The big letdown: Staff

Staff fighting is a great concept and fun to play, or it was til I realized the dmg output just isn't there. Staff fighting is a melee set and therefore should have an above average damage output. It doesn't, it's average at best. Such a disappointment making it another set to sit in the closet along side the Beast MM, again a great concept and fun to play but the damage just isn't there.

I've heard that what it lacks in single target damage is more than made up in AoE damage.

Speak for yourself...Found it to be fine here, and that was before last night when I finally got to slot SOs at 22.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I am speaking for myself. At lower levels it was great but now at 50 and running DA mishes and itrials, it is subpar in performance IMHO. It should be on par with TW at least.

Your tears are delicious. Many of us are having a grand time. Sorry you can't enjoy a fun set because of a powergaming munchkin problem on your part.

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Originally Posted by Hell Razer I am speaking for myself. At lower levels it was great but now at 50 and running DA mishes and itrials, it is subpar in performance IMHO. It should be on par with TW at least.

Staff is a terrible set. You can't solo with it and if you team with it all you're doing is leeching. I got kicked off of every team I joined with my staff brute and I couldn't understand why. Finally yesterday XxGokuxX clued me in after kicking me: staff sucks because it doesn't do any damage. It had been staring me in the face the entire time but it took the words of a sage for the last piece to fall into place. At once I leapt from my chair, somersaulted around the room and sat back down, my purpose truly clear for the first time: I had to reroll. But to what? Well, the one thing I'm sure about is that damage is strong. Another thing I learned one time is that fire hurts. I'm still trying to work out how to apply this information but I have a couple good leads.

I've not looked closely at the numbers, so I'm not sure of the OP's premise is correct or not, but power sets should be in line with each other performance-wise. You shouldn't be put in the position of having to choose between performance and concept.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

What form(s) were you using? Pre-DOs I stuck with the end redux one, personally. Post-SO, however, I'm using the damage buffing one and loving every minute of it.

Also, what defensive set did you couple it with?

Damage numbers be damned, I can't dislike a powerset with a 10+ feet radius PBAoE.

Going to echo what has been said, don't ever expect another TW. If you use one of the two best options as your baseline for performance, you will be disappointed often.

Staff is ok, definetly not OP but not worthless, imo. One issue i find with the set is the lack of a tohitt buff of some sort. Really wish i had participated in the beta more to suggest that a tohitt buff was added to the form of body. I think you can get some tohitt buff by using the t9 with 3 stacks of form of body, but simply adding a small tohitt buff to form of body per each stack i think would be nice. Not looking forward to fighting drones, CoT demon LTs, etc etc if i'm caught with no yellow insps.

Love staff fighting and here's some numbers to compare for the fun of it

Staff fighting tier 9,189.9
Broadsword tier 9, 187.7
Dark melee tier 9, 189.9
Dual blades tier 9, 161.5
Fire melee tier 9, 207
Katana tier 9, 164
Martial arts tier 9, 164
Street justice tier 9, 218.8(more then fire? sounds like something needs a nerf)
Titan tier 9, 166
Kinetic melee tier 9, 222.7(no build up or combo points system to up damage seems like a fair trade)

Seems pretty comparable so far

OK lets check the main aoes of some sets(I'll try to use PBAOEs when possible)

Staff fighting EOTS 84.65
Broadsword Whirling Sword 87.59
Dark melee Shadow maul 148.4(still meh cause it's a lame super short cone)
Dual blades Typhoons edge 78.45
Fire melee Fire sword circle 126.7
Katana The lotus drops 91.34
Martial arts dragons tail 81.2
Street justice spinning strike 106(not a true pbaoe but TAOE not nearly as good imo but gets better damage to make up for it)
Titan Whirling Smash 95.05
Kinetic melee Burst 86.02

ok how about the few sets that get range attacks(ST only I'll try)

Staff Serpents reach 123.9
Claws focus 95.66
Kinetic melee Focused Burst 112.9
Spines Impale 137.9


Everything seems pretty balanced to me with a few outliers here and there but nothing to big.

I love staff for a few reasons. It has good a range attack love them in my melee sets. And aoe power that gives +def and cool animations and the damage seems comparable what more could I really ask for.

i still Staff on lines with Dual blades with its power ups - n + def etc. its super fun

Snip

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Originally Posted by Leo_G . That is, it does weaker ST dmg but what it does get is better and faster than Spines. .

Did you just say staff has worse ST damage then spines? O.o

QUOTE=Lucky666;4209484

Love staff fighting and here's some numbers to compare for the fun of it

Staff fighting tier 9,189.9
Broadsword tier 9, 187.7 [But Head Splitter can hit 5 foes]
Dark melee tier 9, 189.9 [Mostly Neg Energy dmg too]
Dual blades tier 9, 161.5 [Can hit 10 foes...easily]
Fire melee tier 9, 207
Katana tier 9, 164 [Can Also hit 5]
Martial arts tier 9, 164 [Buffs dmg on Tankers, has a substantial crit bonus on Scrappers and plain hits harder on Stalkers (for the same as Midnight Grasp)]
Street justice tier 9, 218.8(more then fire? sounds like something needs a nerf)
Titan tier 9, 166 [Hits 5]
Kinetic melee tier 9, 222.7(no build up or combo points system to up damage seems like a fair trade) [Has a chance to recharge Power Siphon instantly or BU for Stalkers]

Seems pretty comparable so far

OK lets check the main aoes of some sets(I'll try to use PBAOEs when possible)

Staff fighting EOTS 84.65
Broadsword Whirling Sword 87.59 [Not an actual advantage belonging to the set itself but, you can slot the achilles proc here]
Dark melee Shadow maul 148.4(still meh cause it's a lame super short cone) [Then practice. It's childs play to hit 5 foes with it and it hits nearly as hard as some tier 9s and recharges way way faster and costs nearly nothing]
Dual blades Typhoons edge 78.45
Fire melee Fire sword circle 126.7 [15ft]
Katana The lotus drops 91.34
Martial arts dragons tail 81.2 [Oh so much faster and sleeker too]
Street justice spinning strike 106(not a true pbaoe but TAOE not nearly as good imo but gets better damage to make up for it)
Titan Whirling Smash 95.05 [Has a 15ft radius too]
Kinetic melee Burst 86.02

ok how about the few sets that get range attacks(ST only I'll try)

Staff Serpents reach 123.9 [I didn't know Serpents did more damage...however kind of peeved it doesn't have the knock chance I wanted...maybe this is why I'm not feeling this set. I needed a strong super knockback power in this set...Titan Weapons has a few 100% KD ripe to slot for KB to give that option of a 'I just swatted yo *** 50ft away' concept which is exactly what I wanted from Staff and not much else...]
Claws focus 95.66 [Ultimately, it'll probably do more damage than any of them. Focus is fast, decently powerful, cheap and has a juicy 100% KD chance which is very nice for mitigation]
Kinetic melee Focused Burst 112.9 [Focused Burst is probably the worst of these type of attacks...it's slow and doesn't really edge anyone out on dmg.]
Spines Impale 137.9 [At least this does nice damage despite being old and slow. I haven't yet fully slotted Serpents to decide which I like best but so far Focus is 1st, Impale is 2nd and Focused Burst is Last.]

[You also forgot Stone Melee and Super Strength with their tRow rOk power]


Everything seems pretty balanced to me with a few outliers here and there but nothing to big.

I don't see an exceptionally whack balance job either...I just wish the stances were actually something the set can really boast...and when I say boast, I mean *NOT* just one of the stances. All of them.