WOW--Stalkers ROCK now

Only you would look for such details, Leo_G. Only you.

I won't 'get off it', but I do agree other sets could use some looking at. I also feel it is a major minority issue compared to the Blaster disparity. So, that's that.

Also, Ninja Blade? Hrm.

Not so much squishy anymore, truth be told.

Hold on, I need to stop you here. Regardless of who the poster is, it is foolhardy to consider calculated dps as actual dps. There are too many possibilities of either an error in calculation or forgetting to take all variables into account. This is not to say I think Auroxis's calculations are off, because they usually corroborate my own. You should only use actual dps times until Auroxis actually gets the numbers for said build in practice.

Aside from that, I am only halfway through this thread, but I would like to point out that the top dps stalker build so far has only outdone the top dps scrapper build by about 3 dps (and that's an older scrapper build, before ATOs).

Well then, even better! There always has to be an alpha ST set, though I do say StJ doesn't have the coolest sound effects, other than on AS and CU. Just let it be, man. If the other sets get fixed, who knows what might happen....

Heck, for all I know, they'll reduce the lethal damage resistance for PvE...

Perhaps it will discourage you from posting the same pic a third, fourth or fifth time in the same thread >_>

And I'm saying that if you include a margin of error with all the years of gathered info, it is not illogical, nor impossible, to go purely off math. In fact, I did that with Beast Mastery on beta, and people called me out for it. (Although I did field testing, which I regretted since I was, you know, positive.)

I ended up being right and not a SINGLE person has spoken up since then. So, I know what I'm talking about. IF there is a long basis of trial and error and you have sufficient data and information, you CAN base performance purely off of numeric testing, and not field. Is Field Testing superior? Of course it is.

But writing off anything else is just ignorant, ESPECIALLY with Pylon Tests.

I'm also well aware Stalkers aren't terribly beating Scrappers, and I'm not saying they were. But it's still pretty early in Stalker 3.0's lifetime. We'll have to Wait and See.

Although I still totally support the AS normalization.

Nope. Just makes me think your fetish is getting a little too obvious, though! >_>

You are comparing estimated guesses (however well-informed) at their upper limits to demonstrated data points not necessarily even optimized nor in an ideal situation. Apples to orangutans. I know for a fact that top scrapper time that the street justice build just out-dpsed could be higher, because it was my build and has room for improvements.

If your beast mastery estimate turned out to be accurate, good for you; that does not mean all estimations of this nature can be taken as fact. I say this as someone who does calculations all the time; I am not saying you do not know what you are doing, or that Auroxis does not, but that these things must be taken as interesting theory and nothing more unless proven otherwise.

Of course they're just a theory. Theories are not proofs, ever. Hell, most of modern science is a theory, but a commonly accepted one. Until it is field-tested, it is a theory. A powerful theory due to the nature of Pylon Tests being just executed math, but still a theory.

In THEORY, Street Justice will be performing well above the next step up. This is bad, so it is a theory that NEEDS to be tested. If only because Martial Arts probably shouldn't be losing to anything due to, well, it sacrificed everything for Single Target.

Is this an issue? Not a MASSIVE one, but outliers always need to be kept under a careful gaze.

I agree it should be tested, and if it turns out to be 400+ dps, that is probably a problem (though two brute sets are up there already, which is a bigger issue IMO). We will see. Regardless, Stalker MA and all version of EM are not performing on even footing.

Pylon Tests and Brutes do not work. Pylon Tests are their greatest strength. Why do you think Brutes were largely excluded from those tests? Long fights are where Brutes shine, and as such they are not considered the same as Scrappers (and Stalkers) in regard.

This is not to say I believe Super Strength doesn't need to nerfed. It does. Rage needs to work only for Super Strength powers, which a damage bonus increase to make up for it, since SS with out abusing Rage in Secondary/Patron attacks is pretty lackluster.

Titan Weapons is a set I do think could use some tweaks, but... it's hard to say HOW. Titan Weapons is actually a good set even with out momentum (Superior to Broadsword, at the very least. And Broadsword is considered fairly average). WITH Momentum it's... retarded.

But I'm one of the people that will say Brutes can't be judged in the same manner, but still agree that SS (Rage) needs a nerf, and TW needs tweaks.

This is truth.

Don't worry I don't bite (normally). Exactly. Stalker is meant to have the highest 10/10 Melee Rating and it is the old sets that don't match up to 10/10 excellency. The newer sets are similar to what Scrapper/Brute get so why should we nerf them just because other old sets are weaker?

Stalker is supposed to out damage Brute and other ATs without buff/debuff situation. If some of you feel your Stalker is doing GREAT damage now, congrats, that's what the design goal is.

Requires going the route of combos. And to be fair, StJ was released AFTER the fact.

If StJ was released in i6 with CoV, it's likely be missing it's Tagretted AOE.

But yes, StJ has to maintain it's combo levels to have that better ST DPS.

Do we know how much MA loses by in the ST DPS?

I was going to mention those two sets.. I've tried Beam Rifle on Blaster. It has very high ST damage but overpowered? No way.

My Beast/Time is lvl 29. It's a fun set for me because I've always loved the "Druid" theme. This set has some critical problems and mainly it's because they are all melee-oriented. There are some minor AI issues and survival issue 'cause pets all run in (easy target for massive aoe).

I won't call Beast and Beam Rifle "pay to win" sets. /Time is strong and the dev has said that they want /Time to be as popular as /Kin and /Rad. /Time makes /Poison look bad but is that really /Time's problem or /Poison just needs a bit more love? /Poison has always been a less popular set and for a good reason.

Don't know about TW because stalker doesn't get it. And the new Staff looks good to me. I think Staff will be in the middle ground for ST and AoE. There is nothing wrong to be in the middle ground.

Why would you nerf Rage to only work with SS powers, when BU/AIM powers work for all the other powers as well?

Because I worry that people know who and how I screw. Umhmm.

Just watch your redundancy meter, little miss. We run tight watch of our internet memes 'round these parts.

And there's a video on Youtube with a DB Stalker hitting 342.

So what am I missing. Where's the big difference?

I agree. I think the dev knows that some old sets are suffering a lot without that one good pbaoe.

In a way, I am happy that they recognize this so when they take one power out, it's usually not the most critical one. SJ is a good example. It lacks Rib Cracker (would have been my favorite move though!) but it has AS and gains two combo points. And really, SJ's aoe has pretty small radius (but high damage). Fair enough!

Kinetic Melee is a strange one. I know many players who I play with do not like the aoe knock back cone. Well, Stalker doesn't have that problem. Stalker has a very high damage Burst and refreshing Build Up system.

Staff loses one cone but the set still has one cone in Guarded and a pbaoe in Eye of Storm. Stalker Staff gains an amazing ST attack and the trade off is the lack of Form variety. Fair enough.


Looking at MA Stalker, the set really has no need for Thunder Kick.

I don't like memes, so when I find one I DO like, I'm going to keep using it.

Besides, it's not like I can't walk into a single active thread and see the same meme fired off at least twice.

That, and it's the best thing ever. A hedgehog, entirely vulnerable, telling someone to bring it on? That's how serious I took the conversation, thus why I used it twice. It was dumb and... you're distracting me. Leo_G stop that.

Ahhh, this poor counter again.

So you think 10 Seconds of 100% (or 80% in some AT's) and 62.5% (50% in some AT's) for 10 seconds is equal to and worth the same as 80% for 120 Seconds?

... >_>

If it's that big of a deal, fine. Nerf Build Up and Aim too? But the fact you think Build Up and Aim are equal to Rage...

...

Okay.

I suspect that you would be quick to point out the lack of logic in that statement were someone else to utter it - just because no one disagrees does not mean that you are right.

Also, some of us (me, at least) have spoken up and are seriously examining the question and field testing it with actual play - I'm just not 50 yet so I can't provide complete/high end feedback (taking a break from PLing ). As far as level 1-35 though, they don't feel terrible. So there is that.

I would agree that for some things you can generate a decent analysis & make some good predictions just based on the numbers - single target DPS being one of the best cases for that.

Quote the forum rule that prohibits the discussion of game balance, please.

In response, and in my defense, I say only the following;

You do know what assuming things makes you look like, right?

What kind of crack you smoking? Stalkers are better yes but there still needs to be more buffage. What I sooner see happening is them breaking the cottage rule and give some of the aoes back, specifically to MA and EM. Right now those are way too single target oriented.