) as soon as this percolates through the playerbase, I hope this bug is fixed soon.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Bzzzt wrong|
Originally Posted by Acemace
Since 2004 and the Hamidon raids, the only difference being that there were a lot more people around coming to the forums at the time. Same song different year.
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Keyes had to get nerfed so hard it was using foam as cooling rods before anyone would run it.
UG got nerfed and rewards boosted and its still not run often..
you were saying?
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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This deserves to be repeated before it gets lost in the back and forth. Thanks for reporting that, Kragothe; I'll do some testing tonight to see if I can get similar results and report back here.
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Originally Posted by Kragothe
Further Information about the possible level shift bug:
I took a league of 16 on a Mag yesterday and summoned NO PETS at all (No lores, decoys, any pets), we dropped Tyrant fast. I think we took out the lights 3 times before he was defeated. The 16 was 5 controllers, 1 blaster, 4 scrappers, 3 brutes, 2 tanks, and 1 stalker. On the trial before that I saw my Spectral Terror at +9 but I was not, to me that's a bug. Pets are getting hit with the level shifts and "stealing" it from us. Soon as I can run more and test this further I will. It DOES need more testing before being called a bug for sure. It does seem like it to me though. |
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Bzzzt wrong
Keyes had to get nerfed so hard it was using foam as cooling rods before anyone would run it. UG got nerfed and rewards boosted and its still not run often.. you were saying? |
Please put "on the server I play" when you make statements like this
On Liberty Keyes was run fairly often (as well as UG) before they got nerfed.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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Originally Posted by Kragothe
Further Information about the possible level shift bug:
I took a league of 16 on a Mag yesterday and summoned NO PETS at all (No lores, decoys, any pets), we dropped Tyrant fast. I think we took out the lights 3 times before he was defeated. The 16 was 5 controllers, 1 blaster, 4 scrappers, 3 brutes, 2 tanks, and 1 stalker. On the trial before that I saw my Spectral Terror at +9 but I was not, to me that's a bug. Pets are getting hit with the level shifts and "stealing" it from us. Soon as I can run more and test this further I will. It DOES need more testing before being called a bug for sure. It does seem like it to me though. ... |
Yes, like Paladin said, thanks for testing
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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It wouldn't even be accurate if he did that; from his previous posts, he's saying he plays on Virtue. There, we were running Keyes (still do) and still run Underground. He's just trying to use hyperbole to stir up enough forum drama to nerf something he doesn't like. Which would be fine if he wasn't so deceitful about it.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Please put "on the server I play" when you make statements like this
On Liberty Keyes was run fairly often (as well as UG) before they got nerfed. |
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
Quote:
sort of, but if it wasnt such a big problem, why did they feel the need to nerf it to get people to play it.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Please put "on the server I play" when you make statements like this
On Liberty Keyes was run fairly often (as well as UG) before they got nerfed. |
I think the problem was a little more widespread than just what I was observing personally.
I play on virtue and freedom, if both of them are doing the same thing, although that its not the majority of players its a very big portion.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Oh come on I remember on virtue pre nerf, people would try to form keyes pickups just to keep loosing players to other people starting baf/lams.
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Originally Posted by Paladin
It wouldn't even be accurate if he did that; from his previous posts, he's saying he plays on Virtue. There, we were running Keyes (still do) and still run Underground. He's just trying to use hyperbole to stir up enough forum drama to nerf something he doesn't like. Which would be fine if he wasn't so deceitful about it.
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Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
sort of, but if it wasnt such a big problem, why did they feel the need to nerf it to get people to play it.
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Squeaky wheel gets the grease?
I still think almost all of the iTrials could use some touch-up/fixes/additions to them but in general they're all fine (except for the "bug" in the Mag. trial of the level shifts not going to all league-mates/pets like we think it should).
I still think Keyes has one of the best final boss fights out of all the iTrials.
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
SSBB FC: 2062-8881-3944
MKW FC: 4167-4891-5991
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I can appreciate the frustration, but my experience with Keyes was that there were people willing to do it but not enough leaders willing to risk the weight of a failed trial. Which is understandable, and what we're seeing with Magisterium and other trials during the first few weeks. And there were some who were happy to jump ship for a BAF, it's true. But Pacific evenings were and are prime time for forming just about anything - you've got to be patient for other trials to finish, but 10-15 minutes is enough to get most things off of the ground.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Oh come on I remember on virtue pre nerf, people would try to form keyes pickups just to keep loosing players to other people starting baf/lams.
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The catch is getting people to run them; waiting around for someone else to form things can lead to a long wait.
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
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Originally Posted by Trilby
Has anyone here noticed a pattern here?
New trial comes out. It is slightly more difficult than last set. People come to forums. Much back and forth and I'm never gonna run it again hyperbole. An effective strat is worked out and posted. People follow it. People complete trial. It becomes easy and farmed. Has happenned the last few trials I've seen. Not saying Tyrant shouldn't get a little nerf though. Just to try and open up access a bit. |
Actually, no, I haven't seen that pattern. I have seen a pattern of people saying that is a pattern, but not that actual pattern.
The actual pattern is either the complaints or the datamining or both eventually result in changes either to the trial itself to make it more attractive and/or easier, the buffing of rewards, or proposed changes to nerf trials that are more popular.
Let's not forget how narrowly we evaded a nerf for BAF and Lambda that would have eliminated drops after unlocking certain slots. That outcome is important to remember for two reasons: it was proposed precisely because people were not running other trials in sufficient volumes, and it was revoked because players complained. People tend to count that as zero changes to trials when in fact it is 4: two to add the effect in, and two more to remove it.
In this case it sounds like something is probably wonky, and if its the target cap, that's yet another change.
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My experience is different. I can only talk about what I saw on Virtue and Justice, but 'Lam Farms' was nothing like the amount of 'lf Magi farm' broadcast. I'm not sure who you mean by 'most of us', a server, all servers, or the people on your global chans.|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Actually the first few days most of us were more interested in Interface/Destiny than Judgement/Lore so we tried Lambda first - and found that the final battle was nigh-impossible without any incarnate shifts or judgements (it was FFG stacking overload - the Battle Orbs kept boosting Defense to an almost infinite amount) so we just farmed the outside stuff to get iXP since we had run BAF about 9000 times each.
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There werent any threads complaining about farming Lam - a lot of other complaint threads about grinding sure.
After day 2, there really wasnt that many fails either. Lots of deaths and fustration at collecting temps, but the trial still got finished.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
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Keyes had to get nerfed so hard it was using foam as cooling rods before anyone would run it. UG got nerfed and rewards boosted and its still not run often.. you were saying? |
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Please put "on the server I play" when you make statements like this
On Liberty Keyes was run fairly often (as well as UG) before they got nerfed. |
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Originally Posted by Paladin
It wouldn't even be accurate if he did that; from his previous posts, he's saying he plays on Virtue. There, we were running Keyes (still do) and still run Underground. He's just trying to use hyperbole to stir up enough forum drama to nerf something he doesn't like. Which would be fine if he wasn't so deceitful about it.
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To be fair, *I* only ran Keyes on my badgers for designated badge runs - I quickly grew tired of going to the hospital 6 times a trial with my blaster. It wasn't hard - we had no difficulty completing the goals in time, and the final battle was nothing more than a curbstomp - it's just that pulse was so unpleasant I boycotted the trial out of spite (again, not counting badge runs).
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Please put "on the server I play" when you make statements like this
On Liberty Keyes was run fairly often (as well as UG) before they got nerfed. |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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The closest thing I ever saw to Lam farming on Virtue was when people clearing the streets, court yards, and turrets. Then we proceeded with the trial until completion. That used to be the standard run until speed Lams took over. I never saw anyone announce a Lam farm, in fact.
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Originally Posted by tanstaafl
My experience is different. I can only talk about what I saw on Virtue and Justice, but 'Lam Farms' was nothing like the amount of 'lf Magi farm' broadcast. I'm not sure who you mean by 'most of us', a server, all servers, or the people on your global chans.
There werent any threads complaining about farming Lam - a lot of other complaint threads about grinding sure. After day 2, there really wasnt that many fails either. Lots of deaths and fustration at collecting temps, but the trial still got finished. |
I don't mind testing at all, this is the first trial that something didn't seem right with. I appreciate the help testing this too.
I just ran another with 24 and again used zero pets, the light coverage wasn't very good at all. We killed tyrant with 12 minutes left. It was kind of tough, but we didn't seem to hit that spot where he is untouchable.
"A true hero has the strength to stand against evil
without wavering where all others despair,
even if it means standing alone." - Kragothe Valour
This game is generally so easy, I think a lot of people got used to steamrolling everything they did. Now that there's content that's designed not to be steamrolled, they can't handle a defeat. Their reactions to defeat are similar to people in real life that never hear the word 'No.' When someone finally denies them something, they can't handle it at first, and then they either learn from that and grow, or they stay stagnant and defiant, blaming others for their failure.
You learn more from failing than you do from winning. Look at any inventor for an example. You might have gotten lucky and won the first time, or you might have done it right, but you'll never know. If you fail, you at least eliminate one possibility that didn't work. The fact that there's generally successful Leagues that can win more often than not says that figuring out this Trial can be done. The question becomes: Are you going to learn from mistakes, and adapt strategy, or are you going to do things the way you've done them in the past, expecting different results the next time? Glitches don't prevent victory every time. If they did, this Trial wouldn't be live right now.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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I don't believe that you really do play on Virtue because that is super wrong. Pick up magis have been extremely popular 24/7 since issue 23 went live in much the same way that all trials are always forming at all hours. They're going to continue to be popular because the trial is short, easy, gives two emps and is of course the only way to unlock hybrid. Remember when DD was too hard for anyone to beat? Yeah, nobody runs that on Virtue anymore!
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
I play on virtue and freedom, if both of them are doing the same thing, although that its not the majority of players its a very big portion.
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There have been a lot of MoMAGs running on Freedom the past few days. It seems there is less Mag Farms going on and more actual Mag trials. Like most trials..after a few days...people figure things out more and success rates go up...so more tend to be ran.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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I suspect there's a perception that if the trial isn't being farmed like BAF/LAM then it's not popular.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I don't believe that you really do play on Virtue because that is super wrong. Pick up magis have been extremely popular 24/7 since issue 23 went live in much the same way that all trials are always forming at all hours. They're going to continue to be popular because the trial is short, easy, gives two emps and is of course the only way to unlock hybrid. Remember when DD was too hard for anyone to beat? Yeah, nobody runs that on Virtue anymore!
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Let's Dance!
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UG got nerfed on live how, exactly?|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
UG got nerfed and rewards boosted and its still not run often..
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At this point, people don't play the UGT primarily because it's really long. I like playing it because of the guaranteed rare or VR, but even I sometimes have to pass on it because of the duration.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
On Thursday/Friday I cant remember which cos it was very late and I had ran several Magesterium Trials both nights, I joined a Hybrid farm. The leader didnt ask for any shifts or powersets, we just needed 12 to start.
A call went out on various channels and 12 people joined one of which was dual boxing, so we had 11 players.
After the 250 mobs one person dropped, the rest of us decided to carry on to see how far we could get.
The 3 AV's were slow going, and we visited the hospital a couple a few times, Black swan caused no problems, and so we decided to carry on.
6 Players on lights immediately when they spawned, then rejoining the melee fight with the other 4 players, backing away when we say the Air Crackles warning then straight back in melee when it had gone, Lore pets out when we hit the mid 20% mark, job done 
There may be some "mechanism" not working in this trial, as I said before I'm not a number cruncher so I have no idea, but any league with EVERYONE in it focussing on the task and getting the timings right should be able to complete it.
@kisana
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An 11 man league would all receive the necessary shifts, and without knowing what your League makeup was (ironically, I've noticed farms running with higher than average support toon makeup), it's impossible to tell - it may have been luck of the draw, but you may have pulled 2 rads, a thermal, a cold, and a couple sonic attack defenders (to go with the rad/cold).|
Originally Posted by Kisana
There may be some "mechanism" not working in this trial, as I said before I'm not a number cruncher so I have no idea, but any league with EVERYONE in it focussing on the task and getting the timings right should be able to complete it.
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Without knowing your make up you can't just claim the trial is working because you've beaten it with 11 - Lambda was duoed already, and I've competed Lambda with an 8 man team with NO ONE in the league being +3 (it was when iXP was bugged with more than one team, so we all needed destiny).
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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I am actually curious if anybody has been able to do a MoMag in a single run as that seems a pretty tall ask |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
There have been a lot of MoMAGs running on Freedom the past few days. It seems there is less Mag Farms going on and more actual Mag trials. Like most trials..after a few days...people figure things out more and success rates go up...so more tend to be ran.
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@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
I asked about what part of Arbiter Hawk's post was unclear, and you come back with "because the power says this". The question wasn't directed at implementation, only the stated goal. It is very clear that the two aren't agreeing:
- The stated goal is that the entire league gets the buff.
- The implementation is set to 16, which is less than the entire league.
What you just said was that because the implementation does X, then a clear statement is unclear.There is:There have been, at times, one one, two, or all three things were not correct.
In this case:
- Is quite clear, yet people are telling others that the clearly worded developer intention doesn't mean what it says.
- It is mostly clear that this is exactly what is happening, so the power seems to be functioning as the power describes (which takes care of #3).
I've seen all 6 level shifts, I've seen none. The power itself is random, which is not as stated.Actually the same goes for the debuff that Black Swan has. During the Black Swan encounter it is variable as to what happens to the player, no matter what distance the player is in relation to her:
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters