To those who complained Tyrant was too easy...
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2012-05-31 14:21 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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There are some exclusive weapon recipes that drop here. There's a titan weapon called Excalibur that drops off of Nega-Pendragon, and Maelstrom's Pistol (I don't know where this drops). Both of them seem to have low drop rates, although someone did find an excalibur recipe on the first run I was in.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Adding a few costume parts as exclusive Magisterium reward table choices might help
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Maelstrom drops his recipe in the TPN.
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Originally Posted by BiohazardZero
There are some exclusive weapon recipes that drop here. There's a titan weapon called Excalibur that drops off of Nega-Pendragon, and Maelstrom's Pistol (I don't know where this drops). Both of them seem to have low drop rates, although someone did find an excalibur recipe on the first run I was in.
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@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
The Trial doesn't require people to have T4s, or even T3s in everything. However, it does require a certain level of teamwork, power, and planning. If you lack a team that can work together, you can offset that with enough additional power - which in this case is asking for people to bring their +3 characters with T4 abilities, particularly Barrier or Rebirth and a T4 Damage Lore Pet.
Ran about 10 of these last night. It was a lot of fun, but we did fail on one league when I didn't give a proper run-down of what to expect during Tyrant's fight. We lost about 3 people per lightning strike, and had someone using Incandescence during the Tyrant phase.. repeatedly, despite instructions to stop in league and tells. Communication of what to expect during the fight against the Well's champion is important.
The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
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I also wouldn't have made the trail the only source for the XP.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
In an ideal world, they would have given us another trial and/or some other way to earn iXP for Hybrid. For whatever reason, they didn't. I'm neither supporting nor condemning that decision, because I don't know what went into it.
I can tell you that if was in charge of design, God help us all, and all the other things we have going on were handed down to me from on high (one iTrial, no new iSalvage, new iTrial the only source of Hybrid unlock) we wouldn't be able to farm it like that. The reward would be better distributed through the trial. And frankly, a lot of people who are farming it right now would probably be annoyed by that, because right now they have an easy path to unlock that I wouldn't have given them. |
I would also have put in GG's costume drop suggestion for those who like that sort of thing.
I also would have added something a little extra. The final battle with the Final boss should MEAN something a bit more.
/shrug.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Im also assuming you wouldnt have been daft enough to buff the trial right before live then rush it live to get it in by the end of the month and not actually test it.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
In an ideal world, they would have given us another trial and/or some other way to earn iXP for Hybrid. For whatever reason, they didn't. I'm neither supporting nor condemning that decision, because I don't know what went into it.
I can tell you that if was in charge of design, God help us all, and all the other things we have going on were handed down to me from on high (one iTrial, no new iSalvage, new iTrial the only source of Hybrid unlock) we wouldn't be able to farm it like that. The reward would be better distributed through the trial. And frankly, a lot of people who are farming it right now would probably be annoyed by that, because right now they have an easy path to unlock that I wouldn't have given them. |
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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And the developers, as usual, went overboard in correcting the issue. See my next point.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
No, you're both wrong.
There were no 'hard core' elite demanding it be harder. The feedback was that it was too easy. And it was *demonstrably* too easy when Tyrant was easier to defeat than Black Swan. Numbers don't lie. And the number of seconds to defeat Tyrant was less than the number of seconds to defeat Black Swan. And Black Swan isn't difficult at all. It was empirically too easy for the second most powerful being in Praetoria. |
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Originally Posted by Agent White
Yeah, the first day they introduced The Really Hard Way, beta teams were pulling it off first try.
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Good job there.
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Originally Posted by Demobot
I'm seeing complaints that are pretty much identical to those made when BAF and Lambda came out, which tells me that within a month your average pug will be facerolling this.
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More to the point, we have trials with wildly different levels of difficulty. Instead of what we had with the Alpha tasks (most of them are being done equally), what we have with BAF on is a progression that nearly has to be done sequentially.
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Originally Posted by bpphantom
Quills and taking down the lights. It's not that tough, it just requires people to pay attention, MOVE around and to actually be a real incarnate.
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- Indications of player level shift status when the lights are defeated. I monitor my level shift. I couldn't see me being any more effective no matter the status of the lights. Instead of changing the level shifts of the players, destroying the lights should reduce Tyrant's level shifts.
- Indication of using regular attacks vs the lights. Every time I looked, some scrapper was trying to melee a light, even after repeated warnings that it would do no good.
- Indication as to what the quills should be used for. Again, despite many explanations, people didn't know what to do with them. A couple people couldn't even find the power for several minutes.
- Indication as to what the hospital penalty is in the final battle.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I would also have put in GG's costume drop suggestion for those who like that sort of thing.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I want to especially focus on this point.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Indications of player level shift status when the lights are defeated. I monitor my level shift. I couldn't see me being any more effective no matter the status of the lights. Instead of changing the level shifts of the players, destroying the lights should reduce Tyrant's level shifts.
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There are reports that destroying a Well of Light doesn't give a league wide level shift. The same reports are saying that the buff is only for the team that kills the light, and even then only in an AoE centered on the light. If these reports are accurate, then they should be fixed.
Ideally, what should happen is that for each Well of Light that is defeated, Tyrant should have his level shift reduced. After all, we aren't empowering ourselves. By severing Tyrant's access to the well we are supposed to be making HIM weaker, not ourselves stronger.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I don't actually think that's the case. We've stolen the quills from Black Swan, and she goes on about killing us with our own powers. We're using the Quills on the Wells, so I think we are supposed to be stealing the power for use against Tyrant.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Ideally, what should happen is that for each Well of Light that is defeated, Tyrant should have his level shift reduced. After all, we aren't empowering ourselves. By severing Tyrant's access to the well we are supposed to be making HIM weaker, not ourselves stronger.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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They asked for this to be farmed the second they made it the sole way to get the ixp needed. Even my non-trial friends are farming the GD thing. And yes they were informed about it and given suggestions on how to do it better in BETA. They ignored them and went went the vocal Hardcore end arc tough boss crowd and deserve to see the trial run by the majority of the people in game as a front loaded farm.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
In an ideal world, they would have given us another trial and/or some other way to earn iXP for Hybrid. For whatever reason, they didn't. I'm neither supporting nor condemning that decision, because I don't know what went into it.
I can tell you that if was in charge of design, God help us all, and all the other things we have going on were handed down to me from on high (one iTrial, no new iSalvage, new iTrial the only source of Hybrid unlock) we wouldn't be able to farm it like that. The reward would be better distributed through the trial. And frankly, a lot of people who are farming it right now would probably be annoyed by that, because right now they have an easy path to unlock that I wouldn't have given them. |
It is not about the difficulty it is about the fact that what people are trying to get (the ixp) is frontloaded in the IDF 250, there is nothing that can be done about that. There was nothing done about people on the LAM clearing ALL of the enemy outside for the xp and resetting although admittedly it was rare because the rest of the trial is balanced where they went completely overboard with the MAG and is why the resets are the way to go.
In terms of what you or the next guy would have done to limit players ixp, that is the "exact" wrong way to look at this deal and when the devs do it, it turns stinky fast.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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This is correct.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
We're using the Quills on the Wells, so I think we are supposed to be stealing the power for use against Tyrant.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I don't think you'd disagree that the level shifts should be zone/league wide and that the shifts should be noticeable, am I right?|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I don't actually think that's the case. We've stolen the quills from Black Swan, and she goes on about killing us with our own powers. We're using the Quills on the Wells, so I think we are supposed to be stealing the power for use against Tyrant.
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And none of this excuses pushing the -regen resist change live without testing (I just checked all the beta patch notes and it wasn't in any of them) to see if changing the -regen resist with the other changes was actually good for the trial.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Classic developer tactic|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I don't think you'd disagree that the level shifts should be zone/league wide and that the shifts should be noticeable, am I right?
And none of this excuses pushing the -regen resist change live without testing (I just checked all the beta patch notes and it wasn't in any of them) to see if changing the -regen resist with the other changes was actually good for the trial. |
If it's not beneficial to players push it live test it later...
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Indeed. If it is not league wide/zone wide, I feel bad for not catching that in beta. If they are zone wide/league wide, they are eminently noticeable, there is monitor in the window showing how many lights are out.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I don't think you'd disagree that the level shifts should be zone/league wide and that the shifts should be noticeable, am I right?
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
And none of this excuses pushing the -regen resist change live without testing (I just checked all the beta patch notes and it wasn't in any of them) to see if changing the -regen resist with the other changes was actually good for the trial.
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We won with modest difficulty (we actually tried for about 4 minutes to do it without killing the lights with predictably poor results). The league had a few that had never done it and we were running with only 14 people. It was done in the early AM EDT.
Once we started keeping the lights out and avoiding the lightning, it was hard, but manageable. On a PuG league, not optimized, with new people to the trial.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I honestly can't tell what's up with the level shifts. I'm not sure if they're bugged so that they don't work all the time, or if it's just something we're not doing. I think you know that I'm never a fan of raid mechanics that are poorly explained, though you and I have different thresholds on "poorness" in that regard.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I don't think you'd disagree that the level shifts should be zone/league wide and that the shifts should be noticeable, am I right?
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But I agree that the level shifts should be noticeable without having to monitor your attributes (some visual effect). If they are not zone wide, there should be some indicator of where you have to be to get them. I tried all sorts of different things and sometimes I got a shift per pillar, and sometimes I got none. I don't know what controlled it or why, and that's not cool.
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| And none of this excuses pushing the -regen resist change live without testing (I just checked all the beta patch notes and it wasn't in any of them) to see if changing the -regen resist with the other changes was actually good for the trial. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That's your opinion. I think your opinion on how to handle this situation would suck the hydrogen out of deep space. You don't build one way to do something and make its most important reward front-loaded. That's idiotic. And yes, I'm baldly saying I think they were dumb for doing it this way.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
In terms of what you or the next guy would have done to limit players ixp, that is the "exact" wrong way to look at this deal and when the devs do it, it turns stinky fast.
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In an ideal world, you give multiple ways to achieve something like this. But in an unideal world, you don't also go out of your way to facilitate explicit farming. Running anything over and over for reward is arguably farming, but you don't build it so they intentionally abort it in the middle to maximize reward.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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It was tested.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
I actually didn't know that wasn't tested. They discussed that change long ago, so I thought it had long since made it to beta. Is that not the case?
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The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
Near impossible? I beat him 4 out of 4 times last night, on a PuG.
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Its too hard, its not fun and encourages aborting the trial early to maximize reward.|
Originally Posted by Stone Daemon
Near impossible? I beat him 4 out of 4 times last night, on a PuG.
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I never said it was impossible just very poorly designed and put together.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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The OP said it though.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Its too hard, its not fun and encourages aborting the trial early to maximize reward.
I never said it was impossible just very poorly designed and put together. |
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Zing!
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
As far as I know, the only person who ever claimed that Tyrant was easy was his granddaughter.
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Hahaha on virtue, two leagues are trying to put together a farm and a full trial at the same time, they are fighting like crazy, getting the wrong people, people are leaving on the real trial and trying to kill the bosses on the farm.
This couldnt be any funnier if it tried.....
I dont even know how the devs came up with this disasterous trial, but its an almost endless source of amusement.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Yeah, because that's such a clear indication of how this trial is a disaster. Nothing like that ever happens with other TFs or trials, right?
Give it up, dude. Personally, I don't believe your reasons for not liking the trial, but that's neither here nor there. You're allowed to dislike it. You disliking it does not equate to it being some kind of disaster by the devs. Stop acting like it is, and trying to cast people's normal shenanigans as though they're proof of it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I dont remember seeing this with Baf, but I didnt start doing them till a week or two in, so that could be the reason.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Yeah, because that's such a clear indication of how this trial is a disaster. Nothing like that ever happens with other TFs or trials, right?
Give it up, dude. Personally, I don't believe your reasons for not liking the trial, but that's neither here nor there. You're allowed to dislike it. You disliking it does not equate to it being some kind of disaster by the devs. Stop acting like it is, and trying to cast people's normal shenanigans as though they're proof of it. |
Why would I stop, in general hyperbole and exagerated examples are much more effective at swaying people than rational arguments.
Rational arguments might work better on the devs, but on forum readers who are on the edge about an issue, trial disaster horror stories might make them start thinking, you know this trial isnt really that good.
Then before you know it, Tyrant gets his pants nerfed off, luckily he isnt sticking it in our face on the splash screen when they do.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
For a quick visual effect change, they could use one of the level up effects. Jumping six level shifts at the same time is probably the biggest power jump you get in the game, even if it's temporary. Give it some fanfare.
Or at least one of those popups.
"ALL LIGHTS OF THE WELL DEFEATED! +6 LEVEL SHIFT TO EVERYONE!"
Now that one would get attention, I think.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
I can tell you that if was in charge of design, God help us all, and all the other things we have going on were handed down to me from on high (one iTrial, no new iSalvage, new iTrial the only source of Hybrid unlock) we wouldn't be able to farm it like that. The reward would be better distributed through the trial. And frankly, a lot of people who are farming it right now would probably be annoyed by that, because right now they have an easy path to unlock that I wouldn't have given them.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA