The Walking Dead returns...
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2012-01-25 18:27 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Exactly. Since I lived in the Carolinas, if I were wanting a less populated road that went a long way in both directions, I'd take Route 1 for travel from Georgia to Virginia. Very small rural cities/towns in that area, with no major cities there. Otherwise, you'd have to take small country roads, which can be confusing if you are not from that area.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I-95 might be Zombie Migration Path heaven, though. It's a path through almost every major Atlantic seaboard town. Miami, Jacksonville, Savanna, DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC, Hartford (sorta), Providence and Boston. It skips Atlanta and cities in the Carolinas, but it's still a likely horrible place to be. Lots of crashes and graveyards on the roads, and wandering zombies would be everywhere along the route. Basically, it's the exact type of area you'd want to stay 100 miles away from in a zombie apocalypse.
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And since I failed to mention it earlier, Hellz yeah! Michonne! I'm glad that she was not cut from the TV show.
I find your lack of signature disturbing.
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Well for what it's worth I thought they were already east and/or south of Atlanta. The land we've seen around Hershel's farm is pretty flat - the land north and west of Atlanta tends to be much more hilly. *shrugs*|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I-95 might be Zombie Migration Path heaven, though. It's a path through almost every major Atlantic seaboard town. Miami, Jacksonville, Savanna, DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC, Hartford (sorta), Providence and Boston. It skips Atlanta and cities in the Carolinas, but it's still a likely horrible place to be. Lots of crashes and graveyards on the roads, and wandering zombies would be everywhere along the route. Basically, it's the exact type of area you'd want to stay 100 miles away from in a zombie apocalypse.
It's one of the reasons I had to laugh at one of the characters describing the western states as "they're called fly-over states for a reason." Yes, yes they are. Wide open spaces and low population numbers for their size. Basically, just where you want to be when you're trying to avoid hordes of walking undead. Heading east (needing to go near/around/through Atlanta) does indeed seem like a stupid idea. |
You do make valid points that heading east would mean going towards more populated areas. But would we know for sure that zombies would actually care that I-95 is a major human roadway? As we've seen it looks like herds of zombies are just roaming anywhere regardless if it's on major highways or not.
Bottomline if you wanted to have a chance to find LIVE people then your chances are improved if you go where there were more people to begin with. Sure heading to Nebraska might be fine if you know for sure that there's no hope of finding any organized enclaves of live people. But as people on this thread have pointed out these characters supposedly have no idea if there's any large groups of live people left or not. All things being equal I'd probably want to know if there was any civilization left, and lord knows you're not going to find that in Nebraska regardless of a ZA or not.
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Another option is that they are two groups, and Merle could be in the one that is/was in Randall's...|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Still I agree that it seems likely that Merle will be involved in the Governor's crew in some form or fashion.
He'd be a perfect fit to fall into that group. I guess that leaves one vaguely lingering question: Was Randall's group related to the Governor or was that a completely separate group? I suppose the writers could have that go either way depending on if it's important or not. |
Or, he is comes in through another route (though I suspect this is less likely)...
It will be fun to see.
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Still didn't answer the question about the helicopter or if the helicopter is intentionally herding zombies in a particular direction. Zombie hoards as a siege weapon? We'll pull them toward our enemies and let them deal with them?
At least it explained why there was a hundred head of zombies on the north 40.
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In the first episode, didn't Frank see the helicopter while he was in Atlanta? I think this was supposed to be the same one. Basically, it was the first human-sound the zombies had heard in a while, so they followed it in search of brains. It just took the slow shamblers a while to reach wherever the whole crew was.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Still didn't answer the question about the helicopter or if the helicopter is intentionally herding zombies in a particular direction. Zombie hoards as a siege weapon? We'll pull them toward our enemies and let them deal with them?
At least it explained why there was a hundred head of zombies on the north 40. |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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As fun as it is to think about it seems fairly unlikely that the helicopter was intentionally trying to lure zombies towards anything in particular. If the people in the helicopter specifically wanted to "drive" a herd of zombies there'd probably be a more direct way to do it than to fly a single helicopter hundreds of feet above Atlanta. Besides you have to think it's only been a few months since the ZA happened - what "army of enemies" would there be left that an organized force flying a helicopter would want to stampede a herd of zombies against? |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Still didn't answer the question about the helicopter or if the helicopter is intentionally herding zombies in a particular direction. Zombie hoards as a siege weapon? We'll pull them toward our enemies and let them deal with them?
At least it explained why there was a hundred head of zombies on the north 40. |
I just took it as a sign that the zombies are at least "smart" enough (if that's the right word) to understand that the sound/motion of the helicopter would probably lead them towards something that might be worth eating in the direction that the helicopter is moving. Basically I think it was just a bad coincidence that the zombies were "stampeded" towards Hershel's farm.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
In the first episode, didn't Frank see the helicopter while he was in Atlanta? I think this was supposed to be the same one. Basically, it was the first human-sound the zombies had heard in a while, so they followed it in search of brains. It just took the slow shamblers a while to reach wherever the whole crew was.
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Yes, Rick saw it but nobody at the camp believed him.
It also bothers me that throughout this season Lori kept tweaking Shane and then Rick and then Shane, rinse/repeat as if she wanted one of them to resolve the situation on a permanent basis. Honestly don't regret the results.
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The helicopter could have been a news crew taking footage of Atlanta or something.
*** POTENTIAL SPOILER ***
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IIRC, it was a news helicopter in the comic book that acted as a catalyst in the confrontation between Rick's group and the Governor's group.
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*** END SPOILER ***
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Yes this is the most obvious explaination based directly from the comic book. Problem is why have we seen helicopter(s) on the TV show twice now?|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
The helicopter could have been a news crew taking footage of Atlanta or something.
*** POTENTIAL SPOILER *** . . . . . . . IIRC, it was a news helicopter in the comic book that acted as a catalyst in the confrontation between Rick's group and the Governor's group. . . . . . . . . *** END SPOILER *** |
If you'll remember the only reason the news helicopter took off from Atlanta in the comic was that they were trying to make a break for somewhere else before it crashed. This sort of implies it was a one-way trip that went horribly wrong. On the other hand we've now seen the TV helicopter twice now and both times it looked very much like a classic cliche 'black' government type helicopter, not a civilian one.
Sure it's always possible that this helicopter (or helicopters) will serve the same purpose the news helicopter did in the comic (which was to get Rick and company involved with the Governor) but then again it's always possible that the TV show is going to take this in another direction.
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Yeah, I meant that Rick saw it. Don't know where I got Frank from. Guess it was just a brainfart there. Sorry.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I-95 might be Zombie Migration Path heaven, though. It's a path through almost every major Atlantic seaboard town. Miami, Jacksonville, Savanna, DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC, Hartford (sorta), Providence and Boston. It skips Atlanta and cities in the Carolinas, but it's still a likely horrible place to be. Lots of crashes and graveyards on the roads, and wandering zombies would be everywhere along the route. Basically, it's the exact type of area you'd want to stay 100 miles away from in a zombie apocalypse.
It's one of the reasons I had to laugh at one of the characters describing the western states as "they're called fly-over states for a reason." Yes, yes they are. Wide open spaces and low population numbers for their size. Basically, just where you want to be when you're trying to avoid hordes of walking undead. Heading east (needing to go near/around/through Atlanta) does indeed seem like a stupid idea. |
Yup that's my thinking.
They would be risking a chance to get to the coast hoping they find a boat to go where? Who is going to sail it? And once they reach the coast it's a dead end if they can't sail away.
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Didn't know this until I checked into it, but there is a Nuclear Regulatory Commission based in Atlanta, for inspection teams for any plants in the Southeast. As this would be a government facility, I would expect them to have access to government vehicles and the like. Also, in the greater Atlanta area are 3 military bases: Fort Gillem, Fort McPherson, and NAS Atlanta (Navy). |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes this is the most obvious explaination based directly from the comic book. Problem is why have we seen helicopter(s) on the TV show twice now?
If you'll remember the only reason the news helicopter took off from Atlanta in the comic was that they were trying to make a break for somewhere else before it crashed. This sort of implies it was a one-way trip that went horribly wrong. On the other hand we've now seen the TV helicopter twice now and both times it looked very much like a classic cliche 'black' government type helicopter, not a civilian one. Sure it's always possible that this helicopter (or helicopters) will serve the same purpose the news helicopter did in the comic (which was to get Rick and company involved with the Governor) but then again it's always possible that the TV show is going to take this in another direction. |
By the way, according to Google maps, Fort Benning, which is near Columbus, Georgia, is only about 110 miles away from Atlanta.
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I think she liked the idea of having two men fighting over her. I mean here they are in the middle of a ZA with very few men, let alone Alpha type men and she has two of them.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Yes, Rick saw it but nobody at the camp believed him.
It also bothers me that throughout this season Lori kept tweaking Shane and then Rick and then Shane, rinse/repeat as if she wanted one of them to resolve the situation on a permanent basis. Honestly don't regret the results. |
Her reaction to Rick killing Shane makes me wonder if they had something going on beforehand? Rick was in a coma for about a month before he woke up which means not a lot of time passed between the outbreak, him waking up and joining up with the others.
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Who said anything about getting a boat to anywhere?|
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
Yup that's my thinking.
They would be risking a chance to get to the coast hoping they find a boat to go where? Who is going to sail it? And once they reach the coast it's a dead end if they can't sail away. |
Obviously we don't exactly know for sure what T-Dog was thinking about other than "going east" but as we were talking about earlier once you reach the Atlantic coast it's much easier to travel north or south from there. I-95 would give them relatively easy access to any destination from Key West up to Maine.
And for what it's worth I still don't buy the "I-95 would be too dangerous" argument. We've already seen that herds of zombies seem to be -everywhere- already. How do we know for certain that any location is any more dangerous than anywhere else? And for all they know there are cities on the coast that are still intact and/or zombie-free. *shrugs*
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Along the I95 you have major cities they'd have to go through and it seems these herds favor roads for whatever reason. Then you have the potential blockage of roadways. Ever been through rush hour in the DC metro area? NJ/NY? Take the rush hour traffic of people that have to go to work and add in thousands of more vehicles as people tried to escape. I can imagine the highway being a parking lot and T-Dog doesn't strike me as a person that would have a contingency plan with alternate routes. Also in post apocalyptic situations major highways are a breeding ground for scavengers, cannibals and the other dredges of society that may have survived.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Who said anything about getting a boat to anywhere?
Obviously we don't exactly know for sure what T-Dog was thinking about other than "going east" but as we were talking about earlier once you reach the Atlantic coast it's much easier to travel north or south from there. I-95 would give them relatively easy access to any destination from Key West up to Maine. And for what it's worth I still don't buy the "I-95 would be too dangerous" argument. We've already seen that herds of zombies seem to be -everywhere- already. How do we know for certain that any location is any more dangerous than anywhere else? And for all they know there are cities on the coast that are still intact and/or zombie-free. *shrugs* |
Not to mention the high populations of cities the I95 connects, Miami, Jacksonville, Savannah, Richmond, DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Newark, Providence, and as if living Red Sox fans weren't bad enough... Boston.
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Let's be be clear about it: At least T-Dog had a "plan". I'm not necessarily saying his plan was the best possible one, but when pretty much every other character on the show was mindlessly panicing after they had to run from Hershel's farm I have to give T-Dog at least a few points for being a little more level-headed than most of the others. |
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
Along the I95 you have major cities they'd have to go through and it seems these herds favor roads for whatever reason. Then you have the potential blockage of roadways. Ever been through rush hour in the DC metro area? NJ/NY? Take the rush hour traffic of people that have to go to work and add in thousands of more vehicles as people tried to escape. I can imagine the highway being a parking lot and T-Dog doesn't strike me as a person that would have a contingency plan with alternate routes. Also in post apocalyptic situations major highways are a breeding ground for scavengers, cannibals and the other dredges of society that may have survived.
Not to mention the high populations of cities the I95 connects, Miami, Jacksonville, Savannah, Richmond, DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, Newark, Providence, and as if living Red Sox fans weren't bad enough... Boston. |
To get back to the "post apocalyptic situation" at hand I'll again point out that no one on this show knows ANYTHING about what's going on ANYWHERE beyond the immediate Atlanta area. Sure Jenner at the CDC painted a pretty bad picture but even he had lost contact with the rest of the world. He had no real idea if there were pockets of survivors or not.
I suppose it boils down to what would make sense: if you want to try to find other LIVING survivors in a ZA then your best best is to go where the most people are, which again would be much more easily accessible via I-95. On the other hand if Rick and company decide to avoid any possible contact with actual survivors friendly or not then I guess it'd make more sense to stay away from populated areas.
We already know there are in fact -plenty- of living survivors. Between the nursing home they found in Atlanta and Randall's group there appear to be pockets of non-zombie people all over the place. The chances of finding any remnants of a functioning government (who may be the ones flying the black helicopters we've seen) increases if they head toward HEAVILY POPULATED areas.
Ultimately we all know Rick's group is going to get bogged down with the Prison next season. I'm just saying that T-Dog's plan, while probably not perfect, was also far from being completely ridiculous either. *shrugs*
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Are we forgetting about the helicopter? The Zombies that were in whatever city heard the helicopter and shambled off after it....it was the same herd that came to the farmhouse....
Back to the helicopter....it did appear to be military in nature and thus it seems as though there is some form of government left.....
As for the "big secret" from season one that Jenner told Rick....They are all infected with whatever causes people to "reanimate" after they are killed and not have their heads (brains) damaged in some way.... I really didn't buy into the whole good vs evil in regards to who would and wouldn't reanimate anyhow.....now we know, it doesn't matter....
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Let's be be clear about it: At least T-Dog had a "plan". I'm not necessarily saying his plan was the best possible one, but when pretty much every other character on the show was mindlessly panicing after they had to run from Hershel's farm I have to give T-Dog at least a few points for being a little more level-headed than most of the others.
To get back to the "post apocalyptic situation" at hand I'll again point out that no one on this show knows ANYTHING about what's going on ANYWHERE beyond the immediate Atlanta area. Sure Jenner at the CDC painted a pretty bad picture but even he had lost contact with the rest of the world. He had no real idea if there were pockets of survivors or not. I suppose it boils down to what would make sense: if you want to try to find other LIVING survivors in a ZA then your best best is to go where the most people are, which again would be much more easily accessible via I-95. On the other hand if Rick and company decide to avoid any possible contact with actual survivors friendly or not then I guess it'd make more sense to stay away from populated areas. We already know there are in fact -plenty- of living survivors. Between the nursing home they found in Atlanta and Randall's group there appear to be pockets of non-zombie people all over the place. The chances of finding any remnants of a functioning government (who may be the ones flying the black helicopters we've seen) increases if they head toward HEAVILY POPULATED areas. Ultimately we all know Rick's group is going to get bogged down with the Prison next season. I'm just saying that T-Dog's plan, while probably not perfect, was also far from being completely ridiculous either. *shrugs* |
Ummm....your forgetting the 2 guys in the bar.....didn't the one say he was from the Philadelphia area? He said that it was bad all the way down to Atlanta.....
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum - Nick Cave
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Yet they survived to make it to that bar didn't they? |
Originally Posted by Sevenpenny
Ummm....your forgetting the 2 guys in the bar.....didn't the one say he was from the Philadelphia area? He said that it was bad all the way down to Atlanta.....
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Even if we can believe anything Mr. Philadelphia said and everything north of Atlanta is bad there's nothing stopping the group from making it to I-95 and heading south...
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But if you take the little snippets of information that we do know:|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yet they survived to make it to that bar didn't they?
Even if we can believe anything Mr. Philadelphia said and everything north of Atlanta is bad there's nothing stopping the group from making it to I-95 and heading south... |
1) People from Philly saying that everything is pretty bad from there down to Atlanta
2) Jenner saying that the whole world is infected, and that most everything is gone
3) There are apparently large hordes of undead roaming the area, and we've seen them both on the highways and off, but even we know that the side roads are much more clear.
4) At the very least Atlanta and Fort Benning are overrun
5) An unsecured location is obviously not a good place to hole up.
Knowing just those 5 things would make me think to find someplace secure, not some nebulous "let's head east" plan. Granted, he was one of the only people with a plan, but it was a simple, pretty dumb plan.
But, since we do know where the show is going, it's a pretty moot point. I just don't think that heading towards I-95, given what little they know, is a great idea, despite the benefits that it might offer. Especially since they know they're low on ammo.
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I'll toss my two cents in with those who think heading toward a major highway is a bad idea. You don't need much to permanently make a highway impassable. I'm actually surprised that the highway from Atlanta (seen in the 1st season) didn't use at least some of the inbound lanes as outbound lanes.
In a ZA you want to go somewhere that doesn't have a high population density. So stay out of the major cities and even the nearby suburbs. I would head to Texas myself, plenty of open land, plenty of guns. It has it's own power grid, sources of gasoline and plenty of red meat.
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Here's a thought...it was the same copter that both Rick and the little group of walkers saw.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
Yes this is the most obvious explaination based directly from the comic book. Problem is why have we seen helicopter(s) on the TV show twice now?
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The zombies would need some time to walk all that way to the farm. That little group (cuz there were only like 4 or so to start, iirc) saw it, started heading out in the direction it went, and chain swarmed with every deader along the way. They just started walking and kept at it even after the copter was out of sight/hearing. Other zombies noticed them walking and joined up. Had Carl not shot, that herd would've passed on by the farm, possibly.
The copter event was basically a callback to the time that Rick saw it, but simply shown from a different location in Atlanta.
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Yeah, that's what I was trying to get across. So we haven't seen TWO helicopters, just the same one twice. I think the show tried to display this with how long it took them to get there and find more dead people to walk with, but didn't do a very good job of it. Would have been better to have shown Rick watching the helicopter and then showing the dead people seeing it and their walk.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
Here's a thought...it was the same copter that both Rick and the little group of walkers saw.
The zombies would need some time to walk all that way to the farm. That little group (cuz there were only like 4 or so to start, iirc) saw it, started heading out in the direction it went, and chain swarmed with every deader along the way. They just started walking and kept at it even after the copter was out of sight/hearing. Other zombies noticed them walking and joined up. Had Carl not shot, that herd would've passed on by the farm, possibly. The copter event was basically a callback to the time that Rick saw it, but simply shown from a different location in Atlanta. |
The Talking Dead show did mention that the writers have a set of principles for how the zombies work, and I think that is part of it. The zombies basically follow the last sort of human sound they hear, or follow other undead if they seem like they have a goal.
I am hoping that they do find some other big group, though, as the current characters are getting a bit old. It's the same sort of problem that Lost had. People get bored watching the same 6 people interact all the time. Sometimes, some fresh blood is needed, and killing off people who haven't really even had a line doesn't make us care about them all of a sudden.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
But if you take the little snippets of information that we do know:
1) People from Philly saying that everything is pretty bad from there down to Atlanta 2) Jenner saying that the whole world is infected, and that most everything is gone 3) There are apparently large hordes of undead roaming the area, and we've seen them both on the highways and off, but even we know that the side roads are much more clear. 4) At the very least Atlanta and Fort Benning are overrun 5) An unsecured location is obviously not a good place to hole up. Knowing just those 5 things would make me think to find someplace secure, not some nebulous "let's head east" plan. Granted, he was one of the only people with a plan, but it was a simple, pretty dumb plan. But, since we do know where the show is going, it's a pretty moot point. I just don't think that heading towards I-95, given what little they know, is a great idea, despite the benefits that it might offer. Especially since they know they're low on ammo. |
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I'll toss my two cents in with those who think heading toward a major highway is a bad idea. You don't need much to permanently make a highway impassable. I'm actually surprised that the highway from Atlanta (seen in the 1st season) didn't use at least some of the inbound lanes as outbound lanes.
In a ZA you want to go somewhere that doesn't have a high population density. So stay out of the major cities and even the nearby suburbs. I would head to Texas myself, plenty of open land, plenty of guns. It has it's own power grid, sources of gasoline and plenty of red meat. |
For instance why exactly would you ALWAYS want to stay away from high population areas? What rule in the rulebook states that there could -never- be major cities that have managed to remain intact against the zombies? Even looking at what happened in the comic we see that a small group of survivors managed to wall off the town that the Governor was controlling. Why couldn't the Army have managed to do that to other towns that Mr. Philadelphia and his cohorts never saw in their travels?
Bottomline is that no one in this story has any real idea about what's happening in most of the rest of the world. Sure it might initially seem smart to run off to somewhere out in the middle of Texas to "ride it out" but for all you know there might be a hundred random towns in Florida or Maine that are completely safe and secure that you might never hear about if you do that.
Again the idea of "just heading east" might not make much sense all by itself. But it would seem to me that the opposite concept of "just finding a hole to live in for the rest of your life" is probably an equally dumb plan for your long term future in such a hopeless environment.
*** possible TV/comic spoilers warning***
Perhaps this is why we see that trying to stay in the Prison ultimately failed in the comic because this small group of survivors are trying to live without help from other survivors that we -already- know exist.
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It's one of the reasons I had to laugh at one of the characters describing the western states as "they're called fly-over states for a reason." Yes, yes they are. Wide open spaces and low population numbers for their size. Basically, just where you want to be when you're trying to avoid hordes of walking undead.
Heading east (needing to go near/around/through Atlanta) does indeed seem like a stupid idea.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus