Discussion: Tier 9 VIP Reward - Celestial Armor Availability
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-04-24 10:49 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Nice to be reminded, but what time tables are we talking about here? A week? A month?
How about making TFs or story arcs (solo-possible please, no 8-person TFs kthx) that play to the theme of the set? Like "Celestial" would be an arc dealing with angelics or possibly valkyrie-type mobs. Each time you run the arc, you get the option of picking a random piece of the set for a reward.
Still voicing in: Cheapening Tier9 VIP Armor by putting them on the market or making them REMOTELY easy to get, WILL cheapen Tier9 VIP. Sure, you get everything 'sooner'? But that greatly diminishes the token value of that slot, and as other people have mentioned, makes it far less likely someone will use a Token on something they can simply 'wait' to get for 'free' later.
You're going to need to be veeeeery careful about how you do this, Paragon. Cheapening the value of something by giving it to anyone is very, very foolish.
At bare minimum:
1) Difficult Unlock.
2) VIP Account ONLY.
I'm a T9 VIP. I don't want anything I've acquired to lose value, period. Call it selfish or whatever you want. Nobody wants to make a 'bad buy'.
So waitaminute, if I have the set do I lose it when i23 comes?
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Because the T9 VIP allows you to have it FIRST. And for a fairly long period (12-18 months) before anyone else gets their grubby little paws on it.
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
So basically you will rename the "T9 VIP" to "T9 VIP for sometime and then everyone can have it via another method"? Tell me, what's the point of having a "T9 VIP" again then?
Here's a suggestion: make "T9 VIP" go away, turn it into a "Revolving Tier" and let everyone have access to it, regardless of what tier they are actually on. This way you still get your points (money) and at least there's no pretence of creating VIP costume content only. |
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No, it no longer be available to be claimed from the T9 VIP slot.
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Originally Posted by Easily_Noobed
So waitaminute, if I have the set do I lose it when i23 comes?
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No |
Originally Posted by Easily_Noobed
So waitaminute, if I have the set do I lose it when i23 comes?
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The devs are cruel and heartless monsters, but they're not insane
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I'd be perfectly fine with everyone having access to it. Putting it behind a couple hundred dollar barrier isn't the greatest idea I can think of and certainly can complicate any needed changes down the road.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Because the T9 VIP allows you to have it FIRST. And for a fairly long period (12-18 months) before anyone else gets their grubby little paws on it.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No
The devs are cruel and heartless monsters, but they're not insane |
And this brings me back to my suggestion:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=288296
Revamp T9VIP, make it accessible to all (and only) VIPs, and rename it T-VIP.
I see the same mentality regarding the VIP outfits here. People fighting for their elite status and ego, while showing signs of megalomania and narcissism.
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(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
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Originally Posted by Dark Energon
And this brings me back to my suggestion:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=288296 Revamp T9VIP, make it accessible to all (and only) VIPs, and rename it T-VIP. I see the same mentality regarding the VIP outfits here. People fighting for their elite status and ego, while showing signs of megalomania and narcissism. |
The only thing I worry about is that this forces non-T9's to choose between the vet status perks and the costumes.
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Debatable! |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
No
The devs are cruel and heartless monsters, but they're not insane |
I don't get their entire T9 strategy. It seems to cause the maximum amount of upset possible - as if they are trying to piss the punters off deliberately.
The whole point of exclusive items are to be an incentive but as things stand, T9 seems to be dauntingly distant for new players with limited funds so it fails at that level.
It also fails to work for a lot of existing Vet players because it's not so exclusive ackshully.
It even fails because of the rotation policy - doubly so for those on the cusp of getting to T9... imagine how you'd feel when you know in a couple of months time you'll have the T9 points for the Celestial armour because you love it but the other set you don't love is going to replace it...
The current policy seems to really hurt the casual player with limited resources and time and that seems to be a shame and also a self-inflicted wound - because those are the people Paragon really need to keep on board to stay healthy.
For me it doesn't matter because I've got the rewards already but I can see how many would find the whole T9 thing pretty broken.
Here's my suggested fix:
- Do not remove items from the T9 pool. Add to them. It might mean there's a little bit of a cycling mechanic needed in the UI but that's peanuts compared to the benefits. Let the PAYING CUSTOMER choose the reward they want!
- Offer those T9 rewards to those who wish to obtain them by another means but make it very clear how this is intended to work before the customer has to choose, and then stick to it. This may mean that Exclusive items are time limited for the T9s - so maybe you get it for up to a year but it does have some exclusivity.
Thelonious Monk
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And that is their own choice.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
The only thing I worry about is that this forces non-T9's to choose between the vet status perks and the costumes.
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Either progress in their Reward Tree progress and have more perks when dropping to Premium, or get the VIP rewards and delay your Reward Tree progress.
People will be more inclined to stay VIP longer, and do not face a heft lump sum of cash to get the VIP rewards.
Those who have T9 filled will not loose anything.
Those who have bought their way up, will still have all the benefits they paid for.
Dark Energon, Founder of the Freedom Legion SG on Guardian server.
(SG founded on 12-08-'09, Top100: 08-17-'10, Top50: 12-23-'10, Top25: 12-11-'11)
Crab Spider Nephila on Titan Tracker
Weekly events on Guardian: W.A.V.E. & FNFN
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Would not be as easy as this? I just got to T9 but I still have to spend my token. Dont want to get Celestial incomplete with 1 token, then have to bought the complete set next month...
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Here's my suggested fix:
[LIST=1][*]Do not remove items from the T9 pool. Add to them. It might mean there's a little bit of a cycling mechanic needed in the UI but that's peanuts compared to the benefits. Let the PAYING CUSTOMER choose the reward they want! |
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I hate the idea. It'd limit availability to people with Incarnate characters. Even the current T9 system doesn't do that.|
Originally Posted by ScarlettRowan
Oooooooo I like this idea! Anyone else?? Because I looove the Ascension stuff but I haven't even earned one piece yet. I drool over any hero I team with who has pieces.
 I'm working on the merits but it's slow going for me, which honestly, I don't mind. |
If the devs are stuck on keeping the T9 VIP sets as both T9 and VIP exclusives I'd like to see them simply added to the market as VIP exclusive items once they are rotated out of the T9 rewards options. 6 months of T9 exclusivity is plenty imo.
I have no problem with availability being gated behind a VIP subscription, it never hurts to have more incentives for people to subscribe. But the T9 restriction misses the mark imo. It's simply to far off for most people. It's so far off that they'll never reach it before its removed. And bridging the gap by throwing a good chunk of money at it (which can be hundreds of $), is not an option for everyone. Even to some of those who already are playing a couple of years it can appear as nothing more than a frustratingly moving goal post. Because of that it loses its appeal and stops being a fun goal to aim for, an incentive.
And no, this is not me being bitter at T9s. I got the Celestial pieces months back and am eagerly anticipating the Mecha stuff. But I know people who simply haven't been playing long enough (even though they have more than a couple of years on the counter) or have the financial resources to buy themselves into T9 and who will be really sad if they can never get their hands on the Celestial stuff.
So I hope the devs just put the rotated out costume sets in the market at the normal costume set price.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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At the normal costume price of 400pp/$5?|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
So I hope the devs just put the rotated out costume sets in the market at the normal costume set price.
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I spent the equivalent of up to $45 on them as a T9 VIP item (slightly less due to bulk points buying discount). I tell you what, I sure would be pissed if someone could then buy the whole thing for five bucks. No sir.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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I would posit that Hit Streak making this post (and the accompanying Announcement post) on April 24th and then Zwankeedoodledandy making his reminder post yesterday (the one you quoted) ARE ample warning.|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
Please give "ample warning" before Celestial Armor is removed from the Tier 9 VIP Rewards and everything should be okay.
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What are they supposed to do? Knock on every player's door and tell them personally? With possibly needing to come back to that person's residence because they weren't there the first time?
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
At the normal costume price of 400pp/$5?
I spent the equivalent of up to $45 on them as a T9 VIP item (slightly less due to bulk points buying discount). I tell you what, I sure would be pissed if someone could then buy the whole thing for five bucks. No sir. |
I'd disagree with your 'equivalence' valuation. That said, if you value it at $45, then so be it. But, then other people can counter that they value it at $500 or at $.05.
Slightly off the main topic, but I figure I'll ask here anyhow, since it is related. With the discussion of the celestial and ascension set, it made me realize that I always get these sets mixed up somehow. Is there a place where I can see pictures of all the given sets? I tried the wiki, but it doesn't look like it has images of either of these sets.
Yes, they can be found in the costume creator, if you've already purchased them, but if you haven't, they aren't.
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You got them for free. The tokens were a bonus item for buying points, you still had the points to use on other things. As a bonus you got the costume pieces well over a year ahead of anyone who isn't tier 9 yet and you are now in a position to let your monthly tokens fill new tier 9 costume slots as they drop without ever buying another point.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
At the normal costume price of 400pp/$5?
I spent the equivalent of up to $45 on them as a T9 VIP item (slightly less due to bulk points buying discount). I tell you what, I sure would be pissed if someone could then buy the whole thing for five bucks. No sir. |
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You spent those $45 on either 3 months of subscription or a bunch of points. In either case the tokens you get are a bonus, an extra. Equating that money to the cost of the costume set is completely outside any sort of sensible perspective.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
At the normal costume price of 400pp/$5?
I spent the equivalent of up to $45 on them as a T9 VIP item (slightly less due to bulk points buying discount). I tell you what, I sure would be pissed if someone could then buy the whole thing for five bucks. No sir. |
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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This |
Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
If this VIP Tier 9 exclusive costume content becomes "anybody can buy it" why on earth would I ever waste tokens on Tier 9 costumes again? Tokens are more valuable than points which I get for free anyway.... I'd buy consumable tier 8s instead.
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Especially if I know if I wait long enough I get it for less or free as a VIP.
AV
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Then don't buy. Wait for the alternate purchase plan and save your tokens for Mecha and Fire/Ice. |
Originally Posted by Angelxman81
Would not be as easy as this? I just got to T9 but I still have to spend my token. Dont want to get Celestial incomplete with 1 token, then have to bought the complete set next month...
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Right now the devs are playing games with you. They aren't telling you how or when these are going to be available and hoping you make the worst choices possible. Its a bit short sighted on their part but have you ever known anyone in marketing that could look beyond a quarterly sales report ? The only thing you can do is not reward them for doing it.
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I'm failing to see the problem with this. If you'd rather wait 6 months or however long for the costume sets, then spend money on it and in the mean time spend your tokens on the consumables then that's a perfectly valid position to take.|
Originally Posted by American_Valor
This
Especially if I know if I wait long enough I get it for less or free as a VIP. AV |
I don't see how that would a counter argument to putting the costume set in the store though.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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The whole purpose of T9 VIP rewards is to reward VIP subscribers with something unique that can't be obtained any other way, in game or via the market. Making a T9 VIP reward freely available the market makes the T9 Reward row meaningless. I could just go Premium and earn reward tokens whenever I want to buy something of the market - like a T9 VIP reward costume set - but then CoH loses out on the monthly $15 I spend on the game and may perhaps just get the occassional $5 or $15 purchase from me once or twice a year (versus twelve $15 monthly payments.)|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
I don't see how that would a counter argument to putting the costume set in the store though.
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Does that make sense? I believe it's been reiterated multiple times in this thread and people either lack reading comprehension or just don't want to acknowledge that argument.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork