Discussion: Tier 9 VIP Reward - Celestial Armor Availability
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-04-24 10:49 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
At the normal costume price of 400pp/$5?
I spent the equivalent of up to $45 on them as a T9 VIP item (slightly less due to bulk points buying discount). I tell you what, I sure would be pissed if someone could then buy the whole thing for five bucks. No sir. |
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
You spent those $45 on either 3 months of subscription or a bunch of points. In either case the tokens you get are a bonus, an extra. Equating that money to the cost of the costume set is completely outside any sort of sensible perspective.
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So yeah, 400 points for the whole Celestial set seems a bit low, unless the t9 VIPs this was supposed to be a reward for are supposed to pay an early adopter's fee for it. I'm all for ending the exclusivity eventually, but giving it away cheaper than I got it in the first place isn't quite fair either.
here's my take on it... I just broke into tier 7... I doubt that I'm going to see any of these items on my characters. so enjoy your exclusivity...
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You know, I'd be surprised if anyone in this thread ever bought a computer. I mean the whining every time a new model is released must be indescribable. What do you mean two years from now someone else will be able to buy a system with twice the performance at half the cost I am paying now ? Where is the thank you for my loyalty ? Where is my reward for being an early adopter.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
For an account in tier 9, a reward token can be redeemed for about 750 points worth of repeatables. Even if we use the lowest-value repeatable for comparison (5x Super Packs, ~400 points), that's still effectively spending ~1200 points on Celestial.
So yeah, 400 points for the whole Celestial set seems a bit low, unless the t9 VIPs this was supposed to be a reward for are supposed to pay an early adopter's fee for it. I'm all for ending the exclusivity eventually, but giving it away cheaper than I got it in the first place isn't quite fair either. |
Well yours and everyone else's reward was you got it first and you got it for a token that you didn't have to buy. As the old saying goes "You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.". You got something you enjoyed, at a price you were willing to part with. Its time you counted your blessings instead of worrying about other peoples.
Costume packs aren't computers. Which other costume sets from at or near i21 release are enormously and permanently discounted?
Moreover, if t9 VIP rewards are supposed to be a reward/incentive for loyal customers, making it an early adopter penalty is quite counterproductive. Hell, forget about other people getting it - just in terms of what I myself get, it would remove a significant reason for me to stay VIP if I knew I could buy the costumes down the road cheaper than I get them as a VIP. I personally would probably be VIP anyway, but it seems that quite a lot of people are near the tipping point on that.
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if I wanted them right now it would cost me $210.00...
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
if I knew I could buy the costumes down the road cheaper than I get them as a VIP.
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Discounted from FREE ? |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Costume packs aren't computers. Which other costume sets from at or near i21 release are enormously and permanently discounted?
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| Moreover, if t9 VIP rewards are supposed to be a reward/incentive for loyal customers, making it an early adopter penalty is quite counterproductive. |
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| Hell, forget about other people getting it - just in terms of what I myself get, it would remove a significant reason for me to stay VIP if I knew I could buy the costumes down the road cheaper than I get them as a VIP. I personally would probably be VIP anyway, but it seems that quite a lot of people are near the tipping point on that. |
- We have people who are buying large bundles of points just to get tokens so they can have costume pieces NAO!!!
- All they had to do to get them for free is wait.
- These same people are going to have a mass outbreak of patience because they now know they can wait and then pay for them ?
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VIPs would have at least 6 month exclusive access to these costume pieces. That's pretty meaningful. Plus, if people want to pay cash for them and fund development, they can be my guest.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
The whole purpose of T9 VIP rewards is to reward VIP subscribers with something unique that can't be obtained any other way, in game or via the market. Making a T9 VIP reward freely available the market makes the T9 Reward row meaningless.
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Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Im 100% fine with putting them on the market a little after they pull them from t9. Go for it.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
I think it should be in 3 costume bundles, same as reward tokens.
Each bundle 400 PP. 1200 total for the whole set. Each bundle can be bought separately but costume pieces cant.
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This. I bought points to get the tokens to get the costume pieces. $45... and now it's practically going to be given away.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
At the normal costume price of 400pp/$5?
I spent the equivalent of up to $45 on them as a T9 VIP item (slightly less due to bulk points buying discount). I tell you what, I sure would be pissed if someone could then buy the whole thing for five bucks. No sir. |
NOT spending money on tokens ever again.
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BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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ROFL|
Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
This. I bought points to get the tokens to get the costume pieces. $45... and now it's practically going to be given away.
NOT spending money on tokens ever again. |
You are Tier 9 with at least 1/2 the current costume tier filled.
What more were you looking at "Buying Tokens" for ? The Mecha Armor that isn't available yet ?
Why do people keep bringing up the fact that current owners of the Celestial set "got to have it first?"
Costumes don't make the game easier (nor harder), they don't offer buffs, they don't make influence rain down upon you. The only difference between those that have it and those that don't is a couple of extra decisions to make in the costume editor. How is that a perk worth saying "Well, you've had it longer than I have, so it's ok to make it non-exclusive."
I say, if there is going to be such a thing as T9 VIP, make that VIP mean something, and make it stick. Whatever rewards you put in there should stay in there, or you lose what being a VIP means. Being able to play Incarnate content, not having to pay for SSAs or certain powersets, or anything else VIPs already get for subscribing has nothing to do with the reward system. If you want what a VIP has, become one, spend the money to reach T9 (like all the rest did. When they spent that money has zero to do with anything, they paid for the privilege), and enjoy it. If you want the costumes bad enough, pay up. Paragon shouldn't change a thing. In fact, they shouldn't put any of those costume sets on the PM, or anywhere else outside the rewards.
If you're not willing to make VIP exclusive like it's supposed to be, don't do it at all.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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You don't expect anyone to take that question seriously do you ?|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Why do people keep bringing up the fact that current owners of the Celestial set "got to have it first?"
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Or are you under the delusion that you don't live in a world where people pay a premium to get things first, to cut to the head of the line and in general to have their shiny before everyone else ?
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Perhaps I've communicated poorly.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Discounted from FREE ?
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Circle of Thorns, Barbarian, Steampunk, Gunslinger were all added at or near i21 release. None of these sets are free. Steampunk costs less now than when it was first introduced, but that's because the original bundle included the steam jump and the emotes.
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But moreover, I'm not talking about people buying their way up to t9. I'm talking about the players that are already at t9, that spent the tokens on Celestial instead of other things that they could have spent tokens on, which have a direct point value, namely the t9 repeatables.
Would 1200 points be too much for a previously-entirely-exclusive costume bundle? I don't think so, no, especially since one can buy individual costume pieces, so someone who wants just the wings (or whatever) can spend even less. There's a thread over in City Life right now asking for that exact thing with Fire & Ice, so clearly there's a demand.
Of course, we have no idea yet what the alternate method will be. It might not be sold for points at all, and if it is, the price is certainly not yet determined. But I'm saying that offering the set as a special perk for long-term loyalty, then making it available to anyone for a fraction of the price it had as a special bonus perk, badly undermines its "special VIP perk/incentive" function. It replaces the feeling of "I get awesome benefits for my loyalty" with "I get ripped off for my loyalty".
Or, if the whole set is going to sell for 400 points, future t9 sets should cost 1 token, not 3. That would be acceptable to me, too.
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Celestial was free because it was given as a bonus for doing other things. Its like the prize in a box of cereal. You pay for it as part of the cereal purchase but there is no evidence that your cereal would be cheaper without it. It is just part of the marketing expense, for the product. |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Perhaps I've communicated poorly.
Circle of Thorns, Barbarian, Steampunk, Gunslinger were all added at or near i21 release. None of these sets are free. Steampunk costs less now than when it was first introduced, but that's because the original bundle included the steam jump and the emotes. |
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| Personally, I bought a bunch of points to get Celestial. Not so I could have it IMMEDIATELY, but so I could have it AT ALL, because I was a good 12 tokens away, and the publicly announced plan at the time was that Celestial would only be around for a few months. Going by the best info available, the set was going into the vault before I could obtain it from vet time alone, and it was not clear when it would come back OUT of the vault, or even that it definitely ever would. There was certainly no mention that I would be able to obtain it for a tiny fraction of the cost by waiting. So yes, that would have affected my decision. |
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| But moreover, I'm not talking about people buying their way up to t9. I'm talking about the players that are already at t9, that spent the tokens on Celestial instead of other things that they could have spent tokens on, which have a direct point value, namely the t9 repeatables. |
Really paragon would do itself a world of good by enhancing the value of these "Incentives" to the players instead of trying to pre nerf them. The convoluted mechanics of dealing with non tradeable items and the umpteen currencies we now have really detract from the desire to possess these things.
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Would 1200 points be too much for a previously-entirely-exclusive costume bundle? I don't think so, no, especially since one can buy individual costume pieces, so someone who wants just the wings (or whatever) can spend even less. There's a thread over in City Life right now asking for that exact thing with Fire & Ice, so clearly there's a demand. Of course, we have no idea yet what the alternate method will be. It might not be sold for points at all, and if it is, the price is certainly not yet determined. But I'm saying that offering the set as a special perk for long-term loyalty, then making it available to anyone for a fraction of the price it had as a special bonus perk, badly undermines its "special VIP perk/incentive" function. It replaces the feeling of "I get awesome benefits for my loyalty" with "I get ripped off for my loyalty". Or, if the whole set is going to sell for 400 points, future t9 sets should cost 1 token, not 3. That would be acceptable to me, too. |
If you want a legitimate cause to be upset look at the people who bought enhancements from the market and are now getting them nerfed.
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Right, because the cereal prize wasn't specifically marketed as a reward for long-term loyal cereal buyers. It was just some random prize. And you're correct that cereal prizes are a negligible part of the cost of the cereal.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Going back to the cereal analogy, If you bought 10 boxes of a cereal to get a particular prize and a year or two later General Mills starts selling the prize directly, are you going to stop eating your favorite cereal ? Were you ripped off ? No of course not.
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Neither of these things are true for Celestial and reward tokens, respectively.
Celestial is not free. It costs reward tokens, which cost money. Of course, it's silly to say that reward tokens are $15 each, because you get lots of other things with a month's subscription or from the points you buy. It's equally silly to claim they cost $0. They cost somewhere in between. The precise amount is of course debatable, but 400 points (the point value of the lowest-point-value and most-widely-usable repeatable) seems like a pretty decent estimate, by which measure Celestial is 1200 points.
Most of all, you're completely failing to address the argument that undermining player confidence in VIP perks when we have frequent threads about whether VIP perks are worthwhile, when the game runs on a business model specifically focused around players paying for a VIP subscription, is just a poor business move.
But anyway, I really do not care enough to continue to debate the exact price point they should be if the alternate method is hypothetically just putting it in the market for points, so I'm not going to post on the matter again. Have the last word, if you like.
<-- is not surprised by the ugliness
It starts with the idea to rotate out gated rewards that most everyone sees inherent problems with.
As a solution, the team shows a commitment to offer those rewards in some other way.
Some people don't wish for such developer-initiated solutions for the problem to take place... and/or express hopes for substantial requirements for others to attain what they've already attained.
To paraphrase a kind gentleman who'd not share such concerns...
Why so ugly?
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Not that it matters, but I spent a of money getting two separate accounts to tier 9 because I wanted the celestial armor set. I'm all for these being available on the market.
Keep in mind that you don't spend money to get the reward tokens, you are buying points which you use to get stuff. The T9 costumes pieces are just a bonus.
We got them early, we didn't have to spend any additional points to get them so why not let premium and free players buy them? Maybe the money they spend will let them design a new costume set that I will enjoy.
I just don't see how letting others get the pieces reduces my game play value. I'm a VIP because I want to play the whole game, all of it. Even if there were no T9 Costume sets, I would still be a VIP. If you upset about VIP stuff being available and you don't think VIP is worth it, then go premium.
Besides, it's a costume pack for a video game, not live saving cancer treatments. Let's try and keep things in perspective.
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It's not about protecting your exclusiveness value it's about protecting the t9 vip sales model
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Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Not that it matters, but I spent a of money getting two separate accounts to tier 9 because I wanted the celestial armor set. I'm all for these being available on the market.
Keep in mind that you don't spend money to get the reward tokens, you are buying points which you use to get stuff. The T9 costumes pieces are just a bonus. We got them early, we didn't have to spend any additional points to get them so why not let premium and free players buy them? Maybe the money they spend will let them design a new costume set that I will enjoy. I just don't see how letting others get the pieces reduces my game play value. I'm a VIP because I want to play the whole game, all of it. Even if there were no T9 Costume sets, I would still be a VIP. If you upset about VIP stuff being available and you don't think VIP is worth it, then go premium. Besides, it's a costume pack for a video game, not live saving cancer treatments. Let's try and keep things in perspective. |
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Oh, dramatics |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Or are you under the delusion that you don't live in a world where people pay a premium to get things first, to cut to the head of the line and in general to have their shiny before everyone else ?
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Alas, poor shiny, I knew thee well!
There is no line. There is only our own individual line - the reward tree. It's not some line we are all in - we are all on our separate path through that tree. Rewards aren't being handed out with discrimination between who gets what - we are all eligible - some sooner than others based on the longevity of their subscription or rewarded for money spent on the market. Wait your time - and if you are a VIP - you will eventually hit that Tier.
Your lack of patience and self entitlement and your whole "I WANT IT NAAAOOOOO!!!1!" attitude is something that needs refinement
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not a jab at you, but one group of people that seem to be ignored in this argument are the VIPs who aren't t9 yet. we pay every month to play, yet there is some stuff that is not available to us because |
Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
We got them early, we didn't have to spend any additional points to get them so why not let premium and free players buy them?
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a) we haven't been playing the game for YEARS
b) haven't spent a bunch of money to "get ahead" so to speak
as I stated earlier, if I wanted any of the t9 stuff, I would have to fork over $210.00 extra dollars or wait another 2.5 years...
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I was going of the assumption that people had read my previous post a little bit earlier in the thread, (Silly of me to assume people to actually read the thread before responding, I know. *passive aggressive winkey* ) where I proposed the costume sets be put in the market only AFTER they were rotated out of the paragon rewards program and that they keep them restricted to VIPs for purchase. This way T9 VIPs get exclusive "free" access to the costumes for 8-12 months and even after that they remain exclusive to VIPS willing to spend the money. |
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
The whole purpose of T9 VIP rewards is to reward VIP subscribers with something unique that can't be obtained any other way, in game or via the market. Making a T9 VIP reward freely available the market makes the T9 Reward row meaningless. I could just go Premium and earn reward tokens whenever I want to buy something of the market - like a T9 VIP reward costume set - but then CoH loses out on the monthly $15 I spend on the game and may perhaps just get the occassional $5 or $15 purchase from me once or twice a year (versus twelve $15 monthly payments.)
Does that make sense? I believe it's been reiterated multiple times in this thread and people either lack reading comprehension or just don't want to acknowledge that argument. |
That's even more exclusiveness than I'd like to see, but I understand the marketing position behind this, so I think this makes for a nice compromise.
In that context I don't see people not wanting to spend their tokens on the sets but rather wait a year and then drop money and spend their tokens on consumables instead as a problem. It's a valid choice to make, under that system imo.
The devs already said they were going to make rotated out costumes available through different means. I think that putting them up for sale under the above restrictions is the best way of doing that. People caring about elitist exclusives can remain elite and exclusive for up to a year (or forever really, since there will always be costume sets the "plebs" won't have access too at the time under the T9 system), people who want the items but haven't been subscribed for 5+ years or don't have a large chunk of cash to drop on the market at once for tokens can get the items eventually, and Paragon Studios gets extra cash. Everyone wins. Unless you don't want people to have access to the items ever again after they rotated them out...
So, I see your argument, I just don't think it makes a lot of sense outside of the "I'm l33t veteran, and I don't want them filthy beggars to get their hands on my stuff EVAR!" mentality. Which I simply don't acknowledge as valid.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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There's a difference between stuff being VIP exclusive and them being so far out of reach for a lot of years long vets they might as well not be there.|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
If you're not willing to make VIP exclusive like it's supposed to be, don't do it at all.
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Also: Good suggestion.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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So the value of those points you bought just magically went "POOF" after you spent those tokens, right? You didn't get $45 worth of points to spend in the market?|
Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
This. I bought points to get the tokens to get the costume pieces. $45... and now it's practically going to be given away.
NOT spending money on tokens ever again. |
People need to get a sense of perspective.
And nothing is going to be given away as of yet, nothing has been decided yet on future availability. This whole thread is just speculation.
And I spent 55 on tokens to get access to Celestial. I probably still would have if they became available for me in a year. If only for the free access to the future T9 costumes.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
Does that make sense? I believe it's been reiterated multiple times in this thread and people either lack reading comprehension or just don't want to acknowledge that argument.