Where the hoo-ha did "Toon" come from?
By
80sBaby,
Posted on: 2012-01-09 24:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Me either, but it makes me want to scream every time. But I behave like a good girl and I don't because in the end, I tell myself it doesn't matter. I can almost look past it and I know people don't mean for it to be as diminishing as it is in my mind.
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Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
I really can't explain why I hate the term,
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- Ashley
[Rocker Girl (Earth/Earth Dom); Sweet Venom (Plant/Time Ctrl)]
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For me, "toon" isn't really the problem. It's a symptom of a problem:|
Originally Posted by Organica
Toon is easier to type. The End.
It's amazing what gets people all worked up. |
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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
An attitude that "3+3=7" is close enough because "u know wut i mean."
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I'll forgive it if you're playing the game from a cell phone and that cell phone has only a numeric keypad. If you have a full keyboard with a dedicated key for every letter, there's no excuse.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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Go ghoti.
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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
I feel like I spend half my life deciphering secret, cryptic puzzles that read like vanity license plates instead of honest attempts at communication.
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MMOs need "toon" like a ghoti needs a bicycle.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Go ghoti.
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FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
LOL u win! ;D
A nice anecdote I have that relates to this subject:
A few years ago, I was in a PUG doing some TF or another, I forget which one now. Everyone was typing in Internet shorthand in team chat. The phrase "lrn 2 play" kept coming up over and over again. In the same amount of time it took for them to type that out, I finally came back with "learn how to type". The time between that and the line I'd previously entered was short enough to confirm that even with their shorthand, I typed faster than they did.
They were duly impressed.
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This.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I spend too much time and creativity to call them "toons". I have "characters".
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Or maybe because they'd rather not die while typing out the word "character" in the middle of battle? Look, txtspk is silly, but it can be entirely acceptable in an environment where things needs to be typed quickly (and not everybody does type quickly).|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
Ultimately, I think "toon" comes from the same places as "ur" and "ppl":
It grates on my nerves just a little, too. Can you tell? |
I don't get the hate myself, it reminds me of people who hate Comic Sans MS with the burning passion of all the suns in the universe. Me, I use it (the word "toon", not Comic Sans
) because CoH was my first MMO, and I saw other people calling their characters "toons", so I picked up on that lingo. And to me, it makes sense, especially in this game, whose entire foundation is superhero comic books. I use both words interchangeably though, mostly it depends on whether or not I feel like typing out "character".I also don't get the hang-up about being reminded of what you're doing (playing with virtual action figures, essentially). Why would you feel so much shame over something so ridiculous, especially if it's something you enjoy? If you truly feel shameful about it, then stop, because it can never bring you true joy. If you're not going to stop because you're a masochist or stubborn or whatever, at least chill the hell out and let other people enjoy themselves and call their enjoyment whatever they want. The game's not important enough to quibble over such semantics, and neither are your "characters".
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Yes and no. On a "toon" you run around, perform (and receive) acts of ludicrous ultraviolence and, at the end, every gets up and goes on their merry way.|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
But in either case it refers to something more akin to Spongebob than Superman.
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So, for some people, seeing their online avatars as "toons" is no great intuitive leap.
*MEEP MEEP!* /em superspeedawayintothedesert
As to why it isn't prevalent in tabletop playing? Tabletop playing has no similar "visual" component. Yes, you might have a grid or hex map with figurines on it. It's just not the same.
Personally, I'm not heavily invested into the RP aspect of the game (it can, admittedly, be a bit creepy at times). As such, most of my RP is a lot more "meta". Where the avatars have a nice back story, but in-play, are merely extensions (or facets) of my personality (or id, depending on whom you're speaking to about me).
My main, Hyperstrike, is about as meta as it gets. Bordering on "She-Hulk" territory. A couple of my characters are full-on whackjobs (in my typical tongue-firmly-fused-in-cheek manner), which would be difficult to play properly and VERY confusing and off-putting for those playing with me.
As such, I let most of the dramatic pyrotechnics stay where they're best. In my head. And I play in a more down-to-earth manner.
As to how "old school" one is? Use of "toon" won't give you that. It'll simply give you an idea of how predisposed to use the term "toon" they are.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Me: TOON!|
Originally Posted by AshleyHudson
Me either, but it makes me want to scream every time. But I behave like a good girl and I don't because in the end, I tell myself it doesn't matter. I can almost look past it and I know people don't mean for it to be as diminishing as it is in my mind.
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Ashley: ARRRGH!
Me: TOON!
Ashley: ARRRGH!
Me: TOON!
Ashley: ARRRGH!
Me: TOON!
Ashley: ARRRGH!
Me: TOON!
Ashley: You know, the fastest way to a man's heart? It's THROUGH THE RIBCAGE!
Me: ARRRGH!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Sorry. If you want a language that doesn't have these problems, try formal Latin. No growth. No change. No nothing. It's a dead language.|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
For me, "toon" isn't really the problem. It's a symptom of a problem:
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English is still a living language however. While I dislike illiterate uses ("ur" and other "lolcatzisms" and the like) as much as the next person "toon" isn't an illiterate use. It's a very natural, organic contraction of a basic (and topical) concept.
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| there's no excuse. |
Maybe not a GOOD excuse. But an excuse nonetheless.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
Because nobody has asked within recent memory, and searching "toon" will get me nowhere.
And most terms have easy-to follow roots. "Proc" was just short for "procedure", describing a line of code which triggers and executes when certain parameters are met, and that term can easily be traced from WoW to everything else. |
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Originally Posted by Ultimus
The term toon first emerged in late 2001 early 2002 in a game called Everquest. I played Ultima Online from when it first came out (Which was the "first" MMORPG, see the quotations) and that was never used there.
When Everquest came out it emerged as what paved the way for all the other MMORPG's out there. There were several terms flying around at the time: |
Positron and several other original developers came from EverQuest, so it would be natural for them to use their terminology. If any players use the word 'toon,' it's because we've seen our Devs use it first.
I would imagine that moving from text-based MUDS to animated avatars led to calling the animation a 'toon' because it was a cartoon... an animated character. Actually the use of "avatar" should be the word flagged as a bit too highfalutin' and strange.
And with regard to 'proc' it did *not* come from WoW. People forget that CoH came out before WoW and there were other MMOs before both CoH and WoW. It came from EverQuest. See here.
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Interesting discussion.
I often use "toon" to describe my characters, and it's intended without any
derogatory implications whatsoever. In no way (in my mind) does it denigrate
the time I've spent making them, creating their backstories, equipping them or playing them.
For me, this is a game with animated characters, along the lines of cartoon superheroes
I see on tv and movies (never did get into comic books much).
"Toon" seems like a logical and sensibly descriptive abbreviation for them to me.
If that usage upsets some purists, they have an implied appology from me,
based on my own intent and interpretation of the term, but it won't dissuade
me from using it.
I do think the various derivation origins mentioned are interesting though.
Regards,
4
PS> If you ever see me type "ur" in a post (apart from this disclaimer) , you have
my permission to come over to my house and slap me upside the head (I too, dislike
internet speak - it borders on functional illiteracy to me)
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
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But... your user icon...
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Originally Posted by FourSpeed
PS> If you ever see me type "ur" in a post (apart from this disclaimer)
, you have my permission to come over to my house and slap me upside the head (I too, dislike internet speak - it borders on functional illiteracy to me) |
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I can't imagine a situation in which I'd need to use either during a fight or other fast-paced situation. If I'm referring to a character as a character in game chat, it's certainly not while I'm hip-deep in Nemesis. And in my experience, that's how... pretty much every player is. If you need help, it's "help" or maybe "I need help," not "my toon needs help" or "my character needs help." A character is only referred to as such (using any of the terms being discussed here) outside of actual combat: "That's a cool-looking character." "Do you have any other heroes?" "Have you used Willpower on a toon before?"
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
Or maybe because they'd rather not die while typing out the word "character" in the middle of battle? Look, txtspk is silly, but it can be entirely acceptable in an environment where things needs to be typed quickly (and not everybody does type quickly).
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FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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hehehe... we all have our eccentricities |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
But... your user icon...
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I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
Okay got this onlie from the Urban Dictionary:
It became a popular way to refer to a cartoon character in the 1981 Gary K. Wolf novel Who Censored Roger Rabbit?
This from Dictionary.com:
noun
1. a sketch or drawing, usually humorous, as in a newspaper or periodical, symbolizing, satirizing, or caricaturing some action, subject, or person of popular interest.
2. comic strip.
3. animated cartoon.
4. Fine Arts . a full-scale design for a picture, ornamental motif or pattern, or the like, to be transferred to a fresco, tapestry, etc.
Obviously here on line or elsewhere the term toon is simply a shorter way of referring to a cartoon... The other alternative makes no sense at all .. "I just ceated a new TW/WP Car! Its a brute!"
It is interesting that on several online games, including coh in certain circles, using toon seems to reflect ignorance or stupidity. Yet it is perfectly acceptable to shorten entire phrases like IMO, OMG, BRB, AFK, LOL, LMAO, ROFL. ROFLMAO, Bio break, LFT, LFM, OOC, ((OOC)), BBL, Gratz, etc, ect ect! We have no qualms abbrieviating just about anything to shorten our chats but "TOON" is taboo.
Personally I very back and forth between referring to my many "TOON" as characters or toons... Sorry if this upsets the hard core, almost maniacal, role play set but the entire game is based on comic books that are filled with CARTOONs! Sorry but I have close to 45 characters on virtue alone and while they all have a bio when I am at the keyboard playing them they all have the same personality... If I had 45 different personalities I could keep track of and switch to at will I'd probably need therapy and meds.
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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Haha, I think you've got it!
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Me: TOON!
Ashley: ARRRGH! Me: TOON! Ashley: ARRRGH! Me: TOON! Ashley: ARRRGH! Me: TOON! Ashley: ARRRGH! Me: TOON! Ashley: You know, the fastest way to a man's heart? It's THROUGH THE RIBCAGE! Me: ARRRGH! |
- Ashley
[Rocker Girl (Earth/Earth Dom); Sweet Venom (Plant/Time Ctrl)]
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Speak for yourself. The ones I left in there have been making me fantasize about doing Jack Bauer-like things to people since before "Jack Bauer" was a thing.|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Yet it is perfectly acceptable to shorten entire phrases like IMO, OMG, LOL, LMAO, ROFL. ROFLMAO, etc! We have no qualms abbrieviating just about anything....
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Also, a "cartoon" is a drawn picture, or a story told using drawn pictures. The characters contained therein are "cartoon characters." Calling Fry from Futurama a "cartoon" is like calling Jack Bauer from 24 a "TV show." In my opinion.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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BTW, it's "ROTFL". Stands for "Rolling On The Floor, Laughing". Over the years, the T has slowly been becoming more absent. Yes, people are so lazy that they'll even shorten things that were already shortened!
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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Yet it is perfectly acceptable to shorten entire phrases like IMO, OMG, BRB, AFK, LOL, LMAO, ROFL. ROFLMAO, Bio break, LFT, LFM, OOC, ((OOC)), BBL, Gratz, etc, ect ect!
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Says the person signing their posts with 4|
Originally Posted by FourSpeed
PS> If you ever see me type "ur" in a post (apart from this disclaimer)
, you have my permission to come over to my house and slap me upside the head (I too, dislike internet speak - it borders on functional illiteracy to me) |
Okay, you can't talk about the supercontinent, the ancient Sumerian city-state, the programming language, the Steven King novella (downloadable onto your Kindle), the University of Rochester, the University of Richmond, the German prefix, the boards game, the 3-piece band or any other person, place or thing that is spelled ur.
Got it.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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I don't know about you, but I carry on conversations during combat all the time. Not if it's intense and I need to focus on what I'm doing (especially if it's a toon that requires micromanagement), but still pretty regularly. Example:|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
I can't imagine a situation in which I'd need to use either during a fight or other fast-paced situation. If I'm referring to a character as a character in game chat, it's certainly not while I'm hip-deep in Nemesis. And in my experience, that's how... pretty much every player is. If you need help, it's "help" or maybe "I need help," not "my toon needs help" or "my character needs help." A character is only referred to as such (using any of the terms being discussed here) outside of actual combat: "That's a cool-looking character." "Do you have any other heroes?" "Have you used Willpower on a toon before?"
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Teammate: Yeah I've been wanting to try an Ill/Storm troller, I just never got around to it
Me: I've got an Ill/Storm toon, she just hit level 39 and it's pretty great
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Basically, it comes from the grossly narrow perception that animated image = "cartoon".
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Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
Because nobody has asked within recent memory, and searching "toon" will get me nowhere.
There are alot of things about this game and it's players that drive me loopy. Catgirls, Fire/Kin roflfarmers, "Dark Lord Dark of Darkness" characters on blueside, to name a few. But there is one thing that has been slowly plucking at my nerves non-stop since I started my career of defeating enemies by bludgeoning them with my own health pool: People using the word "Toon". Maybe it's the childish, degrading nature of the term instantly calling to mind Bugs Bunny slapstick*, serving to remind me that I am in fact a 26 year old manchild playing a MMO instead of getting drunk and grunting at football games like a real man. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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You seem to be draping the word "cartoon" with more meaning that most people intend. When I say "cartoon" I'm not necessarily referring to My Little Pony.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Basically, it comes from the grossly narrow perception that animated image = "cartoon".
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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So... in any a situation where shaving five whole letters off of what you're typing is in any way significant, chances are you're too busy to be typing at all, and you won't be responding anyway until that boss is finished off or that room is cleared or whatever. Either that, or things aren't so hairy that you can't manage complete sentences with capitalization and everything (but no end punctuation for some reason), in which case you probably don't really need five keystrokes' worth of time anyway.|
Originally Posted by DarkGob
I don't know about you, but I carry on conversations during combat all the time. Not if it's intense and I need to focus on what I'm doing (especially if it's a toon that requires micromanagement), but still pretty regularly.
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Got it.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
I'm not sure about everyone else, but I was never much of a comic book fan - at least not directly. My experience with comic-book characters was in the form of Saturday morning cartoons. Specifically, the Marvel ones from the early 90s. When I think of comic-book characters, it's those ones that come to mind.
So since this is a comic-book themed MMO, it makes sense to me to refer to the characters as "toons".
I do admit though that some of my real-life friends that don't play CoH, but do play other MMOs, have given me funny looks if I mention the word "toon" when referring to characters.