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Satire != lie. Having any knowledge of (1) CoH's general population, (2) Staff's performance, and (3) Staff's current massive popularity would make it obviously not the case.| Because unless I know someone is a liar I generally believe they are telling the truth. YMMV, but that is far more pleasant than thinking that everyone is a liar. |
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| Besides, I read the Rude Tells thread and some of that stuff makes his story seem plausible. |
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Poe's Law. It is likely in effect here.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I thought it was satirical.
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Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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When in doubt, check the poster's history. His posts in that other thread on staffs should make it patently clear what his position is.
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Originally Posted by Kirsten
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Dunno, i thought the goku thing was the giveaway. plus the fire hurting thing was laying it on really thick..
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Originally Posted by Kirsten
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I think we're forgetting the context. Comicbook universe and all.|
Originally Posted by Black_Assassin
Because thematics has nothing to do with it. I will tell you for a fact now you will feel more pain from being hit by a bo than you will by an impossibly heavy and overlarge sword.
And it isnt a thin stick....infact i have a 'thin stick' and the only time i managed to damage it was when i accidentally whacked a brick wall with it....and the wood split slightly. |
That said, it's a game as wll, sets are going to be different. TW is a powerful set, it also has a mechanic in the set that annoys some people, that no matter how powerful the set is, they won't play it because of it.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Yes, because the only thing that matters is damage, amirite!|
Originally Posted by Hell Razer
Staff fighting is a great concept and fun to play, or it was til I realized the dmg output just isn't there. Staff fighting is a melee set and therefore should have an above average damage output. It doesn't, it's average at best. Such a disappointment making it another set to sit in the closet along side the Beast MM, again a great concept and fun to play but the damage just isn't there.
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</sarcasm>
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Depends on whether momentum is active or not. If not, its single hit damage is huge but DPS is "meh". If momentum IS active, the DPS is insane.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
(wait, I thought TW's damage wasn't exactly great?)
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Eye of the Storm is one of the 'worst' AoEs in the game. It's damage is pitifully low, and it's Radius wasn't even put at 15 to justify it. It's like a horribly neutered Foot Stomp. It BADLY needed a damage boost, or to be Radius 15.|
Originally Posted by Snowzone
I've heard that what it lacks in single target damage is more than made up in AoE damage.
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Guarded Spin is decent, although it suffers from maximum target cap shenanigans.
Innocuous Strikes is Guarded Spin, with slightly higher damage for a slightly higher animation.
Staff's AoE is pretty average. The quantity is there, but the quality isn't.
Staff's Single Target is bloody average (Stalker not included here).
It's an average set that would be a lot better if the AoE's were slightly stronger, be it Radius, Caps, or Damage.
And maybe Serpent's Reach being more of a standard 'heavy hitter', and not 'derp short range' gimmick.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Depends on whether momentum is active or not. If not, its single hit damage is huge but DPS is "meh". If momentum IS active, the DPS is insane.
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WITH it? Best in game, no comparisons, in EVERY single area of damage. (Outlier cases of Stalker StJ being very RNG polite not considered, due to LolRNG).
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...Um... satirical comedy is not lying. Sure, it's not truthful, but lying is usually done with the intent to deceive, which this was not. This was done with the intent to make people laugh.
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Originally Posted by DevilYouKnow
Because unless I know someone is a liar I generally believe they are telling the truth. YMMV, but that is far more pleasant than thinking that everyone is a liar.
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Uh... it does more damage than 14-second AoEs like Whirling Mace, and less than 20-second AoEs like Fire Sword Circle. If you count Perfection damage, it does more than Foot Stomp. It has a larger-than-normal radius for a melee PBAoE, although yes, a few powers are larger still.|
Originally Posted by Reppu
Eye of the Storm is one of the 'worst' AoEs in the game. It's damage is pitifully low, and it's Radius wasn't even put at 15 to justify it. It's like a horribly neutered Foot Stomp. It BADLY needed a damage boost, or to be Radius 15.
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I get that it's not an incredible top-tier attack, but I have no idea how you arrive at "one of the worst AoEs in the game".
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Those days were LOOOOONG before CoH was even a glimmber in Whacko Jacko's eye...
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Originally Posted by fallenz
*Just smile and remember the days when playing was done for fun and not for the numbers..*
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Virtue Server
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Jesus Mother of God for once in your life stop complaining and just be grateful you at least got something new!
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The word you're looking for is "hyperbole". It's a rather common tactic on game forums when someone's trying to gun for buffs for their pet build.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Uh... it does more damage than 14-second AoEs like Whirling Mace, and less than 20-second AoEs like Fire Sword Circle. If you count Perfection damage, it does more than Foot Stomp. It has a larger-than-normal radius for a melee PBAoE, although yes, a few powers are larger still.
I get that it's not an incredible top-tier attack, but I have no idea how you arrive at "one of the worst AoEs in the game". |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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I'm finding Staff to be ridiculously fun and powerful.
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Originally Posted by Hell Razer
Staff fighting is a great concept and fun to play, or it was til I realized the dmg output just isn't there. Staff fighting is a melee set and therefore should have an above average damage output. It doesn't, it's average at best. Such a disappointment making it another set to sit in the closet along side the Beast MM, again a great concept and fun to play but the damage just isn't there.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I know with me saying this it's the pot calling the kettle black, but really?
Really?
Staff is a nice set. A very nice set.
Numerically, Mechanically, visually.
It may not be what some people wanted, but it's a good set.
Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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Rude much? Assumptions with out evidence are crude. Emphasis on three letters, by the way.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
The word you're looking for is "hyperbole". It's a rather common tactic on game forums when someone's trying to gun for buffs for their pet build.
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Moving on... DPA for PBAoE's for Scrappers-
Whirling Smash: 80.05
Spinning Strike (Arguably a PBAOE, disregard if desired): 53.62
Dragon's Tail: 47.32
The Lotus Drops: 46.31
Fire Sword Circle: 43.63
And For Fun: Foot Stomp with equal rage to Scrapper base values: 43.28
Spin: 41.19
Typhoon's Edge: 31.28
Eye of the Storm: 30.54 (with no perfection? Willing to argue this is the value you will normally be using. More power to you if you get Perfection 3 before using it.)
Whirling Sword: 30.16
Burst: 29.62
Whirling Mace: 26.54
Spine Burst: 25.87
Whirling Axe: 23.7
My apologies for saying 'worst' (Even if it's categorized, base values, near that). It is "Average", I should have emphasized.
Radius 2 more does help, and if you do Perfection it (And most enemies will be dead at the time you build Perfection 3), it's a bit better. I'm going by the logical standpoint you will NOT have Perfection 3 for it, and still hit near or at it's Maximum 10 enemies.
Yes, I do value DPA over Recharge/Endurance/Such things. Such measures are pointless in the grand scheme of extreme building, and I've already said Staff is fine with out IOs, but has little room to grow with them on Scrappers.
TL;DR - Eye of the Storm is Average. But since the PBAOEs above it are very much marginally superior, while the ones below it are not marginally inferior, it IS "One of the worst PBAoE's in the game" due to Power Creep.
Justified.
DPA is far less meaningful when talking about AoE attacks, though. Very few builds have a full AoE attack chain, and even the ones that do often have much smaller AoEs as parts of the chain. Comparing by that alone WILL be misleading, as you can see by Foot Stomp being not so far above EotS. I'm not talking about recharge/end cost/secondary effects. I mean that Whirling Smash casting in less than half the time does not mean Whirling Smash is more than twice as good, because in the extra 1.5 seconds you have left over after Whirling Smash, you don't have unlimited other huge radial attacks to use.
My objection is that "middle of the pack by a metric skewed against it, within the category of melee PBAoEs" is not even close to the same thing as "one of the worst in the game". Also, endurance/recharge/etc being solvable with extreme builds does not mean they are solved automatically; a Titan Weapons character can overcome their endurance problems, for example, which solves the set's biggest drawback, but it has to devote not-insignificant build resources to it. Other sets can use those resources towards improving other things. Or how Super Reflexes builds can pursue more damage/health/regen/recharge/whatever than many other sets, because they need to devote far less of the build to reaching the softcap.
Looks at thread title.
Yeah folks will say anything stupid enough if they want unnecessary buffs.
Big letdown my a^&.
I think the term in response to the thread is "learn to *&^*(&g play"
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Who cares? It's fun.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
Number assessment
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Fun is subjective, numbers are objective. They aren't a part of the same discussion.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Who cares? It's fun.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
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I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
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Well, the fun is why Staff isn't a letdown to me. So, 'letdown' is subjective.
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Fun is subjective, numbers are objective. They aren't a part of the same discussion.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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That's fair.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Well, the fun is why Staff isn't a letdown to me. So, 'letdown' is subjective.
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@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
Code:
I24 Proc Chance = (Enhanced Recharge + Activation Time) * (Current PPM * 1.25) / 60*(1 + .75*(.15*Radius - 0.011*Radius*(360-Arc)/30)) Single Target Radius = 0. AoE Non-Cone Arc = 360.
You know...if all the hate for Staff Fighting gets Staff Fighting an increase to 15ft from 10ft in it's PBAOE, I'm willing to start hating Staff Fighting. >_>;;
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Besides, I read the Rude Tells thread and some of that stuff makes his story seem plausible.
But if you know it's not true then let me know. I don't like to be fooled but i prefer that than utter cynicism.