SSA Favoritism or "Dammnit writers, throw Heroes a bone!"
By
Arbiter_Shade,
Posted on: 2011-12-17 19:57 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I will say, the SSAs seem to be having the desired effect. We are talking about them, speculating about them, and most importantly CARING about what happens in them. In my book, no matter which side wins, the game seems to be better as a result.
TW/Elec Optimization
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Isn't that signature a Professor "Twixt" Manchild reference?
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
I agree to a lot of things when I sign in, but the word "research" appears nowhere in the forum rules and guidelines that I can find. Feel free to point me to it if I missed it.
As far as NCSoft goes, I have no control over what they do with my postings. That's trivially true. I don't care about them. It's the people who wouldn't bother asking them that I'd like to deter from treating me as a datapoint without my consent. |
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But less satisfying. The one thing I don't like in storytelling is a Pyrrhic victory where you won, but you pretty much lost at the same time. I've long since lost my stomach for that kind of unpleasant drama, and seeing it more and more often all over the place in the game bothers me.|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
To me, that's what makes this one of the first truly interesting stories to be told in CoH in quite some time.
It's easy to be a hero when your side is always winning. Being a hero when powerful people are dropping dead all around you? That's more impressive. |
More than anything, all those arcs where we lose have succeeded in losing ME as their audience. I'm simply not interested in watching depressing failure after depressing failure with the vague promise that someone will die at the end in a depressing failure. I don't care what it's all leading up to, it ain't worth sitting through to get there.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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It doesn't have to. One of the things you agree to is all materials submitted to their servers belongs to them. That includes forum posts. So, again, you have no say in how it is used once you submit it.|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
I agree to a lot of things when I sign in, but the word "research" appears nowhere in the forum rules and guidelines that I can find. Feel free to point me to it if I missed it.
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| I'd keep going, but (a) I don't think you have much actual background in human subjects protections, and as such are just sniping for the sake of sniping, and (b) it's a threadjack. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
I'm of the mind that what is likely to happen in WWD5 is that Wade is going to use the blood he snagged in 3 and the remaining obelisk stated in 1 to get in on this Incarnate action. I doubt he'll get to keep that power for long, mind. Probably just to the end of WWD7. Or, if he DOES keep the power, I expect he's going to delve too greedily and too deeply, and wind up with a brain full of Well.
Also, it'll be 35-44. And Wade, as a result of this, will be 54 (+2). Because if there is one thing that I know that people love, it's a hopeless boss fight. EVERYONE loves that! ... Right?
But yeah, if that comes to pass, I expect that WWD 6 and 7 will be co-op deals, because I can't imagine too many villains wanting an all-powerful Wade in the mix.
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Originally Posted by Venture
I'd never use a nuke in a superhero universe. You nuke a city, you kill 1.5 million people minus one. The last guy not only gets superpowers from the explosion, but ones that let him survive a nuke...and wow, is he torqued off
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PPD Mastermind
If Wade gains the power of the Well, I count on him being absorbed into Rularuu in some way, probably by becoming one of the unseen Aspects, but not until after the super-charged Wade kills Statesman of course. Ideally, having Wade ascend to Rularuu also opens the Shadow Shard into a co-op zone (lore-wise, all they have to do is let Vanguard take over the military operations goig on in there to justify villain activity).
On the plus side, since we know Statesman is dying, and since we know they want to handle that via Phasing, and we know that Phasing has to be built into a zone from the ground up, we know that Independence Port is getting an update. Here's hoping they add two more train stations to the zone (IP North, IP Central, and IP South!)
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Originally Posted by Venture
I'd never use a nuke in a superhero universe. You nuke a city, you kill 1.5 million people minus one. The last guy not only gets superpowers from the explosion, but ones that let him survive a nuke...and wow, is he torqued off
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PPD Mastermind
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The true villainous path would be to let that someone else finish the job, then crack them over the skull with a cinder block and take over the sweet, sweet operation they unwittingly set up for you.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Saving your own skin and making sure someone else doesn't takeover/destroy the world isn't exactly heroic.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
In the case of the ITF, it's in your best interests NOT to let the timeline get too effed up, otherwise you may stop existing. Plus, as Imperious says, it's a fine excuse to spill some blood.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Lastly, he's indebted to you. Being owed a favor can be a very valuable thing, not to mention the Roman armor you get from the deal, which you can flip in the present for quick cash.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I'm sorry, but I fail to find a problem in this for any of my villains and their varied motivations. It's always a fun time beating down some primitive screwheads.
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This is also the first SSA. I'm pretty surprised no one has realized that Blueside will almost assuredly get their place in the spotlight returned to them (major emphasis on that) when the next SSA is released.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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No one has a gun (figuratively) to villain's head forcing him to save the world. If your villain doesn't want to save the world, don't. You're a villain, it's what you do.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
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Those villains are yours. Not mine, nor anyone elses. The problem remains: Villains have been shoehorned into doing the right thing three times now (five if you include Snaptooth/Lady Winter) with the omnipresent excuse of "it's for the good of the world" or "well you'll be saving your OWN butt so do it anyway." Screw that. It's about damn time redside does some real villainy instead of "I guess I have to if I want to keep going" villainy. |
Go beat up grannies for their purses or whatever it is you do.
Heroes can't wipe out the villains so it's only fair that villains can't take over the world.
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Except that due to the Sf gaps on Villain Side and a general lack of story content from 35-40 on Villain Side, the only advancement opportunities I have are by doing co-op content that completely ignores the fact that I'm not playing as a Hero.|
Originally Posted by Ogi
No one has a gun (figuratively) to villain's head forcing him to save the world. If your villain doesn't want to save the world, don't. You're a villain, it's what you do.
Go beat up grannies for their purses or whatever it is you do. Heroes can't wipe out the villains so it's only fair that villains can't take over the world. |
Yes I could run paper missions but that gets boring and some of the more interesting encounters occur in Story Arcs and Task/Strike Forces.
Obviously some level of Status quo needs to be maintained, but this SSA is intended to change the Status Quo. Because of that the villains are going to score a victory for once.
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I don't think that they said it's going to be done using phasing - it seems that it's going to be a game-wide fact, not an optional choice.
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Originally Posted by Kadmon
and since we know they want to handle that via Phasing
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Except, they kind of do have a gun to every villain's head when it comes to the lore. That gun takes the form of:|
Originally Posted by Ogi
No one has a gun (figuratively) to villain's head forcing him to save the world. If your villain doesn't want to save the world, don't. You're a villain, it's what you do.
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- The Rikti winning.
- The Fifth Column winning.
- The Praetorians winning.
- Snaptooth winning.
- Lady Winter winning.
Until the SSA, Villains could help the Heroes (directly or inadvertently) or not run the content (which is BS no matter how you look at it).
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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No, but it's a safe bet that ceasing to exist would put a serious damper on most anyone's plans. |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You don't know what my characters' best interests are.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
Except that due to the Sf gaps on Villain Side and a general lack of story content from 35-40 on Villain Side, the only advancement opportunities I have are by doing co-op content that completely ignores the fact that I'm not playing as a Hero.
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
And this avoided the RWZ and Cimerora? Did this include the Patron arcs?
Granted I haven't leveled a new villain in a while so things may be different now. But when I was leveling him there wasn't enough content to get from 35-40 without extensive use of papers and repeat runs of Ice Mistral
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I have no problem with villains "winning" in the story arc, however, I do think what you've written is a bit off.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
Except that due to the Sf gaps on Villain Side and a general lack of story content from 35-40 on Villain Side, the only advancement opportunities I have are by doing co-op content that completely ignores the fact that I'm not playing as a Hero.
Yes I could run paper missions but that gets boring and some of the more interesting encounters occur in Story Arcs and Task/Strike Forces. Obviously some level of Status quo needs to be maintained, but this SSA is intended to change the Status Quo. Because of that the villains are going to score a victory for once. |
There is no longer a gap in SFs. You don't have to do co-op content to level. You just have to repeat SFs, which is the same thing you have to do blue side, if you only wish to level through SFs.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Y'know, I always kind of figured Wade was one of Rularuu's aspects. Same headshape, the devotion to release him, and that weird introductory text:|
Originally Posted by Crazy1van
If Wade gains the power of the Well, I count on him being absorbed into Rularuu in some way, probably by becoming one of the unseen Aspects
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The first time with me, Darrin Wade, is always memorable. I've seen things that would make a normal man curl up into the fetal position and rip his eyes out. I've walked on the backs of giants and drunk from the rivers of Avalon. The simple man you see before you is only a single facet of my being. |
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After 35 your storyarc Bonuses start to skyrocket - when my Bane finished Gaussian`s Arc at level 46 it was worth 550K exp - or nearly two bars right there. There`s actually a bigger problem with getting TO 35, than to 40.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
And this avoided the RWZ and Cimerora? Did this include the Patron arcs?
Granted I haven't leveled a new villain in a while so things may be different now. But when I was leveling him there wasn't enough content to get from 35-40 without extensive use of papers and repeat runs of Ice Mistral |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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So it seems my impression is outdated and significant changes have been made that I've overlooked. Probably from the various adjustments in the leveling curve. I'll have to level a new villain and see the differences.
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Players have repeatedly shot down this type of writing in the past. Cut scenes are ok, but nothing relevant can happen in them, it's not enjoyable to watch in the sidelines. A player wants his character's actions to matter, to make a difference, so it makes absolutely no sense for storylines to devolve back into prehistory just because villain storyarcs used to be like that too.|
Originally Posted by Siolfir
So heroes are getting content where they're railroaded through, treated like idiots, and everything falls apart despite any action they do by things happening off-camera. This has happened for years in villain content, so all I can say is "welcome to the club".
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Originally Posted by Mad_Scientist_JC
This is also true. If we roll on comic book logic, this is a big event comic. Villains win for a bit, and then Heroes get the major victory in the end. I'm sure you'll stop us from taking State's power for ourselves and using it to do some awful stuff with it. At least we can be mostly sure that Statesman will go down swinging, even Villains will want it that way. Well, maybe not all, but I want it to be a knock-down, drag-out fight.
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Originally Posted by Issen
"Dammnit writers, throw Heroes a bone!"
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This is usually where Statesman steps in like in the comics, "Enough! Psyche, Manticore, to the bench, now! Everyone else stop sulking and follow me!" He won't do it this time, though. No one to prevent Samuel from returning his hero card and retiring. No one to stop Issen from descending into vigilantism and going on a murdering rampage. No one to restore passion to EvilGeko's routine and make it all more than just one big farm.
Which leaves us the last two arcs, where Positron (as suggested in #4 inside Tilman's head) will attempt to reassemble the Phalanx and put a stop to all the killings. Maybe with a message of hope, by restoring Hero One's sanity. What's left to see is whether that is enough, whether the players will follow him as they followed Statesman, whether he can prove to be as charismatic and successful as his predecessor. Paragon City used to be a wonderful place, and perhaps it can be once again.
For my part, I merely mourn Alexis' death, and I'm hoping against hope that at least this one wrong can be corrected.
I'll argue that killing Malaise was inevitable, not to mention deserved. There was no way of removing him from her mind, and if left unchecked, could cause untold damage.
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It also solved the Malaise/Malaise naming problem - which might make both the Infernals afraid of any new content with them in it |
Originally Posted by Issen
I'll argue that killing Malaise was inevitable, not to mention deserved. There was no way of removing him from her mind, and if left unchecked, could cause untold damage.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Heores don't execute people just because they deserve it, Vigilantes do. Malaise was already defeated, and Sister Psyche went too far. All this bloodthirst is messing with our heads, and everyone seems to be either pretending nothing happened or shrugging their shoulders while muttering Malaise got what was coming to him, as if the rules don't apply to heroes. That's typical vigilante justice, and the reason so few people trust the police nowadays. There are more pressing matters at the moment (like finding the missing nuke), but I sincerely hope Tilman gets a serious reprimand in future arcs, because my character won't let this go.|
Originally Posted by Issen
I'll argue that killing Malaise was inevitable, not to mention deserved. There was no way of removing him from her mind, and if left unchecked, could cause untold damage.
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BTW, anyone else felt weird that Ms. Liberty totally went ballistic on Manticore but completely ignored the fact that our characters were teaming with him when her mom died? I was kinda expecting her to throw a tantrum at us, leading to some sort of confrontational or remorseful response that would end with her running away in rage or tears.
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Sis was also only half in control of herself at that point, so she may not have meant to kill him at all. She was literally losing control. As for Ms. Liberty, it was mostly Manticore's fault, he could stop Alexis from getting kidnapped, his pride made him refuse help to go and save her, and so on. So a pretty good helping of blame is squarely on his shoulders.
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Originally Posted by Issen
I'll argue that killing Malaise was inevitable, not to mention deserved. There was no way of removing him from her mind, and if left unchecked, could cause untold damage.
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While chasing presents, I found a PPD Hard Suit NPC in Peregrine, Specialist Greer, standing on the sidewalk. He's the contact for part 6.|
Originally Posted by Kadmon
But yeah, if that comes to pass, I expect that WWD 6 and 7 will be co-op deals, because I can't imagine too many villains wanting an all-powerful Wade in the mix.
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So, I'd imagine that 6 isn't co-op. Redsiders, time to comb the gutter and everywhere else of Grandville.
As far as NCSoft goes, I have no control over what they do with my postings. That's trivially true. I don't care about them. It's the people who wouldn't bother asking them that I'd like to deter from treating me as a datapoint without my consent.
I'd keep going, but (a) I don't think you have much actual background in human subjects protections, and as such are just sniping for the sake of sniping, and (b) it's a threadjack.
On-topic: I still think the fourth SSA is the worst so far. Too much talking, too little doing. For both heroes and villains.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.