So, we can't go from Hero to Villain in one day...
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-01-13 07:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
anyone can do the alignment missions, silultaneously gaining xp, rewards, and character development, OR they can purchase the alignment change token to instantly switch to the other side, skipping over rogue and vigilante.
the item is clearly designed so that a player can "join" his friends on the other side. it's a matter of convenience and it's outside the scope of the player's RP.
Face it, your "immersion" and your roleplay environment have to be willing to accept extenuating circumstances.
In plenty of comic books, heroes have been fighting as villains or vice versa, only for us to find out "later" that it wasn't really them/they were brainwashed/it was a nemesis duplicate/an alien parasite had burrowed out their brain and replaced it with a turnip.
THIS IS NOT NEW.
Sudden unexplained shifts in the personality of a character are PAR FOR THE COURSE in every single comic book universe. Hell, in ANY fictional universe.
There are people out there who are even okay with Stephen Fry being Sherlock Holmes' gay brother (don't recall that from the original novels, hmm) because well, they don't mind Stephen Fry being allowed to be in the movie.
Plenty of people can come up with perfectly valid ways to "handwave" away this story nonsense. It's your fault if you can't.
you could have it all
My empire of dirt
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Mycroft Holmes appeared in the original stories written by Arther Conan Doyle. He wasn't an invention of the movie. In the stories he was unmarried and was definitely an odd duck; sexual orientation was not discussed publicly in Victorian England, so we have no real way of knowing whether he was gay unless we search the texts for subtle clues. My recollection of the stories aren't sufficiently clear for me to have an impression of Mycroft. I do remember he worked for the government in espionage and belonged to a club that valued its members privacy highly.|
Originally Posted by Party_Kake
There are people out there who are even okay with Stephen Fry being Sherlock Holmes' gay brother (don't recall that from the original novels, hmm) because well, they don't mind Stephen Fry being allowed to be in the movie.
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As for switching alignment on demand, it seems that the devs' position is that it's best for character development and game play if you take the time to do it right.
However, if some of us insist on doing it immediately, the devs are here to please, and will give us that. But those impatient people should bear the software development costs involved with making it possible.
That seems completely reasonable to me: we can have our cake and eat it too, but we'll have to pay the baker for making it.
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What Development costs? The system is already there, the alignment tokens are going to be something like changing a few integers and numbers (Alignment = H0, Amerits = 0, Progbar = 0, etc) |
Originally Posted by Rodion
But those impatient people should bear the software development costs involved with making it possible.
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There is no added development cost here, not any that makes a blind bit of sense anyhow.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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There's also the fact that removing the timegate makes alignment tokens less valuable, which means a lot of people who might otherwise have bought them will just power through the tip missions instead. Why is it such a terrible thing when Paragon Studios tries to turn a profit? The whole game goes down if they don't.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
EDIT: Needs moar doom:
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"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
If you can use this to confirm your alignment I'd be willing to throw some money at it so new characters can actually do WWD #1 and #2 at the levels they get access to them and *NOT* waste the once per SSA and time-gated reward tables.
Personally I don't sideswitch enough to use it for that, but not having to waste two days and 11 missions just to get the alignment power and access to A-merits would be something I'd pay for. I bought the cape and aura unlocks, while that is account wide the gameplay effect is much more trivial.
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Have you ever done any software development? Even the most trivial change to a program requires coding changes. In a system with client and server components, it's even more complex because you have to make sure changes work properly on two or more platforms.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
What Development costs? The system is already there, the alignment tokens are going to be something like changing a few integers and numbers (Alignment = H0, Amerits = 0, Progbar = 0, etc)
There is no added development cost here, not any that makes a blind bit of sense anyhow. |
First someone had to write a design for it. And someone had to read the design, and approve it, and then estimate the amount of work involved and then schedule that work.
They had to implement the alignment change token, which required software development. They had to implement they actual change, which involves teleporting you from wherever you currently are to Mercy/Atlas and flipping all your alignment bits. If there's any graphic icon involved, they need to have an artist do the art. Then they have to integrate that art into the system. If there's any text involved, they have to translate into French and German.
Then they have to document it and write test cases. Someone has to sit down and think through things that might cause problems, like switching alignment in Ouroboros, or while sidekicked, or while on a TF, or in AE, or on a Trial, or ... well, you get the picture.
The programmer had to code it and try alignment switching over and over again to make sure that everything worked right. That could easily eat up a couple of days. Most likely the programmer encountered some assumption that the original programmer had made about alignment switching that wasn't true in this case (like, maybe, a hero can't turn directly into a villain -- they have to be a vigilante first), and then something about the original code had to be changed. And that meant that the normal way of changing alignment had to be checked and double-checked to make sure that the new changes didn't break the old way of changing alignment.
Then someone has to go through the test cases for QA and make sure that things all work the way they're supposed to work, and then add new test cases as they think of them. And then make sure nothing was broken in all the possible ways of changing alignment on a character who'd switched "naturally" and quickly.
Then there's the software integration task: every time you change the system you have to make sure that the changes get propagated to the right code base at the right time. When you're running a live system, a beta system, a test system, and are coding for i21.5, i22, i23 and beyond, making sure everything is where it should be is a non-trivial task.
Then these things represent time spent by workers who could be doing something else that might make even more money for the company.
So, yeah, this probably isn't a big task since most of the complex machinery was implemented before this. But when everything is said and done, I wouldn't be surprised if they spend a hundred or more man hours on a "trivial" change like, and that could easily cost upwards of $10,000 when you consider salary, benefits, lost opportunity costs and the like.
And people who actually work for NCsoft can probably rattle a dozen more things that I don't even know about that cost them even more time and money.
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Because he's a hypocrite plain and simple. This game is now a cash grab and they'll make money anyway they can even if it means going back on their word.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Unless you pay for an Alignment Change token, of course.
... Wut. So, seriously now; why is there still an arbitrary time limit on alignment switching by doing tips and such in game? When you can just BUY the alignment you want (which, coincidentally, completely eradicates Posi's whole "We don't want alignment to be a switch you flick on and off" ramble from when it was first introduced...) it seems somewhat hypocritical to still limit the in-game method so unfairly. Bit of a bum move there. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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And why not? Positron is on record having said 'we don't want alignment to be a switch you flick on and off'. They clearly ARE ok with that, if they are then willing to sell instant changes.|
Originally Posted by RuthlessSamael
There's also the fact that removing the timegate makes alignment tokens less valuable, which means a lot of people who might otherwise have bought them will just power through the tip missions instead. Why is it such a terrible thing when Paragon Studios tries to turn a profit? The whole game goes down if they don't.
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Again, what is wrong with keeping the merit gate but allowing people to change all the way in one day if they want? For some people, myself included, that's still quite a lot of missioning and time. But it's more annoying having to do a certain number of tips in one day, or I'll be barred from doing the one extra that I missed because of some ludicrous gate.
I honestly don't see why people are getting so defensive about a time gate that has always been pointless and purely based off the 'not a switch' statement. That statement is no longer true. Ergo, why time gate it? Let people have some more, oh what's that word...FREEDOM?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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No matter how many times you say this, Alpha, it will never stop being false. If it costs you five dollars to switch alignment, then alignment is not a switch that you flip on and off, unless, for some reason, you assume that Positron could only have meant that he was referring specifically to the amount of time required and nothing else when he made that statement, which is completely absurd. That's not even what the phrase means. The point of saying that something is like "flicking a switch" is that it is trivially easy, with no significant costs of any kind associated with it. Thus, once you attach a literal monetary cost to something, it is not like "flicking a switch" as is popularly understood.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I honestly don't see why people are getting so defensive about a time gate that has always been pointless and purely based off the 'not a switch' statement. That statement is no longer true.
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Yeah, more freedom would be delightful. Like, for example, it'd be awesome if I could have Incarnate content without paying for VIP. And if the Prateorian content was available to me free of charge, too, and the alignment system (although those're both a bit moot, since I already bought a copy of Going Rogue and I'm just waiting for it to arrive). It'd also be nice if all the costume options were free and, well, the whole bloody game. But then who the Hell's going to pay for the servers, let alone development costs?
The time gate is there because it makes the alternative, which is being sold for money, worth that money. If the in-game version were easier to obtain, the value of the store item goes down objectively. Paragon Studios is a business that makes money, and the only promise they made you was that alignment switching would never be trivial, and it's not.
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Actually, it is still true. For most people, the money "gate" is just as much a deterrent from "flipping a switch" at their leisure as the time gate. Just because you have wads of cash to throw around for every convenience in the game if you wanted to doesn't mean everybody does.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I honestly don't see why people are getting so defensive about a time gate that has always been pointless and purely based off the 'not a switch' statement. That statement is no longer true. Ergo, why time gate it? Let people have some more, oh what's that word...FREEDOM?
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However, it is just that: a convenience. It's not game-breaking if those who do have tons of disposable income throw it at this purchase every day. But the people able to and willing to do that are going to be rare. Even for those who have the resources, it's not a big enough thing that I'd think a lot will drop the funds on it, especially since it can be done in game with a little more time. Ultimately, it's no bigger a deal than a vanity pet.
Edit: And I love that last line. It's like the people in WoW trying to whine about not enough PvP support by saying "It's World of **WAR***craft!1!111one!" Quit inserting your own implications into the title.
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It increases the distance between haves and have nots. If I have more dollars than you I have more freedom in this game.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Welcome to America.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
It increases the distance between haves and have nots. If I have more dollars than you I have more freedom in this game.
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Europe, like me, says 'Thanks a lot'.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Welcome to America.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Game's based in America, so the point still stands. Besides, I think the principle is just as true there as it is here, anyway.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Europe, like me, says 'Thanks a lot'.
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capitalism everywhere?
From my perspective, I have one character where RP'ing the "fall to darkness, search for redemption" thing was fun. I rarely play villains, so the main reason that I take most of my characters redside is to grab the blasted Scorpion Shield and then get the heck out ASAP.
If they made the villain power pools available without the extra rigamarole, I would probably just remain blueside.
So, for me most of the time an alignment token would be purely a game mechanic to help me finish my build. $5 is too much. But I'd pay $1 though.
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No timegate in this game is arbitrary, in any applicable sense of the word.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Again, there is normally an abitrary limit on this.
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It's not how America works, it's how all of society ever works. If providing a service requires resources (servers, the time and effort of programmers, and etc.) then someone's got to provide those resources. If Paragon Studios doesn't make money, then they cannot keep the game online. It's not like there's some law that could be passed that would magically make food, medicine, and shelter infinite, and it's not like there's a bunch of European companies who are giving their product and everything to do with it for free and somehow not going under.
If you don't understand why letting other people buy their way through the game impacts immersion, you probably don't understand MMOs and why people prefer to roleplay in multiplayer games as opposed to single player ones.
Edit: Let me clarify: If you require everybody around you to conform to your ideals of "IC Immersion" in order to immerse yourself in the game and can't bring yourself to overlook those who don't, then you're a bad RPer. Period. Not everyone in the game is going to RP the same as you or even RP at all. Part of being a good RPer is working around that.
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