The Walking Dead returns...


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Originally Posted by Texarkana View Post
Shane adapted to the new world quickly. Dale said something to the effect of "You're perfect for this world" and I think that was an unfair characterization, especially considering how Shane was portrayed as keeping the group together. When Andrea claimed, "you're decisions are mostly good, it's just how you go about it that is problematic" was far more appropriate. Something that was bothersome was how quickly everyone latched onto the "Shane killed Otis" theory, which is really all it was and it felt very mechanical. Until Daryl's comment that Shane came back with Otis' gun, there really wasn't any reason to give credence to that line of thinking. As an audience, we knew more, but the characters in the story really didn't. Shane does have flaws, like his obsession with Lori, but as a leader, his judgement give the circumstances is pretty sound.

Rick somehow took over leadership of the group as soon as he arrived and that was annoying, especially given the wishy-washiness he presented. I'm assuming Shane must have been a deputy to Rick and that structure just fell into place, with everyone falling into line behind Shane's lead. The problem is that Rick got people killed. He's wishywashy, slow to decide, and making decisions for the group based on what he feels is right for his family. Ultimately, Rick does the things that Shane would do, alebit with more deliberation.
I made the point some time ago that I tend to see Rick and Shane sort of like two halves of what would probably be one perfect leader if you were able to merge their basic qualities together into one person. Rick has the compassion and "big picture" thinking they need, but it tends to cause him to be too cautious and hesitant in his actions. Shane on the other hand has the more tactical and brutally practical point of view but he tends to be impulsive and "undiplomatic" enough to make others in the group feel uneasy about him.

There was the classic Star Trek episode The Enemy Within which sums up my idea on this. In that episode a transporter accident splits Captain Kirk into two people, one with Kirk's "positive" qualities and the other with Kirk's "negative" qualities. Now I'm not suggesting that The Walking Dead is ever going to mess around with transporters. But still it's interesting to think that the makers of this show are covering the same kinds of leadership conflicts between Rick and Shane that the Star Trek episode covered with the two versions of Kirk coming to grips with each other.

I guess the ultimate question is going to come down to whether or not the TV show is ever going resolve Rick and Shane's basic conflict or just end up killing one or both of them.


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Originally Posted by Forefinger_ View Post
Other than being in pain/shock, is being disemboweled fatal? I've heard of people being stabbed or wounded in the abdomen and their intestines coming out and surviving. I guess the doc must have seen more ripped stuff inside Dale than just the skin and knew it was beyond his capability to fix.
AFAIK, the worst culprit is infection. More people die from infected wounds than the actual trauma itself. In our modem world, with easy access to doctors and medical supplies, most people would live in that situation. However, they have limited access to both, so any wounds can become very bad. Honestly, I'm kinda surprised that T-Dog lived after cutting himself so badly; that much blood coming out had to have been an artery.

I'm suspecting that Herschel might have been a combat medic/corpsmen in Vietnam. As such, he would have received some combat triage training as well as basic gun/rifle training. A combat medic would be able to do a quick diagnosis and determine who would be able to make it back to a mobile hospital for treatment from experts. These medics would receive an advanced first aid course to enable them to try and either stabilize or address a wound. Using said training, Herschel could have easily determined that Carl was saveable but Dale was not.


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Originally Posted by Frost Warden View Post
AFAIK, the worst culprit is infection. More people die from infected wounds than the actual trauma itself. In our modem world, with easy access to doctors and medical supplies, most people would live in that situation. However, they have limited access to both, so any wounds can become very bad. Honestly, I'm kinda surprised that T-Dog lived after cutting himself so badly; that much blood coming out had to have been an artery.
It was hard to see in the darkness but I'm guessing Dale was ripped open pretty badly. Even Hershel said, when Rick wanted to move him back to the house, that "he wouldn't survive being carried back". I'm guessing Dale probably would've died in a few minutes anyway even if Daryl hadn't put him out of his misery.

As for T-Dog I think he would've died from infection if it wasn't for a combination of Hershel dressing the wound and the drugs that Daryl had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost Warden View Post
I'm suspecting that Herschel might have been a combat medic/corpsmen in Vietnam. As such, he would have received some combat triage training as well as basic gun/rifle training. A combat medic would be able to do a quick diagnosis and determine who would be able to make it back to a mobile hospital for treatment from experts. These medics would receive an advanced first aid course to enable them to try and either stabilize or address a wound. Using said training, Herschel could have easily determined that Carl was saveable but Dale was not.
Yeah Hershel would probably be the perfect age to be a Vietnam War vet. The Korean War would've been a little too far back to be quite as plausible. Hopefully they'll eventually reveal more of Hershel's "mysterious" past before the end of the season.


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Posted

Dale is dead, Dale is dead, whoopy kyay, Dale is dead!

Bit disappointing that Rick went from modern day Clint Eastwood in the bar and now all of a sudden couldn't put out Randall or at least be the one to put Dale out of his misery. If Hershel had any sense, he'd know operating on Dale would be futile for the simple fact he'd just turn, regardless of the outcome. Why risk infecting himself, too?

As for Randall, thought the episode dragging on to decide his fate was a bit pointless. If you tied me up, beat me and showed all intentions to kill me, if I got loose, I'd probably head straight back to round up the group. As others said, he would have spilled his guts without requiring torture if he was truly innocent.

The deer in the first season was shot with an arrow by Darell. You can see it sticking out. He'd been tracking it but the zombie found it first. Rather curious how a single zombie in an open field tackled a cow. I think Herschel said it broke through a fence but I could be wrong. Maybe it sustained some injury.


 

Posted

Complete and utter spoils have been posted for the next episode. Come from the same accurate source in the past.

One word.

Delightful

Oh, then there's this.


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Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaamn


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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaamn
I knew it was coming. I discussed it with some of my friends. I just really didn't want to ruin it for everyone else. Viruses are tricky fellows.


 

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Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
I knew it was coming. I discussed it with some of my friends. I just really didn't want to ruin it for everyone else. Viruses are tricky fellows.
I knew it too, but they threw a lot more than that revelation in there. Shane gets killed Rick AND Carl! And then throw a full scale zombie invasion in there for the finale!


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Mental_Giant View Post
I knew it too, but they threw a lot more than that revelation in there. Shane gets killed Rick AND Carl! And then throw a full scale zombie invasion in there for the finale!
I just kept laughing every time they berried someone who had died and didn't take proper precautions to keep them turning.

P.S. I think I know why the walkers are herding on the roads. When they died, there were on route somewhere. When they turned they continued the route, but back and forth over and over again. The herding zombies are the ones who owned the cars.


 

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Holy O.O wow.

I had an inkling of what Jenners whispered to Rick, now I know for sure. Makes me wonder how Lori's baby will come out.


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In the words of George Takei....link


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Posted

And next week I imagine they all will be forced to abandon the farm along with most of their supplies and drive right into laps of Randell's crew.

And where are the damn lookouts. And smart move Shane, wander around with Rick and end up a stone's throw away from the farm house.


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Posted

What was he purpose of Shane removing Randell's blindfold and gag just to have him walk ten more steps then kill him, unless Shane just wasn't sure what he was about to do.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Heat101 View Post
What was he purpose of Shane removing Randell's blindfold and gag just to have him walk ten more steps then kill him, unless Shane just wasn't sure what he was about to do.
So that Randall was an easier kill that wouldn't fight back? Surprise and all.



 

Posted

He found out the last known location of the gang. Assuming he had killed Rick, he'd probably take control of the group and go after them. Randall also solidified his place not as an unwilling participant of the gang but happy to be a part of it with his last words.


 

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Also, Carl is one helluva good shot.

As for abandoning the farm...ya. That's why you always keep an emergency stash of supplies in your bug-out vehicle.



 

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Originally Posted by 2short2care View Post
Token
Not cool.


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Posted

I sooo much prefer the comic version of Shane's death better- this one felt like a .... letdown....




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Posted

Solid episode, with a powerful final 10 minutes.

What on earth did Lori think she was doing, going to talk to Shane like that? That was guaranteed to push him over the edge.

Seems that Dale is out so Herschel can take over as the conscience of the group.

T-Dog had more lines this week than the last... what six episodes?

Daryl is coming off more and more like the genius in the group. (Though why he couldn't find anything to track when it was daylight and then could track at night bugged me...)

It was nice to see Shane struggling with his decisions at the end. He couldn't make his mind up to take Randall, then couldn't decide what to do with him, then had to work up the nerve to come out of the woods, then took forever to get around to confronting Rick, and even then couldn't put his friend down. The aching struggle was pretty evident, yet all on the direct march to his tragic end. As an actor, that had to be fun role for these 18 episodes.

Shane's end was nicely staged. But, yeah, should have been Carl.
But when I was talking about it with my wife afterwards (who hasn't read any of it) she pointed out that on TV they may have had some issues with a child-as-killer... so I can accept the change from that standpoint. And Carl jumping in to save his Dad was a nice touch.


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Originally Posted by Benchpresser View Post
I sooo much prefer the comic version of Shane's death better- this one felt like a .... letdown....
Well that turned out to be an interesting twist compared to the comic...

*** Comicbook spoilers ahead ***

In the comic there was a similar confrontation between Rick and Shane out in the woods that lead to Carl finding them fighting and having Carl shoot Shane. But the critical difference in the comic is that Carl kills Shane while he was still alive, as a sort of pseudo self-defense murder to protect Rick. The group ends up burying Shane and it wasn't until later that Rick comes back, unburies Shane, and kills him the second time as a zombie. In effect the TV show reversed the order that Rick and Carl killed Shane.

I figure they decided to do it that way because it'd be less questionable to have Carl "kill" Shane as a zombie instead of the way he did it in the comic. Having a little boy be responsible for a questionable murder of a live person would probably be relatively hard to get away with on TV like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chyll View Post
T-Dog had more lines this week than the last... what six episodes?
T-Dog also got two funny "Easter Eggs" from the comicbook as well. The first was his use of a hammer against one of the zombies - that was one of Tyreese's favorite zombie-killing weapons. The other was his line of dialogue just as he was opening the barn they were keeping Randall in where he joked about "the Governor" granting a reprieve.


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Posted

The only real problem I have with the way the TV show has "revealed" the idea that people who die under any circumstances can come back as zombies is that there's almost no way that could have been a mystery to any of the characters. How is it that the group is just now figuring that out?

Back during the first critical weeks when most of the world was falling apart it should have been obvious to practically any of the last survivors that at least SOME of the people who were becoming zombies were becoming zombies without having been attacked by another zombie. Surely there were people killing each other during the panic and collaspe of law and order. Heck there must have even been at least a few people who died of natural causes like heart attacks who just instantly sat back up as zombies. It simply seems impossible to believe that none of the characters of this show were aware that zombies could just "happen" like that.

The comic book handled this critical bit of knowledge in a more up-front way. If you've read the comics you knew pretty much from the very beginning that EVERYONE was fated to wake up as a zombie regardless. They may have not have known -why- it was happening, but it was a preestablished fact that it -would- happen.

I realize the makers of the TV show decided to make this aspect of zombies be something of a mystery to the audience. But it simply doesn't make any sense that this would have been a mystery to the characters as well. I mean Rick had an excuse being in a coma for several weeks - surely the rest of them saw what happened to the rest of the world.


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Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
The other was his line of dialogue just as he was opening the barn they were keeping Randall in where he joked about "the Governor" granting a reprieve.
I can't believe I didn't notice that... and I -watched- the sneak peek from last week with that very scene. Good catch!


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Posted

I just have to say Laurie is the worst mother on TV. One would think that in a world infested with Zombies she'd keep better track of her son. Every time we turn around Carl is getting into something he shouldn't be, and she wants to have another child... geez!


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
The comic book handled this critical bit of knowledge in a more up-front way. If you've read the comics you knew pretty much from the very beginning that EVERYONE was fated to wake up as a zombie regardless. They may have not have known -why- it was happening, but it was a preestablished fact that it -would- happen.
OK, it's been awhile since I read the earlier books, but didn't they find this out after the farm? I don't see to recall them coming across this issue until, well....can't say too much without a potential spoiler. Pretty sure Tyreese's daughter was the first one they encountered, but I could totally be misremembering it. (Unfortunately, senility is creeping in, so it could totally be me. )

Also, good catch on the "Governor" quote. I had to go back and hear it again to catch that.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack View Post
I just have to say Laurie is the worst mother on TV. One would think that in a world infested with Zombies she'd keep better track of her son. Every time we turn around Carl is getting into something he shouldn't be, and she wants to have another child... geez!
Yeah that seems to be true but at the same time what is she supposed to do put a leash on him, I say it's more his fault then his mothers, everyone is telling him to stay close and not wander off, but he does anyway knowing how the world is now how dangerous it is, maybe she should just put a leash on him, but then we would have to hear people complaining about how inhumane that is and what not. How old is he supposed to be exactly 10? Hey if the leash thing doesn't work out because he can get out of it, maybe they should just break his legs, seriously I don't blame Lori for that idiot Carl wandering off every time despite everyone telling him to stay close, he is an idiot.


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