Quote:
Waitasec. Are you saying people are *relying* on procs to make a Stalker fun to play?
|
Originally Posted by Endlessly
This sounds pretty terrible. It also sounds like stalkers won't be as fun to play again. C'est la vie.
|
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Quote:
More excellent stuff from you. What the hell are you trying to do become my favorite dev or something? |
Originally Posted by Synapse
Some very good points have been brought up regarding outside buffs to your recharge affecting your proc chances. While we have considered this, after really taking a look at how this affects a great deal a power, the original proposed changes might be too punitive considering this. I'm going to take a look at some options and I'll get back to you all (hopefully later today.)
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors. Synapse |
I like the direct way you are handling this entire deal and support your extensive efforts to make it right. Cheers.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Synapse
I think the way the formula handles Area Factor isn't ideal and it over penalizes AoE proc chance in a way that is more harsh than was originally intended. So, I would like to address that somehow. Back to the drawing board on that part.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Synapse
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors.
|
Quote:
There's a reason I like to have an open discussion with players as opposed to just putting blinders on and saying "I'M DOING IT MY WAY!". You guys always bring up excellent points that I may not have considered, or may not have considered as much as I should have. So cheers to you all. Anyhow... back to the drawing board...err drawing spreadsheet...|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
More excellent stuff from you. What the hell are you trying to do become my favorite dev or something?
I like the direct way you are handling this entire deal and support your extensive efforts to make it right. Cheers. |
Synapse
Quote:
It's always easy to offer thanks when someone says they'll look at your specific concerns, but seriously, it's ridiculously awesome that the possibility for that to happen even exists. Thank you.
|
Originally Posted by Synapse
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors.
|
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I really don't want to do this. I however plan on making the values closer to what you'd expect from live play.
|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Is it possible to just use the old flat % proc rates for aoe powers and PPM values for ST powers?
|
Quote:
Actually, people *are* doing just that. I have friends in game who are finally giving stalkers a serious shot at playing because of this handy perk. It is not just used to increase DPS, but also increase survivability, the biggest complaint people I talk to have with stalkers.
|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Waitasec. Are you saying people are *relying* on procs to make a Stalker fun to play?
|
Don't I know you???
Quote:
Would I honestly be playing a Stalker if not for that ATO proc..............(sheepishly) maybe not, sorry. I'd understand if they wanted to nerf that IO, and only that IO, but somehow I feel like they're going with a nuclear option.
|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Waitasec. Are you saying people are *relying* on procs to make a Stalker fun to play?
|
Quote:
Wow, other developers should be embarrased.|
Originally Posted by Synapse
There's a reason I like to have an open discussion with players as opposed to just putting blinders on and saying "I'M DOING IT MY WAY!". You guys always bring up excellent points that I may not have considered, or may not have considered as much as I should have. So cheers to you all. Anyhow... back to the drawing board...err drawing spreadsheet...
Synapse |
Kudos.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Quote:
I have to presume what a States Attorney General and the Federal Prosecutor will do in regards to much more serious matters every day, or I wouldn't be able to function professionally. I'm right often enough to not be posting this from prison.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Don't assume you know what a State Attorney General or U.S. Attorney would do in regards to a video game. I don't. I don't think this is a crime either, but then there are people in prison right now for things that don't seem to be fraud on their face.
|
There are also people who assumed they wouldn't die from a lightning strike yesterday that were wrong. Just because anything is possible, doesn't mean its reasonable to act like everything is likely.
By your rationale, nothing is necessarily legal, or illegal. There are people in prison right now for things they didn't even do. Also, NCSoft could find themselves sued for giving refunds couldn't they, under a variety of legal doctrines. They are a publicly traded company.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Perhaps coming up with some way of providing "Enhancement Diversification" modification to the total recharge values for the formula itself. I'm not really sure how to put this in math terms, but maybe make it so that the first 100% or so total (between enhancements and global buffs) directly impacts the PPM performance, and after that the amount of impact it has is lessened. (Similar to how the first 100% enhancement with ED is only slightly penalized but if you overslot for the effect it becomes more heavily penalized).
|
Originally Posted by Synapse
Some very good points have been brought up regarding outside buffs to your recharge affecting your proc chances. While we have considered this, after really taking a look at how this affects a great deal a power, the original proposed changes might be too punitive considering this. I'm going to take a look at some options and I'll get back to you all (hopefully later today.)
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors. Synapse |
Damage Proc Mini-FAQ
Just noticed Damage Proc Mini-FAQ wasn't working with new forums, it's been updated.
Quote:
Thanks for the information. I think the PPM change will be unfortunate for really heavy recharge Dark Armor builds, though it will be much better while leveling up. My two 50 DA characters have pretty weak recharge: the one without Hasten gets a buff out of this overall, and the one with Hasten and one purple set has 125% recharge while Hasten is up, and that looks like it will be about even with the existing IO version. (Both have about 100% recharge in the power itself.)|
Originally Posted by Synapse
No, I don't consider this proc to be very abused. Here's how it works now:
This power has a recharge of 30 a 1.17second cast time and an Area Factor of 4. IO version has a 20% chance to proc. SBE version has 3 PPMs and thus has a 39% chance to proc. PROPOSED CHANGES Theft of Essence: Chance for Endurance PPM: 4.5 0% Global Recharge/Power Recharge Proc Chance: 58.4% per target 0% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 31.0% per target 100% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 21.3% per target 200% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 16.4% per target 300% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 13.6% per target |
Is it possible to, instead of using the actual recharge number, use the recharge that would be required given the last use of the power? That is, if the power has a recharge of 30 seconds, and I last used it 15 seconds ago, I must have about 100% recharge. If I last used it 30 or more seconds ago, I'm using effectively 0% recharge. Whether the power was up or not, I wasn't using it, and the proc wasn't going off. This would have the effect of letting procs charge up to some cap (maybe the current IO % chance) on the first fight, or in powers one does not use as often as they come up, but would achieve the reduction of proc effect in spammable powers if you spam them. That way at least the penalty for high recharge is only applied if you're actively using the recharge on the power in question, which I think might save a lot of arguments.
Virtue
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
Angel Witch II - Chord of Souls - Storm Witch II - Princess of the Dawn - Standing Horse - Witch of Xymox
Silent Scream - Shadow Witch II - Liquid Serenade - Nebulous Dawn - Ghost Witch II -Xiberia
Quote:
Other <previous> developers should be. Arbiter Hawk has been doing a fantastic job as well taking feedback for the hybrid slot.
|
Originally Posted by Test_Rat
Wow, other developers should be embarrased.
Kudos. |
Quote:
Actually the way I heard it you put on headphones and do your best impression of Sinatra singing "My Way."
|
Originally Posted by Synapse
There's a reason I like to have an open discussion with players as opposed to just putting blinders on and saying "I'M DOING IT MY WAY!".
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I meant Paragon Studios as a team of course, not just Synapse.
|
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Other <previous> developers should be. Arbiter Hawk has been doing a fantastic job as well taking feedback for the hybrid slot.
|
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Quote:
I just want to say that I think it's really great that you're listening to our concerns on this issue.
|
Originally Posted by Synapse
Some very good points have been brought up regarding outside buffs to your recharge affecting your proc chances. While we have considered this, after really taking a look at how this affects a great deal a power, the original proposed changes might be too punitive considering this. I'm going to take a look at some options and I'll get back to you all (hopefully later today.)
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors. Synapse |
Question: Does this at all change how the Interface incarnate ability will work too?
Quote:
The table above makes me very worried. Perhaps I am not reading it correctly. I have 2 stalkers that run with 165%-185% GLOBAL recharge, before using Ageless. And with Ageless that number goes up well over 200%. |
Originally Posted by Synapse
Okay, now onto the example. Let's use Assassin's Strike slotted with Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide (Standard):
CURRENT PPMs Assassin Strike Base Recharge: 15 seconds Cast Time: 1 second Area Factor: 1 Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide PPM: 4 Proc Chance: 106.7% PROPOSED PPMs Assassin Strike Base Recharge: 15 Cast Time: 1 second Area Factor Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide PPM: 6 0% Global Recharge/Power Recharge Proc Chance: 90% 0% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 86.9% 100% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 60.8% 200% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 48% 300% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 40.3% Superior Stalker's Guile: +Rech/Chance to Hide 0% Global Recharge/Power Recharge Proc Chance: 90% 0% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 90% 100% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 76.1% 200% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 60% 300% Global Recharge/95% Power Recharge Proc Chance: 50.4% PPM: The above values are assuming we apply a 50% bonus to existing PPMs. You can use the formula I listed above to figure out how this will impact you. If you're confused how all of this works I am happy to answer questions. My goal here is to enlighten you all on the complex world of procs. Also, I am currently considering having a minimum chance to proc that scales with the enhancements Procs Per Minute if that is possible with the code. We'll have to see. Regards, Synapse |
Plus with a 5-slot Superior Stalker ATO set in AS, I assume they have close to 90-95% recharge in that power.
From the chart above, it looks like the stalker guile proc would have only a 60%-65% chance to fire at those recharge rates ... which is a big letdown from the 100% currently. That seems like a pretty significant change that is really penalizing high-recharge builds.
A-proc-alypse?
Quote:
Being able to gank one member of a group without the others even noticing you is very stalker-ish.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Waitasec. Are you saying people are *relying* on procs to make a Stalker fun to play?
|
NPC Bill: And that's all I have to say about that.
Stalker: Lining up, 1 anda 2 anda
NPC Bob: *SPLORTCH*
NPC Bill: What, no cutting rejoinder?
Stalker: Wait for it, wait for it...
NPC Bill: *SPLORTCH*
Quote:
Thank you.|
Originally Posted by Synapse
Some very good points have been brought up regarding outside buffs to your recharge affecting your proc chances. While we have considered this, after really taking a look at how this affects a great deal a power, the original proposed changes might be too punitive considering this. I'm going to take a look at some options and I'll get back to you all (hopefully later today.)
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors. Synapse |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
Question: Does this at all change how the Interface incarnate ability will work too?
|
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
Quote:
I'm really hoping for an answer to this, since I asked the same question.
|
Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
Question: Does this at all change how the Interface incarnate ability will work too?
|
Thanks for taking our feedback into consideration, Synapse!
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
Just to clarify, will these changes affect PVP-IO procs as well? Even in PVP?
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
Quote:
Nice.|
Originally Posted by Granite Agent
A-proc-alypse?
|
Some very good points have been brought up regarding outside buffs to your recharge affecting your proc chances. While we have considered this, after really taking a look at how this affects a great deal a power, the original proposed changes might be too punitive considering this. I'm going to take a look at some options and I'll get back to you all (hopefully later today.)
TL;DR: I'd like to make the formula less punitive for players with global recharge bonuses and for powers with large area factors.
Synapse