Discussion: Featured Items at the Paragon Market - 3/13/12
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-03-13 09:29 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Quote:
How is it this when the Irish created the mythology/folklore themselves about the character?|
Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
My point, as has been noted elsewhere above, is that it's lazy cultural stereotyping.
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I don't get how people are trying to call this character a Irish "stereotype" when it is a created figure from myth and folklore. If someone was making a RL comment about Irish people and then making up a character based on that sure, but this one from their own myths and folklore? No I don't see how that fits the box you and others are trying to put it in (ie. stereotype).
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Erm, the Irish didn't create most of the things now commonly associated with them, such as the red hair, shamrocks or even the fact they wear green all the time. It was more that all those things accrued to it in movies and other media, things like those Lucky Charms cereals you have over there and films like Darby O'Gill. They all fed in together to propagate this amalgam of sterotypes which comes out every 17th of March. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
How is it this when the Irish created the mythology/folklore themselves about the character?
I don't get how people are trying to call this character a Irish "stereotype" when it is a created figure from myth and folklore. If someone was making a RL comment about Irish people and then making up a character based on that sure, but this one from their own myths and folklore? No I don't see how that fits the box you and others are trying to put it in (ie. stereotype). |
But I still don't find it an offensive stereotype, just a tiresome one. They're basically a cringeworthy tourist trap which symbolise everything twee which people seem to associate with Ireland.
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I might very well be way off base here, but this is my impression:|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
How is it this when the Irish created the mythology/folklore themselves about the character?
I don't get how people are trying to call this character a Irish "stereotype" when it is a created figure from myth and folklore. If someone was making a RL comment about Irish people and then making up a character based on that sure, but this one from their own myths and folklore? No I don't see how that fits the box you and others are trying to put it in (ie. stereotype). |
Because the present, cartoonish image is about as far from the actual myth figure as it could be. This is possibly because the most popularly retold stories involving it emphasize the 'pot of gold' (because the Irish are poor but greedy, you see) and 'getting fooled by the fae' (because the Irish aren't half as clever as they think they are).
To continue my analogy, what would you think of, let's say, a summonable Moses pet who had a staff that turned into a snake, or a summonable Jesus pet who had healing powers? Even if you yourself found such things amusing, could you see that some folks might be offended by them?
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
Quote:
As above I provided a link to http://www.yourirish.com/culture/ where these people claim to not only be Irish but embrace the very things you say are stereotypes, as myth and folklore of the people of Ireland since the time before the Celts.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Erm, the Irish didn't create most of the things now commonly associated with them, such as the red hair, shamrocks or even the fact they wear green all the time. It was more that all those things accrued to it in movies and other media, things like those Lucky Charms cereals you have over there and films like Darby O'Gill. They all fed in together to propagate this amalgam of sterotypes which comes out every 17th of March.
But I still don't find it an offensive stereotype, just a tiresome one. They're basically a cringeworthy tourist trap which symbolise everything twee which people seem to associate with Ireland. |
Stereotypes are based on real life people not mythological/folklore created characters.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Most of the items about Leprechauns in that article are not drawn from Celtic folklore. I'm afraid the internet is lying to you. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
As above I provided a link to http://www.yourirish.com/culture/ where these people claim to not only be Irish but embrace the very things you say are stereotypes, as myth and folklore of the people of Ireland since the time before the Celts.
Stereotypes are based on real life people not mythological/folklore created characters. |
Look, I'm tired of fighting about this to be honest, I find this item be be a lazy, sterotypical American trope of a Leprechaun and view of Ireland in general. You don't understand that.
Can we just leave it there?
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That's fine because often I find people becoming "too easily offended" by lazy stereotypes to be in and of itself a lazy stereotype that I'm all too easily offended by. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Can we just leave it there?
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Quote:
I've become what I hate |
Originally Posted by Lothic
That's fine because often I find people becoming "too easily offended" by lazy stereotypes to be in and of itself a lazy stereotype that I am all too easily offended by.
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*Dons Leprechaun Hat of Shame*
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Well at least you're good enough to admit it. I'll be the first to agree that the leprechaun in this game is probably a "lazy stereotype". But there's really far better things to be worried about both in this game and in real life in general. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I've become what I hate
*Dons Leprechaun Hat of Shame* |
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--{=====> Virtue ♀
Quote:
No lets not leave it there and maybe take this chance to educate us that are unaware of the proper origin of the Leprechaun if it is not based on Irish mythology and folklore. |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Most of the items about Leprechauns in that article are not drawn from Celtic folklore. I'm afraid the internet is lying to you.
Look, I'm tired of fighting about this to be honest, I find this item be be a lazy, sterotypical American trope of a Leprechaun and view of Ireland in general. You don't understand that. Can we just leave it there? |
In case you have not noticed I am not down for any type of stereotypes, but also want the word to be used properly for real life people and not a mythological character that was created by and came from that culture. It's not based a real Irish person or is it? What is the true origin of the character if it is not what is listed on that page?
Can you point us uneducated to a proper place to be educated to the view/perspective of the Leprechaun from the true Irish perspective.
I don't like this I'm tired fallback, no take the time to properly educate people man!!
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Catch that thread! 
I have already given my thoughts regarding the Leprechaun pet.
What I want to know is: why all the vanity pets? Let's see some more one-off costume pieces like the fireman's hat. They sell for lower prices, maintaining the "micro" in micro-transactions, which means more people are likely to buy them. In turn, that means the amount of time spent making the piece (most likely less than that spent making a vanity pet) is made back quicker, and with fewer customers. It's a win/win.
Seriously, smaller things are better if you want to maintain this weekly release schedule.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
To give some comparitively constructive critisism:
Bag all references to "holidays" and offer stuff centered around game lore. Frankly, I wouldnt be playing this game if I wanted to hear about current events. Now I understand holidays/observances give a good excuse to do such things, but their in-game manifestations are so non-sequitor it... doesnt really work. If you would do such things as use in-game references, select from a variety of Origen lines (dont make them exclusive obviously) to inspire you: like Celebration of Emporer Coles "defeat" of Hamidon aniversery complete with nucleolus to give minor regen buff... (yeah, thats prolly not accurate, but you know what I mean). I understand that part of this is to bring in new customers and that the appeals have to be conventional enough to apply to a large cross section of customers, but you have a *great* product that has plenty to stand on it's own merits - that could also help give a better sense of being part of the lore.
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AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
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To be fair, a Jewish equivalent of a leprechaun pet wouldn't be a Moses pet, it would be, for example, a golem pet. Moses would be an applicable example if the pet being offered here were... let's say Darby O'Gill.
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Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
To continue my analogy, what would you think of, let's say, a summonable Moses pet who had a staff that turned into a snake, or a summonable Jesus pet who had healing powers? Even if you yourself found such things amusing, could you see that some folks might be offended by them?
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FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
My thoughts...
Yes, 800pp is way too expensive. I bought it anyway, and only regret it a little. I had the points to spend, I don't play any other games, I don't spend a lot of money on other frivolous endeavors, so why not? I don't care one whit about the influence buff, I just bought it because I liked it and have all the other pets. (Yes, I'm a completest, much to my own chagrin!)
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Write customer service and tell them why you're not buying it. Post on the forums, like you're already doing. Be vocal. If sales are low, and they know why, maybe they'll take the hint.
None of the Paragon Market offerings are essential to playing the game. Sure, unslotters are nice, as is extra storage, but you don't need any of them to make a good character and enjoy playing said toon. If people enjoy buying a frisbee.. excuse me, flying disc, more power to them. If people want to buy Roman armor so they don't have to earn it in game, have at it. None of it affects gameplay or adversely affects those who choose not to buy these things.
Personally, I would love for things to be less expensive. But, like most businesses, they'll charge what they think they can get away with charging. That's Capitalism. And I think that the developers probably DO care about the players, but they're not the ones who set the price points.
As for stereotypes, Leprechauns will always be associated with Ireland. As an American living in Arkansas, I encourage you to make a redneck hillbilly, tobacco-chewing, Republican-voting, gun-toting scrapper. I won't be offended in the least. (Heck, I'll probably laugh!) Hey, at least you (Irish folks) have a rich tradition of mythology from which to draw. We have Uncle Sam and Bigfoot. 'Nuff said about that.
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
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I would pay good money for a golem pet! 
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
I and someone else has said it before and I will say it again:
Price uniformity...
If they did this sooner rather than later, they'd open the flood gates of many purchases. I'm all for microtransactions, however, this is highway robbery. As the market is right now it's like trying to milk the 400 we do get so that we, the VIP's spend cash to add more points to get those powersets that are upcoming.
I was also looking at them delicious enhancement slots, but 1600 is way way way to friggin much, even for an account wide purchase as are the costume slots. Alright i will put the bat away and stop bashing, but yeh uniformity, uniformity, uniformity.
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Yeah, it wasn't a very exact analogy at all.|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
To be fair, a Jewish equivalent of a leprechaun pet wouldn't be a Moses pet, it would be, for example, a golem pet. Moses would be an applicable example if the pet being offered here were... let's say Darby O'Gill.
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I was gunning for a figure that was both culturally representative (or at least widely taken to be), and heavily altered from the initial source material (Charlton Heston, anyone?). Imperfect fit at best, unfortunately.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
You want to give us something for St. Patrick's Day? Put
into the game. I'm sure people would pay 800 points for that!
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I wouldn't, beer is relatively cheap... you could get a case for about 10 bucks, but one glass for 10 bucks? About as overpriced as the little green guy if you ask me |
Originally Posted by Fluorescent
You want to give us something for St. Patrick's Day? Put
into the game. I'm sure people would pay 800 points for that! |
Besides, I don't like beer...
Eh, I'm removing this as humor just doesn't work when mixed with trying to be polite!
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I thought the Flying Disc was over priced for what it was, but not badly so. So I just wrote if off as something I enjoyed on the test server and *would* buy, but probably never will since a 25% off sale is still too much. Then I saw this week's update and my jaw hit the floor.
800 points... for a vanity pet... which has a minor (and mostly useless) in-game buff. Even doubling earned influence would not be worth 800 points.
When I told my wife (who has a serious and dangerous Super Pack habit) about the new item this week, she laughed for over a minute. She thought I was messing with her. I had to show her the announcement before she would believe it was serious.
On the bright side, I don't have to worry about stupid impulse buys this week and can continue to save my points for Staff Fighting and Beast Mastery.
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Werd...|
Originally Posted by BigBlackAfrica
On the bright side, I don't have to worry about stupid impulse buys this week and can continue to save my points for Staff Fighting and Beast Mastery.
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and yes that was butchered on purpose
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Exactly. Anyway, some of the programmers and developers I'm sure do care about the game, but I'd bet they aren't the ones in charge of pricing. Usually the ones in charge of pricing don't even know much about the product in my experience. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Stop deluding yourself about a for profit company "caring about us people", that is a TOTAL waste of time.
You are better off not buying the offer and letting them know why, but don't think you have some kind of personal relationship with them. |
Personally I never planned to buy this no matter the price point. I just think it is silly and have a hard time coming up with a superhero character that it'd make sense having a little green man following them around.
Let me think , hmm 800 points - NO!!
Cutsey cultural stereotypes expressed as outgroup reinterpretations of myth figures are still cultural stereotypes. We've got Celtic myth figures in the game already (heck, we've got Semitic ones now, too, for that matter...), much less cartoonishly portrayed.
I personally don't find it offensive, but I can understand that some folks might.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...