Where the hoo-ha did "Toon" come from?

Hehe, a somewhat fair summary of things, except that it completely goes against the fact that I happen to be someone who cares a great deal about words and proper usage and such as well...
I am also someone who holds a great deal of depth, importance and seriousness with my characters.
The fact is that I do tend to use the term "character" for my characters (if I were referring to them in such a manner)... However, I also use "toon", including in actual verbal/spoken usage.

The real difference is in the thinking that "toon" is somehow a trivial, incorrect, childish, uncaring or -whatever else anyone wants to paint it as- term.
I don't see it as that and it is not because I don't care much about such things as being well spoken or the correct usage of a language.
I simply see it as an appropriate and acceptable term.

So, perhaps there is some other difference that we could find if we dig deep enough.


EDIT:
Another aspect of this, for me, is the context in which certain words may be used.

I am the sort of person who may say, "Pardon me, but I do not think that what you are currently doing is entirely appropriate" in one instance...
Or I might say, "Oi! What the **** do you think you're doing? Cut it out!" in another instance.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Well, you're obviously not included in the "Many people..." he's arguing with, such as DarkGob, Hyperstrike, Organica and others who've said literally or to paraphrase, "Good grief, really?" to the entire debate, for whom one word is not worth this voluminous discussion (you folks would love the Phrontistery ). And though I'm inclined to agree with them, I do hold my own usage to higher standards.

Electric-Knight, part of what we're seeing here is a transition from "Happy" to "Happy", 1950s style, if you know what I mean. It's incredibly amusing, enlightening and frustrating all at the same time, to hear you say that "toon" is perfectly acceptable and not derogatory at all to you, when my experience (again, playing MMORPGs since November 1997 ) supplies me with a history of the term that speaks otherwise, very much so. But this would not be the first time that people have taken a derogatory slang term and worn it proudly on their sleeve, only to see its original implication eroded by doing so. I imagine that "Toon", for you, is a very innocent and colorful word. Good for you, and I mean that, too; I don't think this is the worst thing that has ever happened to modern language. (It's still a silly, childish word to me, and my characters are too good for it. LOLOLOL. )

So, you're saying that you and the doc are French. There's nothing wrong with that!

Just learn how to keep your fussy little noses out of other people's business. Well, at least you have anyways. ;D

Well, appearances can be deceiving.

As I mentioned earlier, while the term makes me personally cringe, I'm not about to try to enforce some rule against it or ruin a perfectly good team because of it in-game. I'm not even about to jump down people's throats for it here on the forums. I'm on here every day, I see the term used every day, and I ignore it.

The only reason I'm letting it all out in this thread is that someone else brought it up, and this is where the discussion went. I said my piece, other people responded, I responded to them. If they want to say "toon," fine. But every time they do, it's going to, to me, make them sound... simple (even if I know they aren't). If they want to think I'm a jerk for thinking they sound simple when they say it, there's nothing I can do about that. Nor is there anything I can do about thinking it in the first place. Realistically, nobody's going to change anybody's mind here.

If you're comfortable in your Snuggie, then wear it, folks. Just don't act like I'm your enemy because I think you look like a doofus in it and refuse to buy one myself.

Since you're evidently all about mindless nit-picking, I'll just say that it's lucky
for me that none of those various 'ur' topics come up in normal conversation
very often.

But, thankfully, if they ever do, I'll have your wonderful post to help me determine
which complex meaning of "ur" they'd possibly be referring to rather than simply
assuming it's the "ur" we typically see on these boards and in broadcast all too
frequently.


4

Hehehe
Yeah, I'm not sure I'd classify all of those in this thread as not caring, as they have had a good deal of replies in here and are just simply trying to explain their view of it against some people who have a rather harsh judgment of it.
Regardless, I do understand what you are saying and if I come off strongly it is only the way I tend to word things and not so much how seriously I am taking this discussion to heart.

I don't recall the original usage being inherently derogatory though. It always seemed to be somewhat in the same place it is now... where some people seem to find it to be derogatory, but others just feel like it is an appropriate term (somewhat in a casual or endearing way, really).
I see it very much like "kids" instead of "children". Of course, there are some who dislike that usage of "kids"... Hehe!
"Knuckleheads" instead of "my team of scientists".

Honestly, I just like having a variety of words to choose from, as opposed to just using "characters" or their individual names.
I've always most liked avatars (although, that seems to have dropped off in usage for me). And it is exceedingly funny to me that multiple people have mentioned the use of "avatar" as seeming too pompous.
So, by some people's estimations, I am too pompous and, by others, I am too simplistic!
That actually works fine for me, as I don't feel too comfortable if people of varying tastes don't take offense with my opinions. It's about the only way that I know I must be doing things well.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

As far as old computing terms go, there was something called an M.O.B., or "Moveable Object Block". Sprites are a type of MOB, for example. This is what some older gamers might be referring back to when using the term. But I couldn't speak for all of them.

And how.

Only in your own little fantasy world.

However, all said, I'm not saying not to use the term. You're free to call them whatever you want. But that doesn't mean I'm not free to find it an annoying and childish term.

I am someone who definitely cares about word meaning, although I wouldn't classify myself as either a "supporter" or "hater." It's not the like word "character" meaning "a game entity and its associated stats" has a long history either, so if "toon" is upending an established tradition, it's one only slightly older than I am.

I find that rather tragic, actually. You (normally) like a word that has come to be accepted in academic, legal, and scientific circles as a general term for a virtual character (or whatever serves to give the player agency in a virtual online world), and it falls into disuse by you because "people" think it is pompous. This is, to my mind, a clear example of the anti-intellectualism I alluded to elsewhere. The prevailing social climate seems to be that If you don't cozy up to the lowest common denominator (slang), and instead choose to put your intellect and education to (public) use, you are a pompous ***. Sad, sad, sad.

I always thought that when someone say mob in game that means a criminal gang, since we are heroes and fighting criminals and even on villains we also fight other criminals.

Every day you learn something new.

- Il Numero Uno (The Number One)

Nah, "Mob" dates all the way back to the early days of MUDs.

Holy incorrect leap there, Wing_Leader!
Hehe, I do absolutely understand what you are talking about, but please, spare the "tragic" commentary, because I only said that my usage of it seems to have dropped off... And believe me, after I typed that I realized I'd have to remedy that... Still, I did not say that I stopped using it and I certainly didn't stop due to any peer pressure.
Trust me. You don't know me, hehe, but you don't have to explain anti-intellectualism to me and you don't have to think that I bow to it in the slightest.
Honestly, I've been fighting against it for my entire adult life (and longer than that) and it is a giant constant in everything that I do *personally and professionally (to my detriment... as well as to the opposition, hehe).

It's just funny to see you talking about it like that, because it is quite ironic! Still... We all have to keep vigil on such things and make sure we do our part in upholding that which we believe in, so I do understand!

Regardless of the mistake in this particular instance, I fully agree that it is sad, sad, sad, because it absolutely does happen in great amounts and quite frequently.
It has been a mainstay of this society for a long while now and I hope to see it countered and overcome.

However, I do not see having the choice of character, toon and avatar as anti-intellectualism. I see each and all having a place and I enjoy having and using a large vocabulary and options for my brain to use based on whim, context and specific differences.

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Not sure how worked up they are, but dang, man. That comment equating it to anti-intellectualism and 3+3=7? I'm trying to think of something to say that won't make me as judgey as them but it's not coming to me. So we shall leave it!

I like using toon, char, character, hero, villaim, and puppet. What I use tends to rely which keyboard I'm on, since one is a lot harder to type on than the other.

^This, this, and more this.

As a matter of fact, EQ also spawned the interjection "woot!" or more often way back then, "w00t!"

Also, "ding!" for leveling, started way back in EQ, since the leveling sound in EQ was a quite distinctive "ding!" sound.

C.S. Lewis does not agree with you, and I'm on his side.

The OPs Question was at the time I posted and still is...

"What I meant, and what people seem to have missed, is how it became a relevant term to this game, or alternatively to whatever other game it may have spawned from, and how it migrated to us."

Notice it is a multi part question one part being "and how it migrated to us."

My response was in reference to Lolipup who posted a private message from the Devs informing us as to where they think the name came from and why. Do you feel that information from developers of the game in question on the subject in question is not relevant or is incorrect in answering that part of the question?

Post from Lolipup

Bramphousian, how could you get through most of this thread without just saying "Look at my avatar"?

Not to take "credit" away from the devs, but that PM was just a guess. As should be well illustrated at this point, the term "toon" has been in use in MMO gaming for many years. It "migrated to us", if you like, because many/most of the original players of CoH were veterans of previous games who had picked up the nomenclature. I seriously doubt that it had anything at all to do with a redname making a casual remark in a forum.

One of my all time favorite quotes...

"Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
- C.S.Lewis

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

It was Not a single post by a single Redname as you seem to think but multiple posts by multiple Rednames.


And not just any old Redname adopted it but The Head Redname, the most influential person in the game at the time, Jack Emmert.


To top it off it was used near the beginning of the game “In the days of alpha going into beta before release” a time when terminology has a high chance of being adopted.


Do you really think that the use of a term by multiple Red Names and the adoption of the word by the head of the company in the early days had no impact on weather the word was used and accepted by at least some of the players?

Surely there were many sources of the word but the adoption by not one but MULTIPLE Devs of the word “Toon” when commenting in MULTIPLE Posts should not just be hand waved away. Without at least some counter evidence this appears to be at least ONE of the answers to the question “How the word Toon migrated to CoH”




Here is the complete quote once again courtesy of Lulipop