Discussion: Tier 9 VIP Reward - Celestial Armor Availability
But I'd also agree that they should probably sell any former T9 VIP costume items at a higher price than standard costume sets, perhaps even double or triple. That keeps up an illusion of exclusivity, if nothing else. |
Overall, I've been really impressed with the implementation of the marketplace- I expect they'll do a good job on this as well.
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....wwwhhhhich you have to pay cash for. (Or, well, credit or something.)
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Now same two stations but this time the second one offers a wash with a $40 purchase. How much more does the car wash cost at the second station ?
Now there is a third station opening up, this one sells you gas at the same price, tosses in a car wash for cumulative purchases over $40 and has a gas subscription plan that gives you the same amount of gas, a car wash, and and $5 bucks credit at their mini market if you pre buy your gas for the month ahead.
How much are you paying for the car wash this time ?
Now lets say the Gas Stations start selling the car washes. Are you going to go bonkers and buy gas from someplace else because you have been betrayed ? Because you had to spend $40 to get your car wash ?
And again with the incredibly poor analogies. There aren't multiple competing CoH "gas stations" offering different car wash packages. There's just the one game.
If you have to spend money to get it - which you do - it isn't free. By definition. The car washes in your example aren't free, either, by the way. They're included in the cost of the purchase, which yes, means that the station not offering car washes but selling gas at the same price is a worse deal.
We have a lot of folk around here who don't worry about this kind of thing and could care less about exclusivity, which is nice from a community standpoint.
But from a business standpoint, when you promote a reward system centered largely around that exclusivity you undermine it at your own peril. Hopefully they get the price point right and can generate more income from the non-9s without agitating the 9's too much. |
As opposed to how much money they'd make for selling those costume sets.
I'm not convinced that more money comes from having these VIP rewards. Honestly (and hats off to Paragon Studios), with just a few calculations it seems more likely that the company would make more money by selling them directly in the store (to any and all buyers).
The real answers lie within the question: How many VIPs would shell out the excessive amount of dough to fly up the Tiers compared to how many sales of packs they have for popular costume packs? We'd have to factor in the useage of stipend points as well.
I seriously don't think a large contingent of people only subscribe for the costumes at Tier 9. And I don't think there'd be any mass exodus if the exclusivity of those costumes were "diminished".
I don't know what is better for business, but neither does anyone but the people running the business, with the numbers in front of them.
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
And again with the incredibly poor analogies. There aren't multiple competing CoH "gas stations" offering different car wash packages. There's just the one game.
If you have to spend money to get it - which you do - it isn't free. By definition. The car washes in your example aren't free, either, by the way. They're included in the cost of the purchase, which yes, means that the station not offering car washes but selling gas at the same price is a worse deal. |
Here let me help you. The gas = CoH, The stations the various ways you can buy CoH time. You can still use your car if you don't buy gas you just have to get out and push.
Complaining that bonus costume sets cost you a fortune is like the guy who pushes his car around complaining he had to buy gas to get a car wash.
I always knew a part of my doctor's bill was including the cost of the lollipops!!
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
The real answers lie within the question: How many VIPs would shell out the excessive amount of dough to fly up the Tiers compared to how many sales of packs they have for popular costume packs? We'd have to factor in the useage of stipend points as well.
I seriously don't think a large contingent of people only subscribe for the costumes at Tier 9. And I don't think there'd be any mass exodus if the exclusivity of those costumes were "diminished". |
If they had announced the latter when they talked about rotating Celestial out, I sure as hell wouldn't have bought those points. I would have been content to wait it out and get Celestial eventually by "some other means"...I waited until only a few weeks ago to get them anyway, another month or two wouldn't have hurt.
As it is, since I'm pretty much uninterested in the Incarnate system, if they give away the VIP rewards in such a way that doesn't require VIP to obtain, I will be unsubscribing and playing as a Preemie. Since they want to KEEP subscriptions (if you believe their repeated "subscriptions are our core focus" mantra), this sounds RESOUNDINGLY STUPID in a business sense.
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Any analogy is going to be "incredibly poor" for someone bound and determined not to understand it.
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I'm not even counting the money I or others have spent to reach t9. I'm talking only about the tokens spent in t9 versus the other things in t9 that they could have been spent on. I then chose the lowest point-value item as the point of comparison, and concluded that Celestial "cost" me 1200 points. This is, if anything, a fairly conservative estimate; basing the cost on the other repeatables, or including the cost of reaching t9, would inflate that figure considerably. I'm not complaining about people being able to buy it without t9 - as I have already stated in this thread, exclusivity doesn't matter to me. This entire sub-topic started over whether it should sell at 400 points or not, which I said it shouldn't, because that would be a fraction of what it cost when it was supposedly a special reward for long-term loyalty, which undermines the concept of loyalty bonuses and VIP rewards, which is maybe not a good idea when the developers claim the game depends mainly on subscriptions and players are frequently thinking maybe subbing isn't worthwhile. It's not even about other people getting my shiny thing, it's why should a player want the special shiny thing from subbing when they can get the same thing, at a fraction of the cost, just by waiting. Would some still want it immediately? Oh yes, definitely. But it loses some appeal by being an early adopter's fee rather than an awesome special benefit.
It's not even about other people getting my shiny thing, it's why should a player want the special shiny thing from subbing when they can get the same thing, at a fraction of the cost, just by waiting. Would some still want it immediately? Oh yes, definitely. But it loses some appeal by being an early adopter's fee rather than an awesome special benefit.
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Somehow I don't think the fact everyone knows they will be able to see the movie for free is going to hurt ticket sales
I understand the Avengers movie opened on Friday. Right now its exclusive in movie theaters but some time down the road its going to be on free TV.
Somehow I don't think the fact everyone knows they will be able to see the movie for free is going to hurt ticket sales |
In fact, this analogy is especially bad for you to make, because it is completely contrary to what you're trying to argue. There is a considerable contingent of people who wait to rent the movie or watch it on TV, rather than go to the theater. So yes, that is hurting ticket sales. Not just a little bit, either - the entire theater industry is slowly being replaced by people watching at home, and theaters are terrified and reaching for any gimmick they can think of (like 3D) to try to convince people to buy tickets rather than watch at home. And if Avengers was advertised as being available only in theaters, never to be sold on DVD or shown on TV, and people spent money on tickets for that reason, and then they decided to show it on TV after all, people would indeed be upset, and trust in theaters would be undermined, and their future business damaged.
Really? I really have to point out that you're using yet another incredibly bad analogy, after I've pointed out multiple times that incredibly bad analogies are unconvincing? Talk about the actual topic, not another thing that looks kind of vaguely like the topic if you squint and ignore the multiple crucial ways in which it is different.
In fact, this analogy is especially bad for you to make, because it is completely contrary to what you're trying to argue. There is a considerable contingent of people who wait to rent the movie or watch it on TV, rather than go to the theater. So yes, that is hurting ticket sales. Not just a little bit, either - the entire theater industry is slowly being replaced by people watching at home, and theaters are terrified and reaching for any gimmick they can think of (like 3D) to try to convince people to buy tickets rather than watch at home. And if Avengers was advertised as being available only in theaters, never to be sold on DVD or shown on TV, and people spent money on tickets for that reason, and then they decided to show it on TV after all, people would indeed be upset, and trust in theaters would be undermined, and their future business damaged. |
Television has been around for 60 years for a dieing industry the theater business somehow manages to make more money than ever.
Don't take my word for it
http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/
But really I suggest you take your customer loyalty plan to the Studio Heads
And if Avengers was advertised as being available only in theaters, never to be sold on DVD or shown on TV, and people spent money on tickets for that reason, and then they decided to show it on TV after all, people would indeed be upset, and trust in theaters would be undermined, and their future business damaged |
I am sure they will be jumping over themselves to increase their revenue and control of the market by putting exclusives in theaters and never offering movies outside of theatrical distribution
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Seriously, if you want to even attempt to be convincing, you're going to have to do something other than make increasingly bad analogies. Discuss the actual topic.
Right, they clearly won't be, which is yet another reason it's a very poor analogy to make, since that IS what CoH has done.
Seriously, if you want to even attempt to be convincing, you're going to have to do something other than make increasingly bad analogies. Discuss the actual topic. |
All you advocate is that paragon studios not sell to the vast bulk of its customers and instead cater to people who have no incentive to make further purchases. Your business acumen is astounding.
I summarized my position a whole six posts ago. I'm not advocating that anything should not be sold, as I said there. I don't care about exclusivity. This will be less annoying for both of us if you will please read my posts before you quote and reply to them.
I'll explain once again... Revamp T9VIP into T-VIP, make it accessible to all and only VIPs regardless of their tier progress.
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Assuming that the costume rewards were opened to all VIPs, what do you feel would be a suitable replacement for tier nine for VIPs? Because if you remove the current tier nine VIP, that means people who have topped out their reward progress get nothing but the repeatable rewards, all of which can be picked up at the store. Or do you feel that it's entirely unnecessary to have any kind of special reward incentive for VIP subscribers who have topped out the tree?
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I specifically bought $100 in points so that I would have the tokens for Celestial before they got rotated out (please note I am now sitting on like 8000 or whatever points, unused!). This was before they changed their story from "eventually they will be rotated back in (with the implication that everything stays T9VIP exclusive)" to "eventually they may not be T9VIP exclusive but available through other means" (with the possible implication that means it won't be T9VIP).
If they had announced the latter when they talked about rotating Celestial out, I sure as hell wouldn't have bought those points. I would have been content to wait it out and get Celestial eventually by "some other means"...I waited until only a few weeks ago to get them anyway, another month or two wouldn't have hurt. As it is, since I'm pretty much uninterested in the Incarnate system, if they give away the VIP rewards in such a way that doesn't require VIP to obtain, I will be unsubscribing and playing as a Preemie. Since they want to KEEP subscriptions (if you believe their repeated "subscriptions are our core focus" mantra), this sounds RESOUNDINGLY STUPID in a business sense. |
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You and a few people are making large assumptions as to the Tier-9 VIP being better for business...
As opposed to how much money they'd make for selling those costume sets. |
It's a question of price point.
Too low and you alienate the people who dropped a bundle to make Tier 9 so they could pick it up with tokens along with players who enjoy the status of exclusive stuff.
It's important not to do that, for reasons having nothing to do with reaping a short term profit off a formerly 'exclusive' set.
I'm not convinced that more money comes from having these VIP rewards. Honestly (and hats off to Paragon Studios), with just a few calculations it seems more likely that the company would make more money by selling them directly in the store (to any and all buyers). |
It's a carrot to chase and a reward for people who've spent a lot of money on the game either over the years, or in a lump more recently.
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Personally I think they should wait 3-6 months after they stop being available as a Tier 9 VIP reward then just sell them straight on the market, like a normal costume set. No special events, or games of chance, or other hoops to jump through; just make it a normal purchase. Based on the duration it's been reward program exclusive so far that would mean the T9VIP gets to use the set for about a year before the peasantry, which seems like plenty of privilege to me.
(I say this as a Tier 9 VIP) |
Okay. So, why should Paragon break their reward system to allow VIP players to cherry-pick high tier rewards in that one case? Why does tier nine get the exception, when all other tiers on the tree don't? I don't understand why you feel that tier nine is different in principle to all the other tiers.
Assuming that the costume rewards were opened to all VIPs, what do you feel would be a suitable replacement for tier nine for VIPs? Because if you remove the current tier nine VIP, that means people who have topped out their reward progress get nothing but the repeatable rewards, all of which can be picked up at the store. Or do you feel that it's entirely unnecessary to have any kind of special reward incentive for VIP subscribers who have topped out the tree? |
At least if you are able to pick them while not having the Reward Tree filled, you can start filling your reward tree.
People who have the Reward Tree filled will still have the same problem with their tokens in my suggested revamp, as they have now.. what to do with all those left over tokens?
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What do people do now when they have filled all T9VIP slots?
At least if you are able to pick them while not having the Reward Tree filled, you can start filling your reward tree. People who have the Reward Tree filled will still have the same problem with their tokens in my suggested revamp, as they have now.. what to do with all those left over tokens? |
If not costumes, then what else do you think could be offered to T9 VIPs? What else might tempt those people to keep a sub running when they might otherwise cancel, or buy themselves a bunch of points to get up to the top of the tree faster?
And, I ask again, why should T9, out of all the tiers, be exempt from the reward tree structure? Why, out of all the levels, should that one allow people to cherry-pick their rewards from the tree?
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Defiant @Grouchybeast
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And, I ask again, why should T9, out of all the tiers, be exempt from the reward tree structure? Why, out of all the levels, should that one allow people to cherry-pick their rewards from the tree?
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But this is just my opinion.
The incentive for all people, no matter where they are on their Reward Tree progress, is Incarnate content and several other things. People who do not have the full Tree filled have more to lose when dropping to Premium than people who have all slots filled.
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I summarized my position a whole six posts ago. I'm not advocating that anything should not be sold, as I said there. I don't care about exclusivity. This will be less annoying for both of us if you will please read my posts before you quote and reply to them.
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As it stands Paragon would be better served coming up with more interesting tier 9 premiums to entice people into spending their money. I seriously doubt that the percentage of people who buy points just to get a token is anything but minuscule, but the people that buy points sooner because they get what they want and a token could be quite significant indeed.
Your summarized position and your arguments are not in accord. You keep bringing up exclusivity as an excuse why paragon shouldn't do this. If you don't care about exclusivity you have absolutely nothing to complain about.
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What I have consistently been trying to say is that, even though I don't care at all about exclusivity, I care about not getting ripped off. Selling me something as a special we-care-about-our-loyal-customers VIP perk, then after they have my money selling to anyone else at a tiny fraction of the most conservative estimate of the cost I paid for the costumes, not even counting the cost to reach t9, leaves me a bit miffed. I'm not arguing against Celestial being available by a method outside t9. I'm not even arguing against it being sold for points directly. The whole thing started over whether it should sell at 400 points like most costume sets, and I said it should sell for more than 400 if it's going to sell for points, and then to my surprise I had to actually defend the idea that things that cost money aren't free.
but otherwise, yeah, totally.
Except that you don't, and they give them to you for just being subbed.
And this business model that depends on people buying their way up ?
How many are left that didn't already spend their money to get them ? Or do you expect the revenue from new players that are willing to spend 400 bucks to get just the costumes to overwhelm the sales from everyone else at 5 or 10 buck price point.
Yeah this thread delivers the funny the way Pagliacci does.