To say that the difference between my issue 6 claws/regen and my issue 22 elec/ice is night and day would be to substantially understate it. It's more like the surface of mercury versus a supercooled dark matter detector in a mine shaft a mile underground. Even so, I'm fairly sure that had my original stalker not been one of the worst possible combinations I would still have been blown away by what they can now do. Good job Paragon, you made me fall back in love with controllers and newly smitten with stalkers all in one issue.
Couldn't agree more. Stalkers have been my AT of choice since I started playing - I'm a rogue-er at heart and always will be, but prior to i22 and Stalker's Guile it was generally accepted that stalkers filled no role in a team that couldn't better be covered by a brute. Soloing they were fun but they served little purpose in a group. Now...
Well damn. Stalkers are actually an asset. They burn through bosses like butter and sport decent AOE if you pick the right primary. Advocates of stalkers have always said their role is to drop hard targets but now they actually CAN, and do it far more efficiently than other ATs.
What I've found even more gratifying is the way stalkers can shine as team LEADERS. I've been leading Mo runs lately with my StJ/Nin and it's amazing that I can stay at the head of the group, scout/lead in stealth, toss blinding powder in the eyes of the largest cluster, position behind the hardest target, then drop him like a bag of bricks just as my team rounds the bend and I toss caltrops on the ground. With Incandescence/Recall Friend/ATT I can also sneak to wherever the team needs to be and TP it there at the drop of a hat.
It's nice too that they don't feel OVERpowered. They simply excel in the field they're meant to excel in.
The Grim Saint - Virtueverse [1323 Badges]
I agree! I've wanted to like stalkers for so long (took elec/nin to 50, but that was it) and just couldn't do it...
BUT NOW. Oh yes.
I've been playing my mid 30s sj/ea in between "more serious" play on other alts and just loving her. I hit single targets like a truck... who cares if aoe is low? (Although sj's isn't the worst). The new AS is really just... so good. Early game attack chain issues were one of my main problems with Stalker builds - much less of a problem now.
Also - is anyone still using placate? I haven't used it once since i22. I mean, I *could* use it for the crit but I just don't feel the need. It's no good for a set mule so I'm debating dropping it... I was thinking it might still have some use as an OSH#$ power or vs EBs/AVs or something. Eh, I'll probably hang on to it with the initial slot, maybe respec and grab it at 49.
I've been wanting to do staff/ice stalker for a quite a while (originally wanted TW/ice...but staff/ will have to do) - I was going to do it even before the changes but now I'm actually really excited about it.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
[QUOTE=Lobster;4179873]
Also - is anyone still using placate? I haven't used it once since i22. I mean, I *could* use it for the crit but I just don't feel the need. It's no good for a set mule so I'm debating dropping it... I was thinking it might still have some use as an OSH#$ power or vs EBs/AVs or something. Eh, I'll probably hang on to it with the initial slot, maybe respec and grab it at 49./QUOTE]
I had the same thoughts on placate. It has some uses solo, but in a group I haven't used it, either. The crit you get from *just playing* is enough. Like you, I will probably still have it, but it became much more situational, but I don't mind.
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers
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There's been some debate, but for my money the utility of placate has decreased enough to make it worth dropping. If you put the ATE proc in AS and always follow it with your most damaging attack (Crushing Uppercut, Eagles Claw, what have you) you'll find placate does next to nothing for your overall DPS since you'd be using it to get a crit on a less damaging power. It's only really handy as an "oh ****" button when you're soloing an AV, like you said. I dropped it and haven't missed it one lick. I picked up fly instead so I'm not reliant on jetpacks and put a Zephyr in it to bring my total KB protect to 12, effectively plugging the only hole in my mez protection.
| Also - is anyone still using placate? I haven't used it once since i22. I mean, I *could* use it for the crit but I just don't feel the need. It's no good for a set mule so I'm debating dropping it... I was thinking it might still have some use as an OSH#$ power or vs EBs/AVs or something. Eh, I'll probably hang on to it with the initial slot, maybe respec and grab it at 49. |
The Grim Saint - Virtueverse [1323 Badges]
I rolled a StJ/EA when I resubbed a couple weeks back (I resubbed to get the "free" PP to buy StJ with 
) and... holy crap. Like you said, the difference is absurd. My very first character on either side was a Nin/Regen Stalker... and even after many issues, I still had trouble soloing loads of harder bosses. I hated playing the character. I kept rolling Stalkers, and they kept feeling weak.
Now? My StJ does crazy damage, and I feel like I can actually scrap right alongside Scrappers, Brutes, and anyone else that uses melee. Disrupt is also a great power, it turns minions into drunk Energy Drain fuel
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There were troller changes? I hadn't heard anything about that |
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Good job Paragon, you made me fall back in love with controllers and newly smitten with stalkers all in one issue.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Oh I just meant via the addition of dark control. It was nobody's fault but mine that I hadn't played a new controller in a while.
On the subject of placate, I was agonizing at levels 26 and 30 about what to take and I ended up taking recall friend and fly. I hardly ever use either but they're handy when they're handy. Placate was never considered for selection.
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I've been wanting to get fly into my build, maybe that's the way to do it! I might feel a bit dirty for awhile if I do tho. >_>;;
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Oh I just meant via the addition of dark control. It was nobody's fault but mine that I hadn't played a new controller in a while.
On the subject of placate, I was agonizing at levels 26 and 30 about what to take and I ended up taking recall friend and fly. I hardly ever use either but they're handy when they're handy. Placate was never considered for selection. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Specifically gravity changes.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
There were troller changes? I hadn't heard anything about that
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They also made containment damage work on trial AVs.
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I feel kind of bad.. I'm up to +2/0 on my sj/ea at 34 - running only SOs except for the ATIO set in the taoe. I'd call that at least passable. |
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Now? My StJ does crazy damage, and I feel like I can actually scrap right alongside Scrappers, Brutes, and anyone else that uses melee. Disrupt is also a great power, it turns minions into drunk Energy Drain fuel
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I generally don't even bother with build up anymore either...I do love me some Disrupt but man I wish they would have done something different with the graphics; it gives me headaches. I keep trying to find different color schemes to minimize it but no luck yet.
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
Here is what every stalker player should worry about at this point "Stalkers are working a little better than intended, they may see some small tweaks." J/K
Stalkers are a force to be reckoned with now that is for sure. They are far more fun than any incarnation before.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
I always gravitate to the high damage output melee toon in any game. Stalkers did not live up to this before, they seem to achieve that now (at least it feels right now).
The limited AoE hurts, but Assassin Strike is so amazing it pretty much makes up for it.
I am concerned about the fact that the entire AT is all about one attack though....
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Some sets have rather passable AoE (aka StJ). A lot of them have very little, but a Stalker now does enough damage that you can contribute on a fast moving team by dishing out such ST damage (dropping bosses and LTs, as the AoEs kill the minions and weaken things). A lot of the older sets might still need a bit of looking at wrt that front, but the newer ones (StJ & KM) sound like they've found a nice sweet spot.|
Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA
The limited AoE hurts, but Assassin Strike is so amazing it pretty much makes up for it.
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| I am concerned about the fact that the entire AT is all about one attack though.... |
AS is wonderful now, but, I feel less like it's a crutch.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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I would hope not. I believe the devs would have to recognize that those that stuck with the AT for so long learned how to get every bit of effectiveness out of them, and when these more accommodating changes were made, the benefits became seemingly overflowing. My take away from the candid feedback is that they righted the ship on this AT, but let's see what folks are saying after a couple of months.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Here is what every stalker player should worry about at this point "Stalkers are working a little better than intended, they may see some small tweaks." J/K
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As for my experiences, they are limited (having only been back in game a few days after a month or so away). I used to be one that reveled in the old placate/fadeaway-and-strike sort of playstyle. It still feels a bit wrong to go toe to toe more often - but there's no denying that it works rather well (and, yes, I know, I can and still do use the old style at times).
In short, still getting used to the changes, but liking them so far. It's nice at least that narrow minded team leaders are more accepting of the AT.
@Greblaja, @Greblaja 2, @Greb, @Greb 2
Player of (lvl 50s) Blue Hammer, Action Lass, Autumn Gale, Crimson Hammer, Thundertoe, Blast Hammer, Crimson Clash, Greblaja, Wabu, Gray Hammer, Briar Pyre, Electro Gal, Rooftop Sentinel, and many, many more
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Roll ELM or StJ and you'll have sets that have the same AOE as the Scrapper/Brute/Tanker version of the set. |
Originally Posted by Arkadian_NA
I always gravitate to the high damage output melee toon in any game. Stalkers did not live up to this before, they seem to achieve that now (at least it feels right now).
The limited AoE hurts, but Assassin Strike is so amazing it pretty much makes up for it. I am concerned about the fact that the entire AT is all about one attack though.... |
Roll ELM and you'll have better ST than the other melee ATs with the powerset
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Fixed.
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Originally Posted by brandx
Roll elm and you'll have far better st than the other melee ats with the powerset
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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What's the ST chain for ElM assuming good slotting etc which procs would you slot where?
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Roll ELM or StJ and you'll have sets that have the same AOE as the Scrapper/Brute/Tanker version of the set.
Roll ELM and you'll have better ST than the other melee ATs with the powerset |
[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child
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AS-CI-JL-CB|
Originally Posted by Black_Assassin
What's the ST chain for ElM assuming good slotting etc which procs would you slot where?
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AS with Stalkers Guile and a regular PPM proc(Mako's is nice).
CI with Hecatomb and a regular PPM proc.
JL with Armageddon and the pvp -res proc.
CB with whatever, it can get away with slotting 3 procs but they won't be PPM. Personally I went for 4 slots, 3 Makos(+5) and one Mako proc. I could try to squeeze in a couple extra slots but I don't care about ST DPS that much.
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
It'd be pretty scary to have JB as part of your attack chain, I think you mean JL. Sometimes I run CB-JL-CB-AS-CI even though I can run CB-JL-AS-CI gaplessly because it's more likely to generate assassin's focus, it costs a lot less endurance per second, and I put the hecatomb proc into CB for precisely that reason.
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JB - Jacobs ladder?
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
AS-CI-JB-CB
AS with Stalkers Guile and a regular PPM proc(Mako's is nice). CI with Hecatomb and a regular PPM proc. JB with Armageddon and the pvp -res proc. CB with whatever, it can get away with slotting 3 procs but they won't be PPM. Personally I went for 4 slots, 3 Makos(+5) and one Mako proc. I could try to squeeze in a couple extra slots but I don't care about ST DPS that much. |
[Union Chat]Sebaddon: If you want to, we will, if you think it's weird, no, that's damz, not us.
[Union Chat]Damz: hey cyber, i am your naked pope for the evening, please confess to me my child
Assassin's Strike is a little too strong now. It does, badly, need to get normalized ASAP. Other than that, the changes are good.
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LOL yeah I meant JL, silly acronyms.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It'd be pretty scary to have JB as part of your attack chain, I think you mean JL. Sometimes I run CB-JL-CB-AS-CI even though I can run CB-JL-AS-CI gaplessly because it's more likely to generate assassin's focus, it costs a lot less endurance per second, and I put the hecatomb proc into CB for precisely that reason.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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I thought so too at first, but looking at the survivability and AoE of a stalker compared with a scrapper it just about evens out.
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Originally Posted by Reppu
Assassin's Strike is a little too strong now. It does, badly, need to get normalized ASAP. Other than that, the changes are good.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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That argument fails with recent power creep sets like Kinetic Melee, Street Justice, and soon Staff Fighting. KM lost it's worst AoE nobody cares about and has an auto crit, StJ kept BOTH AoEs, and Staff is only losing it's really bad AoE.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
I thought so too at first, but looking at the survivability and AoE of a stalker compared with a scrapper it just about evens out.
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This doesn't 'balance out', and Assassin's Strike WILL be normalized. That's a fact. I'm simply saying it's far too powerful right now until they're all normalized. It won't change much, but it will be a nerf to Kinetic Melee. Which.. doesn't honestly need it.
StJ does need a flat nerf on Stalkers. Best way to do that? Lower the base damage of Crushing Uppercut, Spinning Strike, and Sweeping Cross, put that damage into the Combo Damage metric. AKA; they crit for less, but still do the same non-critical damage.
Easy enough fix.
I am the type of player that has a toon for every powerset (well, until I FINALLY deleted my emp and pain dom because I just don't enjoy them). When CoV started, I built a stalker for every set available then and even took an nrg/nrg to 50 so that I could have that experience. That said, Stalkers were by far my least favorite AT for the last several years.
Then the changes happened, so I jumped on a couple of my stalkers again. Wow. I didn't know what they could do to make me like stalkers, but they shocked me and I LOVE the new stalker. I even created a StJ/Elec and got him to 25 in no time--LOVE HIM.
Did anyone else find that the tweaks to Stalkers made all the difference?
Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers