Discussion: Featured Items at the Paragon Market - 2/14/12
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-02-14 10:50 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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This is horse hockey, and Paragon Studios is already well-protected against some eight year old running up mummy and daddy's credit cards. I bought one set of the packs, got everything I wanted, and might not buy any until the next pack. Being financial secure as well as having a modicum of self control is, apparently, priceless.
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
the idea behind me being so adamantly against this pack is not just because it is so gambling esque' but because of all the potential problems and complications I see that can come from it. An expensive <dare I say> lawsuit brought up by a concerned parent, GROUP of parents, or disgruntled ex-employee<s?> would have the potential to wreak havoc on the budget for this game and it's current employees. I see this. Me. Maybe not every cheerleader in the squad. Just me. What would really be damaging about this is public opinion. if something of a lawsuit get on the news in any form that points fingers to this game for embracing a gambling mechanic that minors have access to... that's where the real damage is going to come from. Which is the bottom line why I'm so against this.
Even if the legal team has the legs to stand on, the rules to hide behind, the angles covered <I hope they do>... that won't change public opinion. In the end, that public opinion is what really matters. It's not something that's going to come out in the wash. Iv'e made my noise. Baiting me with questions pointing to tailored answers isn't going to change the way I feel about this. Not one bit. |
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It is not like you do not have the choice.|
Originally Posted by MadHobbit
well I for one am sorry they ever got into this kind of selling.they are giving (right or wrong) the impression that all they want to do is seperate us from our money in our wallets. limited time vanity items,over priced items,pandering to the "gambling" urge.
all designed to get us to in addition to a monthly fee, to reach for our credit cards and send money to them. now that we have the first animial travel power, how long before they flood the market with varations? panther travel power, wolf travel power, XXXXX travel power. each to get us to spend buy PP to purchase. |
Really, you do not need any of that stuff to play and enjoy the game.
I did not buy the Wolf Travel power, i was not interested in it. Some players were and they bought it.
I think SuperPacks are giving a big bang for my bucks so i bought many of them. I never felt compelled or forced to buy anything. Sure i like to flip cards and get random rewards but i would not pay real money if i felt it was not worth it ( to me ).
There really is nothing wrong with that system. The more money you spend, the more stuff you get. It is a universal model that pretty much every kind of stores in the world follows.
There will always have people who want stuff but do not have the money for it. Well, too bad for them. Stores ( CoH store or any other stores ) are no charity organizations. I can't buy the Ferrari and crying about it won't help. So i just forget it and move on or i try to earn enough money for it.
If CoH comes up with more stuff i want that i can afford, i am pretty sure that i will buy again. It is my choice.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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Math failure. Old booster packs: $10 (800 points). A 24 pack of these "cards" costs $18 (1,440 points). So about twice as much.|
Originally Posted by Congelateur
if we take the 24 pack, it s about the price of the old booster pack...
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I know... "math is hard".
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Originally Posted by Congelateur
we have in thse 24 pack:
1 complete costume set |
I know... "Statistics is hard".
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Originally Posted by Congelateur
if the costume was in tier 9 vip, it would have cost 3 points, so 3 subs or 3 * 1200 point... well 2 time more money.
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Originally Posted by Congelateur
NCS could sell it at 800 point in the market... but hey... all those things for 600 more points?
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At any rate, the established baseline for costume sets on the market is 400 Points.
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I'm very certain "the public" would laugh that off, as they did every other lawsuit that got on the news claiming MMOs "forced" people to become addicts to them. I think when people are dropping dead while grinding in them, and contracting hitmen to take out rivals, and getting married in them and divorced over them, and "the public" yawns, claiming that superpacks are gambling for minors has about as much chance of becoming "a thing" as an asteroid impact in Texas has of wiping out the servers, except asteroids actually exist. The legal foundation for this argument doesn't.
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
What would really be damaging about this is public opinion. if something of a lawsuit get on the news in any form that points fingers to this game for embracing a gambling mechanic that minors have access to... that's where the real damage is going to come from. Which is the bottom line why I'm so against this.
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The costume looks nice, but I, like many others, won't even give you my 2¢ for a random anything. I don't even like the consumables the game gives as loot, much less the ones you want me to spend money on ON TOP OF the subscription I've maintained (except for a week here or there to adjust billing days) for over seven years. My money is worth a set amount, not a random gamble. These kind of shenanigans are why I quickly lost interest in Magic the gathering, even though it was an otherwise fun game. It's also one of the things that really pushed me away from Star Wars Galaxies, when I was expected to apply additional real money to purchase a random chance to gain highly desirable in game stuff. I don't mind throwing a few extra bucks at something I want, even if it's just a costume piece/bundle I may only use on one character... But the idea that I'm gonna keep blowing purchased points on usually getting stuff that I don't want is just absurd.
Of course the thrifty and discretionary aren't really anyone's marketing demographic, are they?
Go ahead and chalk this up to a bad experiment, and I'll forgive it, but if this is the direction you want to push this game, I'll move on. I don't have any interest in online gambling.
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The thrifty and discretionary don't have to buy them. The game lets them play as premium players with full control over what they decide to spend their money on, without eliminating their ability to play the core game. An option that did not exist prior to City of Heroes Freedom.|
Originally Posted by Starhammer
Of course the thrifty and discretionary aren't really anyone's marketing demographic, are they?
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The thrifty, discretionary, and entitled are permanently and irrevocably out of luck.
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The company 'Wizards of the Coast' has sold Collectible Card Games (CCGs) to everyone (including minors) for 20 years now. The mechanic behind CoH's Super Packs is virtually (no pun intended) identical to the classic CCG concept. I played WotC's Magic the Gathering pretty seriously for years and in all that time I never heard of anyone suing WotC for "promoting gambling". Perhaps they have in fact been sued for that somewhere along the line, but even if they have the amount of "public opinion damage" they suffered was minimal because I've never heard about it. *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer
the idea behind me being so adamantly against this pack is not just because it is so gambling esque' but because of all the potential problems and complications I see that can come from it.
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Would have bought the costume, think it looks good. No interest in purchasing anything else in the packs. *Shrugs*
I also like the costume set, but not going through the hoops of Super Packs to get them. Nor do I support or like the concept of Super Packs. It is not a path I am willing to go down on, for many reasons already stated in this thread, it is a bad idea. It makes me question whether I want to continue being a VIP Subscriber.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Well let's put it this way: Wizards of the Coast has been a very successful gaming company for the last 20 years based on this generic "collectible card game" model. My simplistic guess is that if it worked for them it'll work out for Paragon Studios too.
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True but one thing with Wizards, at least with their first online version. If you collected a full set of virtual cards you could trade them in and Wizard would send you an actual full set. So there was a physical item you could get to the virtual one. BTW this included the "foil" cards so you could earn a rare all foil set.
Also Collecting and Building your deck was the game. The only way COX could be like this is if your powers were based on what "cards" you have, not your archtype or level.
In the short term I'm sure the packs look like a winner. But I don't see them as a long term money maker. The reason is there just isn't much to them. Once you have the outfit there's nothing that's worth the gamble.
AIO's can be earned in game, the power ups are drops in game, and most of the common stuff like the insperations are junk.
The packs need more to them.
Add character transfers, character slots, purple recipes (even if account bound), A-merits, Threads, E-merits, Incarnate rares. These choice items would be rare cards but would give reason to keep buying them.
Right now alignment swap costs 800 points. A transfer costs 800. A character slot the same. I wouldn't buy any one directly but if I got one from buying 10 packs at 80 I wouldn't feel ripped off. These are all virtual items. COX only looses out when we don't buy. They loose nothing if I buy X over Y.
I am inclined to agree short term these packs will have some appeal but long term that will fade.
I think it is an interesting way to offer variety, but needs to go back to the drawing board for some revisions IMO.
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Originally Posted by GPBunny
In the short term I'm sure the packs look like a winner. But I don't see them as a long term money maker. The reason is there just isn't much to them. Once you have the outfit there's nothing that's worth the gamble.
AIO's can be earned in game, the power ups are drops in game, and most of the common stuff like the insperations are junk. The packs need more to them. Add character transfers, character slots, purple recipes (even if account bound), A-merits, Threads, E-merits, Incarnate rares. These choice items would be rare cards but would give reason to keep buying them. Right now alignment swap costs 800 points. A transfer costs 800. A character slot the same. I wouldn't buy any one directly but if I got one from buying 10 packs at 80 I wouldn't feel ripped off. These are all virtual items. COX only looses out when we don't buy. They loose nothing if I buy X over Y. |
I beg to differ. Let's see more in detail what you get in these packs:
- Costume pieces ( the less useful thing to me because it has no gameplay value if none of my characters use them )
- Inspirations ( Very low value but not totally useless, i would not pay real money for these thought )
- Enhancement Boosters, Enhancement Unslotters ( this starts to look better, i really often use these since i have 45 characters and i tend to swap lot of stuff around. I never bought these as a stand alone product thought but as a side-prize, i like them )
- Windfall, Prestige and Patrol XP powers ( All useful stuff to me that i would not buy as a stand alone product but i am happy to get them in these packs )
- XP 1hour boost ( Good stuff again, nice side-gift i would not normally buy )
- The Archetype Enhancements and Catalysts ( Now you talk! Good stuff, high replay value, interesting procs. I might even pay real money just to buy these alone )
- MERITS , not hundreds, TOUSANDS of Merits points! ( And this really was the selling point for me )
In the end, the SuperPacks gave me 153x25 Merits ( 3825 Merits ). To me, that is priceless. I calculated how much Merits i can get per hour and how much time to get to 3825 and that represents LOT of time.
3825 Merits. That means 191 Rare recipe rolls or 191 TF completed before the Merit Vendor existed.
3825 Merits gained in 5 minutes for less than 60$. I only bought 3x24 Super PAcks so far.
Let's assume a TF duration is about 1 hour in the "best case" for a Reward of 20 Merits. Then i basically got 191 hours of playtime worth in 5 minutes.
Yes, Instagratification, that's what it is. But i am willing to pay for that when i feel it. That is my choice.
I do not feel robbed one second by the NCSoft. And the Merits are very Versatile. I can directly buy recipes i want ( Numina, Miracle, Kismet, whatever ) and use them or even sell them for millions of in-game money. Same goes for the Archetype Enh.
So there it is. My opinion is that these SuperPacks were GREAT value to me. I will probably buy more of them. The Wolf and Costume Options are what is the less important to me in these packs.
Edit: Now i also agree that Purple Recipes, A-Merits, Threads and other Incarnate stuff would be great prizes if they were inserted in random Super Packs. I would certainly buy such packs and try my luck at them. Great idea!
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
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Let's also keep in mind that while we don't have an official confirmation/announcement, it's pretty clear there's at least one other set of boosters planned at some point. So there is a "long term" plan to add "more" to them.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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Originally Posted by GPBunny
In the short term I'm sure the packs look like a winner. But I don't see them as a long term money maker. The reason is there just isn't much to them. Once you have the outfit there's nothing that's worth the gamble.
AIO's can be earned in game, the power ups are drops in game, and most of the common stuff like the insperations are junk. The packs need more to them. Add character transfers, character slots, purple recipes (even if account bound), A-merits, Threads, E-merits, Incarnate rares. These choice items would be rare cards but would give reason to keep buying them. Right now alignment swap costs 800 points. A transfer costs 800. A character slot the same. I wouldn't buy any one directly but if I got one from buying 10 packs at 80 I wouldn't feel ripped off. These are all virtual items. COX only looses out when we don't buy. They loose nothing if I buy X over Y. |
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
I am inclined to agree short term these packs will have some appeal but long term that will fade.
I think it is an interesting way to offer variety, but needs to go back to the drawing board for some revisions IMO. |
But who said that anything offered by the Paragon Market needs to be things that will be in high demand forever? Basically just about anything new that hits the Market will have a short period of high demand that will taper off as time goes on. Paragon Studios is not relying on any one single thing sold in the Market to be their main source of revenue (unlike WotC whose main business at first was the CCGs directly). In the long run the more things they offer for sale the more they will have a constant revenue stream from the Market in total.
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Well, I guess this summary pretty much brings this discussion to a stalemate. I am indeed out of luck. Oh well...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The thrifty and discretionary don't have to buy them. The game lets them play as premium players with full control over what they decide to spend their money on, without eliminating their ability to play the core game. An option that did not exist prior to City of Heroes Freedom.
The thrifty, discretionary, and entitled are permanently and irrevocably out of luck. |
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Originally Posted by Starhammer
The costume looks nice, but I, like many others, won't even give you my 2¢ for a random anything... I don't mind throwing a few extra bucks at something I want, even if it's just a costume piece/bundle I may only use on one character.
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Originally Posted by Mrwrk
Would have bought the costume, think it looks good.
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Originally Posted by Visthera
I also like the costume set, but not going through the hoops of Super Packs to get them.
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I am a 7 year vet and a VIP player. I have purchased this game multiple times with pre-orders of Villains and Going Rogue. I've purchased most of the purchaseables in the game.
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I will not buy a "grab bag" despite my ability to do so with my monthly points. This is insulting, and basically tells me that the crew assigned to create new content has now "jumped the shark."
Now available for purchase at the Paragon Super Store: Shark Jumps, for the low cost of your integrity + all available cash with in 10'.
/Meh.
Happy gaming!
-SunderX
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You understand that all those posts you quoted don't invalidate a single one of Arcanaville's points, yes? In fact, in a way, they reinforce them?|
Originally Posted by Wil
Well, I guess this summary pretty much brings this discussion to a stalemate. I am indeed out of luck. Oh well...
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Also, you should comb the thread for all the people who posted about how they did buy the packs and do have the costume set, too. Just, you know, for fun. Here, I'll give you an easy one to get started:
I have the full costume set. I got the final item for it in my 13th pack, then I opened the other nine packs of the 24 I'd bought just as eagerly. Then I bought five more. I don't care about the wolf at all, and might actually be a little disappointed if I get it (that Very Rare could have been a catalyst instead!). But with each pack costing less than a Coke, I'll be buying more of them anyway, because even with no costume items left to find, what I get in each pack is worth at least a dollar to me.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
I don't see a problem with the "Super Pack." I just bought it and got 10 XP Boosters, 10 Windfalls, 5 Revivals, 49 '25 Reward Merits = 1225 Reward Merits, 3 Patrol XP bonus, and some costume pieces. If I would have bought these individualy, it would have costed over 3000 Paragon Points, compared to the 1440 Paragon Points I just spent. I think It's well worth it.
While everyone else complains, I'll enjoy the savings!!!!
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Zwil said it. He has explicitly stated several times that the whole point of the gamble packs was to be (an attempt at generating) a sustainable revenue stream.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I don't disagree that the future Super Packs sets could have more types of awards associated with them.
But who said that anything offered by the Paragon Market needs to be things that will be in high demand forever? |
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I'm quoting this comment, but I'm really replying to all the people with the same sentiment.|
Originally Posted by SunderX
I will not buy a "grab bag" despite my ability to do so with my monthly points. This is insulting, and basically tells me that the crew assigned to create new content has now "jumped the shark."
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If you haven't purchased a 24 pack of Super Packs, then you're really missing out. As a VIP who had some points stocked up, I bought two 24 Packs. I averaged 1200 Reward Merits from each, got a total of 27 ATOs, got the full costume set off the first bundle, and have impressive amounts of XP Boosters, and other temp powers.
What ATOs I didn't want, I sold to buy the ones I did and came out with more Inf for it.
Honestly, the rewards were well worth the purchase.They're a good deal, and nothing near the gamble people make them out to be. Save up your points if you're a VIP, or do an occasional point purchase to get a 24 pack. You'll be doing yourself a favor.
@Rylas
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So, no real reason for them to not offer the costume sets separately, then?
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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
You understand that all those posts you quoted don't invalidate a single one of Arcanaville's points, yes? In fact, in a way, they reinforce them?
Also, you should comb the thread for all the people who posted about how they did buy the packs and do have the costume set, too. Just, you know, for fun. Here, I'll give you an easy one to get started: I have the full costume set. I got the final item for it in my 13th pack, then I opened the other nine packs of the 24 I'd bought just as eagerly. Then I bought five more. I don't care about the wolf at all, and might actually be a little disappointed if I get it (that Very Rare could have been a catalyst instead!). But with each pack costing less than a Coke, I'll be buying more of them anyway, because even with no costume items left to find, what I get in each pack is worth at least a dollar to me. |
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
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Even better: Toss a few MORE exclusive costume sets in there so I can look forward to finding those in my packs.
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Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
So, no real reason for them to not offer the costume sets separately, then?
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FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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As you've made it clear you're happy buying the Super Packs regardless of exclusive content, I suppose that the only reason you'd want something exclusive to them is to... I dunno, help me out here. Spell it out for me, if you would:|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
Even better: Toss a few MORE exclusive costume sets in there so I can look forward to finding those in my packs.
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1) I like super Packs regardless of exclusive content,
2) I want Super Packs to have exclusive content,
3) This will only effect other people, not me, and this is good, because...(?)
I ask because I'm having trouble coming up with a reason that doesn't make you sound terribly immature, and I don't want to make that assumption without having your reasons first.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
the idea behind me being so adamantly against this pack is not just because it is so gambling esque' but because of all the potential problems and complications I see that can come from it. An expensive <dare I say> lawsuit brought up by a concerned parent, GROUP of parents, or disgruntled ex-employee<s?> would have the potential to wreak havoc on the budget for this game and it's current employees. I see this. Me. Maybe not every cheerleader in the squad. Just me. What would really be damaging about this is public opinion. if something of a lawsuit get on the news in any form that points fingers to this game for embracing a gambling mechanic that minors have access to... that's where the real damage is going to come from. Which is the bottom line why I'm so against this.
Even if the legal team has the legs to stand on, the rules to hide behind, the angles covered <I hope they do>... that won't change public opinion.
In the end, that public opinion is what really matters.
It's not something that's going to come out in the wash.
Iv'e made my noise. Baiting me with questions pointing to tailored answers isn't going to change the way I feel about this. Not one bit.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.