Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
![]() you know, dont want to come across as attacking you, but its kind of a thing with any thread market related, you seem to always have a problem with it
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So, we can't go from Hero to Villain in one day...
Anyone who would find this option immersion breaking or game spoiling would already have had that issue with other market and in game alternatives to plot driven mechanics. This does seem like a complete non issue.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Yet there's already a fully working containment valve on alignment switching with the current tip mission model.
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Some heroes go redside then back to get Patron Pools. That's still a minority, since not all ATs get Patron Pools worth the trouble of doing that for.
The only people I know of who migrate the same character back and forth more than once are hard-core badgers and some role players. I'm a borderline hard-core badger, and I only ever move one character back and forth more than once.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
To be honest, with some of the horrible things you do as a vigilante to get to villain, it's amazing you can ever go back to hero at all.
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I think TG is being disingenuous. His argument of "immersion-breaking" doesn't even begin to hold up to scrutiny, which makes me feel he probably dislikes this for a completely different, much less rational reason. Coming up with plotlines wherein an instant change makes far more sense than a drawn-out rise or fall is trivial. Here's a few just off the top of my head:
-Surprise! I was secretly a Villain all along!
-I'm being mind controlled by an evil Circle of Thorns ritual!
-I was only a Villain because Arachnos had my family hostage!
-I was killed and brought back as an inherently evil undead Villain!
-But then a gypsy curse restored my old personality!
-But then I went Villain again after having sex with my girlfriend!
-But then I went back to normal and got my own spin-off show!
-I was completely reprogrammed by a Vigilante to switch from Villain to Hero!
And so on and so forth.
I think TG is being disingenuous. His argument of "immersion-breaking" doesn't even begin to hold up to scrutiny, which makes me feel he probably dislikes this for a completely different, much less rational reason.
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Coming up with plotlines wherein an instant change makes far more sense than a drawn-out rise or fall is trivial. |
That said, I'm trying to stop thread-sitting here, so feel free to continue this discussion without me.
In turn, please keep in mind that [roleplaying] is very important to a portion of the community, the one that's the vanguard of immersion in this game. Immersion is vital to an MMORPG since without it, it's ultimately indistinguishable from Prattlefield and Modern Gorefare.
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You can count me as part of that portion of the community who cares about roleplaying and immersion. Which is why I won't be buying any alignment change tokens for insta-switchinig and will instead continue enjoying the storylines of the tip missions. But I couldn't care less what other people are doing. Some of them only care about min-maxing their characters and killing stuff. More power to them.
When I talk about immersion, I'm going by my own experience with the tip missions and alignment changes and what I've seen on the boards (incidentally, I don't think there's much yo-yo'ing, which suggests the current system works fine). Perhaps you consider that subjective, but calling it disingenuous and implying ulterior motives is just being provocative.
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Which brings me to...
Trivial in perhaps more than one sense. Such switches have generally been received as unsatisfying by comics readers. |
That said, I'm trying to stop thread-sitting here, so feel free to continue this discussion without me. |
Do you really believe this? How much back-and-forth movement do you think there is? I think most characters moved in one direction and never went back. New characters are created now with the alignment of choice, because there is no barrier to what AT starts on what side.
Some heroes go redside then back to get Patron Pools. That's still a minority, since not all ATs get Patron Pools worth the trouble of doing that for. The only people I know of who migrate the same character back and forth more than once are hard-core badgers and some role players. I'm a borderline hard-core badger, and I only ever move one character back and forth more than once. |
It was worth it, I suppose, as I got several levels out of the tip missions, plus Come Full Circle which, as you say, not many people have, but quite frankly I would rather have bought two alignment change tokens and be done with it. Titan Weapons earns XP at a ridiculous rate, and I've had to be careful with the missions I pursue so that I don't outlevel any mayhems. I like the tip missions, and the Rogue and Vigilante missions are some of the most interesting I've ever seen in game (and I doubt many people see the 20-30 and 30-40 tips), but given that I'm pursuing specific objectives those missions were little more than chaff that only indirectly contributed to my objectives.
(If we must be immersive about it, then my Brute snuck aboard a tanker to Talos, kidnapped the fortune teller in Perez, ran around mocking heroes while cloaked under Energy Aura, and went to Striga to beat down on Council goons before sneaking back to the Rogue Isles.
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True, I did forget about folks who switch sides for Accolades. It's not something I do - I actually find it easier/comfortable to get the accolades the old fashioned due to a decent support network in game, having two accounts, etc.
But importantly, I did include the key phrase "more than once". I don't imagine you'll be going back villain side any time soon.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Yet there's already a fully working containment valve on alignment switching with the current tip mission model. To assert the idea behind monetizing alignment switches at this stage isn't profit, plain and simple, makes Paragon Studios sound like a 501(c) organization.
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(Incidentally, I beg anyone's pardon if my persistence in this thread comes off in any way as personalized. Obviously I feel strongly about this issue,
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Doesn't it, though?
My badger has gone all the way around the alignments three times so far. I would agree, though, that's hardly typical. I don't have any other toons that gone more than two 'steps' in any direction.
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True, I did forget about folks who switch sides for Accolades. It's not something I do - I actually find it easier/comfortable to get the accolades the old fashioned due to a decent support network in game, having two accounts, etc.
But importantly, I did include the key phrase "more than once". I don't imagine you'll be going back villain side any time soon. ![]() |
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Maybe it will help red side out somewhat. If players can use a token, join a redside tf, then switch back to help out the poor unfortunate souls who chose to stick with it for the long haul. :P
Kinda sad that blueside outnumbers the population of the rogue isles, npc's included.
Kills immersion dead? So I'm guessing you're also one of the people adamantly opposed to male characters obtaining carnie masks? Because that would do it too. Or is this a situation that wildly different.
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A lot of people ask for nothing to be offered in the stores you can't also earn in-game. A lot of people, not necessarily the same ones although I will bet there's overlap, complain when the store offers a QoL item that allows you to do things faster than normal.
If we're only going to sell things we can get in the game, and it has to also be as easy or easier to get in-game, that limits what you can sell in the store significantly, or realigns its target audience to be brain damaged players.
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Unless you pay for an Alignment Change token, of course.
... Wut. So, seriously now; why is there still an arbitrary time limit on alignment switching by doing tips and such in game? When you can just BUY the alignment you want (which, coincidentally, completely eradicates Posi's whole "We don't want alignment to be a switch you flick on and off" ramble from when it was first introduced...) it seems somewhat hypocritical to still limit the in-game method so unfairly. Bit of a bum move there. |
What they need to eliminate is the buying option... not the timer.
Heck, I'm still holding out for an auto-50 level token (and I'm only half-joking). For $20, we'll be able to level-bump to 50 one character, so we can begin to endlessly replay all the end-game content the devs and players can't make/get enough of - right out of the box!
This will also be about "time vs. convenience" as well: you can level up a toon yourself, but if you'd rather pay not to...
I'd not buy one (end-game content can go swallow rotten eggs, far as I care), but I'm sure plenty of people would buy them and it would be a quick and easy income stream.
A lot of people ask for nothing to be offered in the stores you can't also earn in-game. A lot of people, not necessarily the same ones although I will bet there's overlap, complain when the store offers a QoL item that allows you to do things faster than normal.
If we're only going to sell things we can get in the game, and it has to also be as easy or easier to get in-game, that limits what you can sell in the store significantly, or realigns its target audience to be brain damaged players. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
So now that the novelty of alignment change has worn off for some people, it's safe for the devs to turn it into for-profit sideline? The missions written around tips and alignment change are some of the best new content Paragon's added recently. Who will care now about their character's progress between the Cities of Heroes and Villains if it's reduced to a service charge?
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How is that relevant? You seem to be saying that if the store offers it instantly, that justifies eliminating the time gate in-game. But why is that relevant? If the store purchase is designed to buy your way past the time gate, saying that the existence of the store item invalidates the reason for having a time gate is illogical.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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