City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

To those who complained Tyrant was too easy...

Acemace

By Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-05-31 14:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
That was the players' fault. You get a 5 second warning for each lightning strike "Air crackles...". If people run then the strikes are spread out and away from Tyrant and then everyone rushes back in to attack. No one dies. Tyrant doesn't heal. Strikes don't stack and insta-gank anyone.
Coming back to previous comments, I noticed in a second run that there are screen-letters warning you to back up on both AoEs, it seems...but they don't show up unless you're close to him. I got hit a few times by them because I was running back to the battle after using a Quill. Perhaps there needs to be wider range on the warning?

 

Posted

went 1 for 5, started 6 but 1 ended with a league mapserver and did 2 farms.
think it is the worst trial of the bunch, and once people get done badging doubt many will do full runs again. even if it does become easier. Just nothing special about it, other than annoying.

 

Posted

I'm taking a break from leading runs on Virtue to report in as promised. Tyrant IS noticeably more difficult during the home stretch, but not too much for a grande finale of a trial. The best way I can articulate the difference between this run and beta is that in Beta, it took a few people who knew what they were doing to succeed. Now it's a full league effort on live.

Tyrant's regeneration stalls leagues even with the Light of the Wells down; previously the only stalling happened when leagues were going after The Really Hard Way runs. The amped up regeneration wasn't even a speed bump, and the only time his health yo-yoed was on a Really Hard Way run.

I personally like the changes, but people should be aware that when they finish this trial they're doing it at nearly the same difficulty as "The Really Hard Way" was on Beta. That may just be because leagues aren't used to the content yet and are making simple mistakes, they're bringing non-T4 Destinies, etc. Rads are a good help as you'd think.

Like The Really Hard Way runs on beta, I can offer some advice on running this trial to hopefully make the Tyrant fight a little more bearable.

1) Save your Lore Pets until you can no longer overcome Tyrant's regeneration. This way you don't waste them getting to as point you could have reached without the lore pets, and instead use them to make a final push. If everyone uses them together, it can make the trial wrap up quickly.

2) Move as soon as "The Air Crackles Around Tyrant" message appears. This isn't a test of character survivability - some melee can survive multiple patches, but half of the league won't be able to. And if there are patches all around Tyrant then the damage those people could have contributed to offset his regeneration is lost.

3) Don't camp Light of the wells. Instead, people should be fighting Tyrant until the lights are about to spawn, and then have a select few people putting the lights out. This is to keep your team from losing out on the damage they can contribute versus Tyrant's regeneration.

4) Let people know that the hit point bar lies. Folks have been conditioned to think "50% health means 50% of the battle is over." That's not the case on this trial, and that misunderstanding can lead to some morale failures if folks don't know what to expect. 30% is about the halfway point of the trial, if that. Warn people not to be discouraged by the hit point tug of war going on.

I hope this helps, and that you have a lot more success over the weekend.

The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted

@Paladin

 

Posted

Its a fail fest on every league ive run today.

Its time to whine at the devs till they nerf the heck out of it.

Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.

 

Posted

The other thing to note, you don't actually have to drop him to 0%. At 10% the battle is over and he shifts to his 54-8 phase.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
People have said here that ground rooting patches of death were "easy" to get away from... Guess they were wrong lol.
lol

I usually am lucky enough to be in the company of some very good players on freedom ( Darth you were there :P ) and we couldn't get his health below 12% and we had all the lights covered. We tried with 24 and then 12 people with the same result, fail.

I would hate to try this trial on a pug, I already dislike it. The thing starts out fun then it goes way south to unfun once you get to Tyrant.

I have 12 50's that need to open Hybrid so im not a happy camper!

Scataloni Volt
Scataloni
Scataloni Tank
Scataloni Arrow
Rad Scataloni

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Tyrant's regeneration stalls leagues even with the Light of the Wells down; previously the only stalling happened when leagues were going after The Really Hard Way runs. The amped up regeneration wasn't even a speed bump, and the only time his health yo-yoed was on a Really Hard Way run.
And it needs to be toned down again. I get that the "really hard way" should be tough, but the main non-badge trial SHOULD NOT BE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I personally like the changes, but people should be aware that when they finish this trial they're doing it at nearly the same difficulty as "The Really Hard Way" was on Beta. That may just be because leagues aren't used to the content yet and are making simple mistakes, they're bringing non-T4 Destinies, etc. Rads are a good help as you'd think.
The entire league should NOT have to be bringing T4s to the trial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Like The Really Hard Way runs on beta, I can offer some advice on running this trial to hopefully make the Tyrant fight a little more bearable.
Given that the 4 leagues I was on tonight (with some of the team able to do it this afternoon) did as you instructed here, the difficulty is far too high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
1) Save your Lore Pets until you can no longer overcome Tyrant's regeneration. This way you don't waste them getting to as point you could have reached without the lore pets, and instead use them to make a final push. If everyone uses them together, it can make the trial wrap up quickly.
Didn't they also cap the regen the pets did?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
2) Move as soon as "The Air Crackles Around Tyrant" message appears. This isn't a test of character survivability - some melee can survive multiple patches, but half of the league won't be able to. And if there are patches all around Tyrant then the damage those people could have contributed to offset his regeneration is lost.
Due to the unacceptable amount of lag (I was getting 2-3 FPS), I didn't usually SEE the warning until the lightning strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
3) Don't camp Light of the wells. Instead, people should be fighting Tyrant until the lights are about to spawn, and then have a select few people putting the lights out. This is to keep your team from losing out on the damage they can contribute versus Tyrant's regeneration.
People kept attacking the lights with regular powers. The temp power is NOT explained properly. And even WITH the pop-up tray, people were asking where the power was.

The trial was fun during early beta. It now isn't. That is a failure on the developer's part.



Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Who said they were rooting? Don't don't root. Guess you are wrong. lol.
LOL the people dying and complaining to the point where on the first day people are farming the trial solely for xp and skipping the entire Tyrant encounter. Guess they were right to skip such a poorly put together encounter and not have to worry about being rooted or lagged to death anymore. YMMV.

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duneman View Post
lol

I usually am lucky enough to be in the company of some very good players on freedom ( Darth you were there :P ) and we couldn't get his health below 12% and we had all the lights covered. We tried with 24 and then 12 people with the same result, fail.

I would hate to try this trial on a pug, I already dislike it. The thing starts out fun then it goes way south to unfun once you get to Tyrant.

I have 12 50's that need to open Hybrid so im not a happy camper!
I have 40 50's and 39 of them still need it. I think I will only do a few with hybrid for now and wait until they free up the methods to unlock the slot since the trial is a unmitigated bust. It was on BETA too but they only were listening to like 3-4 people that wanted the end boss fight from hell.

Well you 3-4 people good luck finding people that want to do anything other than farm the fugger after today. Nice job.....

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
I thought that was Minds of Mayhem?
Mom is a bust and annoying, but its very easily avoidable.

you have to do magi.... and the trail sucks you will to live and play and stay subscribed.

Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Mom is a bust and annoying, but its very easily avoidable.

you have to do magi.... and the trail sucks you will to live and play and stay subscribed.
I would have to agree with you on this point. MOM is/was a bust but at least we were not forced to run it like we are being with MAG. No worries there are plenty of Hybrid xp farms running.....when the LFG queue is not bugged that is....

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
I would have to agree with you on this point. MOM is/was a bust but at least we were not forced to run it like we are being with MAG. No worries there are plenty of Hybrid xp farms running.....when the LFG queue is not bugged that is....
running the first 10 minutes of the trial then aborting is a fun sucking boring disaster...

really did no one even think this was going to be a problem.

Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.

 

Posted

Hm... I've seen this song and dance before.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
running the first 10 minutes of the trial then aborting is a fun sucking boring disaster...

really did no one even think this was going to be a problem.
Yes, some did point this out in BETA. They were either attacked/shouted down by the vocal hardcore end boss camp or ignored by the devs who made the encounter harder when 3-4 "special" people begged them to do so. POUND SAND the rest of the majority of COX players, our "special" group of players has demanded a tougher encounter for ALL.

I think the best thing to do is what the overall majority of the people did with the LAM by running SLAMS. The MAG is now being run as a SMAG(Speed MAG) and will continue to be run this way since there really is no reason to run the Tyrant encounter outside of the badge.

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Coming back to previous comments, I noticed in a second run that there are screen-letters warning you to back up on both AoEs, it seems...but they don't show up unless you're close to him. I got hit a few times by them because I was running back to the battle after using a Quill. Perhaps there needs to be wider range on the warning?
Almost all the trial AVs are like that. You won't get a warning about Marauder's Nova Fist unless you are near him.

It might be some mechanical thing, where the warning is related to a radius of the power, but the lightning strikes have an effect outside the "normal" radius. (Clearly they effect everyone.) I usually saw a warning, but sometimes didn't if I was off at the edge of the crater dealing with pillars of light.

Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Yes, some did point this out in BETA. They were either attacked/shouted down by the vocal hardcore end boss camp or ignored by the devs who made the encounter harder when 3-4 "special" people begged them to do so. POUND SAND the rest of the majority of COX players, our "special" group of players has demanded a tougher encounter for ALL.
That characterization is not accurate.

Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Who said they were rooting? Don't don't root. Guess you are wrong. lol.
LOL the people dying and complaining to the point where on the first day people are farming the trial solely for xp and skipping the entire Tyrant encounter. Guess they were right to skip such a poorly put together encounter and not have to worry about being rooted or lagged to death anymore. YMMV.
The power used against you doesn't root you. Could you provide a quote of someone who said it did, cause it sounds like you're just making stuff up at this point.

Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
That characterization is not accurate.
Yeah, the numbers are slightly off. There were a few more vocal hardcore players complaining repeatedly that the trial was too easy.

The vocal hardcore said that the next trial would be "easier". This is clearly bunk. These are the same people that left us with two nearly unplayed trials already (Underground and MoM are seldom played on some servers) and because of their arrogance Keyes had to be nerfed to the extreme to get players to actually do the trial on a regular basis.

Edit:
My feedback from Beta stands:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight View Post
For me personally, there has always been a relatively level amount of difficulty across the board for all end-game Task Forces. Statesman, Lady Grey, Imperious, Mender Silos and the like have always been enjoyable group activities not because there was an increasing difficulty curve to challenge the base, but because the enemies, environments, and obstacles were diverse.
And this is what completely ticks me off about the Incarnate Trials. Despite people claiming otherwise, the next trial will be more difficult. Why? It is because of how the trials are set up right now.

Instead of having several Incarnate Trials of equal strength, what we have is an Incarnate Trial Arc consisting of Apex -> Tin Mage -> BAF -> Lambda -> Keyes -> Underground -> TPN -> MoM -> DD -> Magisterium. We've already been told that the future content is supposed to be even more difficult thanks to the fact that we will have to deal with Praetorian Hami and the coming Battalion, not to mention what comes after. They are set on a course of progressively more difficult Trials, and likely will be for the next year at least.

This is exactly the wrong course for the average player. This is the wrong course for what is supposed to be the star content for a game that has built its reputation on being casual-friendly. People are leaving the game faster than new players are coming in. My global friends list has fewer and fewer players active as time goes on. The same can be said of the global channels I belong to.

Look at the alpha incarnate tasks: LGTF, ITF, STF, RSF, Cuda, Khan, CoP, Hami Raids, and Mothership Raids. They are all relatively equal to each other in terms of difficulty (though Cuda is the most tricky of the group, and Hami requires the most people). Players are still actively doing most of those across all servers. The same can't be said about the iTrials.

Incarnate Trials are niche content. All the developers are doing by increasing the difficulty is reducing the amount of players willing to put up with the trials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight View Post
Likewise, zone events such as the Hamidon, Rikti Mothership, and occasional Invasion provided open opportunities for players to collaborate with few developmental requirements. As such, beyond standard character levels (which these days behave more like an extended tutorial) there were no content barriers in place with standard content. That openness has always been a huge draw for this game.
This is a point that seems to be continually lost on the development team and by a number of beta players.



Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
That characterization is not accurate.
I think it is a good characterization, but I'll go with what Snow said he is always better at hammering home these kinds of things than me anyway.

"Yeah, the numbers are slightly off. There were a few more vocal hardcore players complaining repeatedly that the trial was too easy.

The vocal hardcore said that the next trial would be "easier". This is clearly bunk. These are the same people that left us with two nearly unplayed trials already (Underground and MoM are seldom played on some servers) and because of their arrogance Keyes had to be nerfed to the extreme to get players to actually do the trial on a regular basis."

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
running the first 10 minutes of the trial then aborting is a fun sucking boring disaster...

really did no one even think this was going to be a problem.
I figured out this would happen the first day of beta.

Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Yeah, the numbers are slightly off. There were a few more vocal hardcore players complaining repeatedly that the trial was too easy.

Edit:
My feedback from Beta stands:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei View Post
Yes it is.
No, you're both wrong.

There were no 'hard core' elite demanding it be harder. The feedback was that it was too easy. And it was *demonstrably* too easy when Tyrant was easier to defeat than Black Swan. Numbers don't lie. And the number of seconds to defeat Tyrant was less than the number of seconds to defeat Black Swan.

And Black Swan isn't difficult at all.

It was empirically too easy for the second most powerful being in Praetoria.

Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

Posted

Yeah, the first day they introduced The Really Hard Way, beta teams were pulling it off first try.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
The power used against you doesn't root you. Could you provide a quote of someone who said it did, cause it sounds like you're just making stuff up at this point.
The people on my team in the game some were saying it was rooting or lagging them out as I said. No need to make things up there is enough wrong here without the need to do that. Looks like you are once again fishing for a fight with me but it is not going to work.

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
No, you're both wrong.

There were no 'hard core' elite demanding it be harder. The feedback was that it was too easy. And it was *demonstrably* too easy when Tyrant was easier to defeat than Black Swan. Numbers don't lie. And the number of seconds to defeat Tyrant was less than the number of seconds to defeat Black Swan.

And Black Swan isn't difficult at all.

It was empirically too easy for the second most powerful being in Praetoria.
Making Tyrant 54 +5 with gimmicks up the wazu has made people just farm the 250 and reset. Some people tried to tell the devs this was not a good idea and the way people have decided not to play the trial is proof of what was told to the devs and the people looking for this to be a hardcore end game boss fight. It's unfun and people are responding in kind.

Dress that up and put whatever makeup on it you want.

The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.