Any chance of superhero stuff being added to the game?
By
Android_5Point9,
Posted on: 2011-12-10 06:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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'Typical Supherhero Genre concepts'? Really?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I think Wing and JB said it well enough. It's not that the genre can't support it, it's that it's being WAY to overdone.
You say "Oh well, this is my concept!" Then everyone looks around and goes, "Yup. Just like the millions of others who think they're awesome, not really typical superhero genre, concepts!" Not saying I don't like a lot of those concepts. There are some really well done ones. But, I recall that time when all I saw when I looked around was vampire and werewolves, and that time it was all D&D style characters...you see those in mass quantities and as someone who came here for the superhero genre, you start to go "sigh" But it's no different than my complaints about shield (which is yes an awesome and fun set)...it's a very little used superhero powerset. There were better and more common sets that could of been done. If one thinks about it, Shield is so rare, why not give the webslinging power set a go, since it's just as common, if not maybe just a little more common. |
How many times can you do 'Fell in a vat of chemicals' or 'rich playboy with tons of money and a genius mind' or 'alien defender of justice come to the Earth' before it gets old and stale as hell?
Heck, they even cross titles freaking easy. Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne. Only differences are one had his parents murdered and hides his identity while the other is a big profile name with a slightly more buff suit.
BOTH are insanely rich, BOTH have genius level intellect and BOTH fight crime.
If we're going for only 'typical' superhero backgrounds, pieces, zones, STUFF, then CoH would get so immensely boring so fast. By all accounts DCO went for the 'typical' approach and sucked for it. Zones include city, city and....more city.
This ALL comes down to opinion, and the other side is trying to foist their opinion as the 'right' one.
To which my response is 'Not on your damn nelly'.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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You and me have VERY different opinions on whether this games is 'suffering' or not, then.|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Quite so. However, it is worth noting that WoW does not allow you to customize the look of your character to the point of making him look like Superman. If you could, and you did, you can very well imagine what the player population would think, say, and do about it.
I suppose we all have our own notions of what constitutes a given genre, but as far as I'm concerned "superheroes" is not a synonym for "anything you can think of," because while superhero comics have featured just about anything and everything you can think of, it is nevertheless dominated by one particular aesthetic motif. You know what it is, so I won't repeat it. Anyone can defy that motif, to the extent to which the game allows it, but when a lot of people do that, the game world starts to lose its strong genre identity. All of this is a by-product of the flexibility inherent in the COH costume creator. It is both a boon and a curse. No other MMO genre has anything like it, and no other MMO genre suffers from such dilution of its core aesthetics as a result. Players of Aion can't make characters that look like Captain Jack Sparrow, no matter how much they may love the Disney movies, and by and large the Aion community is probably much appreciative of this fact. But I suppose that a dozen Captain Jack Sparrows could appear in Paragon City and nobody should find it the least bit odd since the superhero genre can, and is meant to, support any character ever thought of, and in any quantity, without so much as a questioning blink, right? |
WoW and Aion are 'High Fantasy' games. They are ONLY High Fantasy. That is a very narrow, very specific range in one genre.
In a way, so are other 'CoH-a-like' games like DCO, because it is ONLY DC related stuff that goes.
CoH is not any of that. It's 'Superhero/villain' and 'Comicbook'. That is not a narrow spectrum. That is an incredibly broad and diverse spectrum that allows players a massive creative range to do whatever they damn well want. You can make a character look and play how YOU, the player, want. You aren't dictated by having to have the Shoulder Pads of Buff or the Twingle Kicking Boots of +5 to make your character look how you want. There's a reason why CoH's CC is so widely acclaimed, and that's because it gives people freedom.
Choice > Pigeonholing
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I understand you have an axe to grind with the genre, but the purpose of this thread isn't to ask comic book fans to defend their preferences. Of all the forums in the world where a comic book fan should feel comfortable about their tastes, this ought to be among the finest. Please don't back us into the corner.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
'Typical Supherhero Genre concepts'? Really?
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You don't seem to be contributing anything constructive.
For the rest of you, I present a challenge:
A new way of approaching this brainstorming session, and a "Stark" refutation of the notion that Paragon Studios has come anywhere near exhausting the genre. Go to your bookshelves, your drawers, your boxes, and pull out your comic books and graphic novels. Not at home? Go to Marvel.com and download their free weekly digital comic selection.
Now, open them up, and start turning the pages. Don't read, just flip. Grab a pen and paper, and when you see something that moves you, make a note about it. (And don't make notes about anything you don't like. This isn't an exercise in critical reviews.) Spend half an hour, an hour, two hours, whatever you can afford.
Then come back and post away.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
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Ok, one of my comments has been taken entirely the wrong way, it seems. |
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I understand you have an axe to grind with the genre, but the purpose of this thread isn't to ask comic book fans to defend their preferences. Of all the forums in the world where a comic book fan should feel comfortable about their tastes, this ought to be among the finest. Please don't back us into the corner.
You don't seem to be contributing anything constructive. |
I don't dislike Superhero and Villain stuff. I mean, would I *really* play this game if I didn't like them? I've picked up comics in the past, used to watch the original X-Men cartoon every time it was on TV, watched the sleugh of recent (and in most cases really rather good) Hero movies and loved them.
But 'Superhero' stuff is NOT defined only as 'men and women in spandex with Typical backstories and characters'. Saying that the Superhero genre is ONLY stuff like Supes and Justice League and Avengers is what I was aiming the 'lame' at. Because it's also frankly untrue. Superhero is a much broader definition then that, and so it should be.
Thankfully, the Devs also seem to see it that way, and are trying to give us the broadest range of stuff possible.
Now, do the classical parts need some time and love? Hell yes. ALL the legacy parts are in dire need of attention but, sadly, Revamping in a timely manner is one of the areas where the Devs do lose points quite seriously. I men, it'd be nice to have the legacy parts as an option, but also have an option for spandex that doesn't just look like body-paint, for higher-res add-on parts and boots and gloves and...yeah.
More options is good, is my point. Chopping out certain options entirely for not fitting certain peoples opinion is wrong.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I would say that the extraordinarily well-done zones of DCO were something they got right (and with a wonderful sense of scale, too). Indeed, they were one of the things that had me considering sticking around there despite my other problems with the game.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
If we're going for only 'typical' superhero backgrounds, pieces, zones, STUFF, then CoH would get so immensely boring so fast. By all accounts DCO went for the 'typical' approach and sucked for it. Zones include city, city and....more city.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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That wasn't my point, and the last thing I want to do is single anyone out.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Ok, one of my comments has been taken entirely the wrong way, it seems.
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The problem is that in a thread meant to generate ideas for Superhero Packs or zones, you people are arguing. It doesn't matter what you're arguing about. Because you don't seem to be able to argue and generate ideas at the same time. So maybe you should stop arguing and go back to generating ideas.
Do you think Paragon Studios holds meetings like this? How are they supposed to take our feedback into consideration, when our feedback is emotionally charged, but otherwise completely void of substance?
Maybe the reason we can't always get what we want is because we're no good at brainstorming, coming up with ideas, and then agreeing on them. Take a look at what you folks have done with the last couple of pages.
@Captain-Electric � Detective Marvel � The Sapien Spider � Moravec Man � The Old Norseman
Dark-Eyes � Doctor Serpentine � Stonecaster � Skymaiden � The Blue Jaguar
Guide to Altitis � A Comic for New Players � The Lore Project � Intro to extraterrestrials in CoH
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He may have come to a superhero game and because of his allergy to spandex came here to be a VILLAIN! |
Originally Posted by BrandX
The funny thing...you came to a superhero game and think it's "incredibly ******* LAME"
 No really. I find it funny. You came to a game based on playing comic book superheroes and then say it's lame. |
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Average - A new race of aliens arrives on Earth. And Vanguard has you investigate them!
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Advanced - Go back in time and witness the birth of a vampire. Follow her to key moments in her life in order to stop her! A story of intrigue, drama and horror! Blood & Violence... not recommend to solo!
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To create an analogy:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Choice > Pigeonholing
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MLB Online. "The Worlds Most Popular Online Baseball Game".
It's not pigeonholing to want the rules of baseball accurate and the popular teams represented in your baseball MMO before the developers add a full hotdog stand business sim to the game.
Yes, hotdogs are sold at baseball games. No, baseball isn't about selling hotdogs.
And asking for several new brands of hotdogs to be added to the game on the 'MLB Online' forums should get you laughed out on your butt. The fact that it doesn't and that the title has been co-opted by business sim players and the developers have pushed aside the baseball fans in favor of them, speaks volumes to the failure of "MLB Online" as a baseball game.
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There we go!
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I mean, it'd be nice to have the legacy parts as an option, but also have an option for spandex that doesn't just look like body-paint, for higher-res add-on parts and boots and gloves and...yeah.
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So you want more superhero stuff added to the game.
Does this mean all my characters will end up with multiple pouches and no feet that you can see?
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He didn't say Liefeld.
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Originally Posted by Knight_Marshal
So you want more superhero stuff added to the game.
Does this mean all my characters will end up with multiple pouches and no feet that you can see? |
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That also shows how important it is to know how to kick someone in the right way without breaking your ankle. Ouch! |
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
 I hope this post illustrates how important it is to have the right costume pieces when achieving a truly superheroic look. |
I sit in my zen of not being able to do anything right while simultaniously not being able to do anything wrong. Om. -CuppaJo
It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
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And a way to have white tights that don't look see-through, please.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
There we go!
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34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
Oh yea, one last edit:
You should really hang out around virtue's atlas park and look at all of the awesome costume desgins. Pocket D has most people in their SECRET IDENTITY outfits. >.>
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People play aquatic heroes in this game?|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
or sea-horses
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Next thing I know you're gonna tell me some one has a Mind/Storm/Levaithan aquaman clone >.>
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Absolutely do NOT allow us to pick up and throw cars, punch people through walls, cause property damage
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Originally Posted by Dr_MechanoEU
As Tenzhi pointed out...all that 'yawned' at stuff is technically super heroics, especially things like Mythology, isn't Hercules (or Heracles, one is Roman the other Greek...either or is fine) considered the prototypical 'superman'? He's super strong and resiliant beyond normal mortals AND the son of a God.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
Now that's impossible; nobody in this community would ever be sarcastic to make a point!
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-Environmental destruction and interaction
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It's called MAYHEM MISSIONS people.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Costume bits and emotes:
-Linked costume emotes with animated transitions (hoods pulled back, helmets removed/opened, power armor assembled over body). |
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Originally Posted by Kierthos
Add secret IDs.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I must not know the modern comic era. How many hoverboards are there?
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Woud like to see:
[*]Capes that seam into arms. For example, when the character's arms are outstretched, the cape would fill the armpit/forearm area, kinda like a wing.[*]Speaking of avians, a nice hawk/eagle mask. |
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Originally Posted by Xzero45
We could use some more mask options in general. Like a mask like the Green Hornet has, that covers the eyes and nose.
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That's a terrible analogy, actually, because CoH is not about just one thing. That's like saying Super Hero = ONLY a guy in spandex.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
To create an analogy:
MLB Online. "The Worlds Most Popular Online Baseball Game". It's not pigeonholing to want the rules of baseball accurate and the popular teams represented in your baseball MMO before the developers add a full hotdog stand business sim to the game. Yes, hotdogs are sold at baseball games. No, baseball isn't about selling hotdogs. And asking for several new brands of hotdogs to be added to the game on the 'MLB Online' forums should get you laughed out on your butt. The fact that it doesn't and that the title has been co-opted by business sim players and the developers have pushed aside the baseball fans in favor of them, speaks volumes to the failure of "MLB Online" as a baseball game. |
That rules out;
- Power armoured Heroes
-Time Lost/Past/Future Heroes
- Alternate Dimension Heroes
- Barely Human Heroes
- Alien Heroes
And the list goes on.
To use your analogy, CoH is about baseball, the drinks, the hotdogs, the people going, the people who watch it at home, the people who maintain the stands, the stands themsevles, the groundskeepers...etc etc.
It is way, WAY more broad than just one facet of that.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I see superheroes as broad as to include |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
That's a terrible analogy, actually, because CoH is not about just one thing. That's like saying Super Hero = ONLY a guy in spandex.
That rules out; - Power armoured Heroes -Time Lost/Past/Future Heroes - Alternate Dimension Heroes - Barely Human Heroes - Alien Heroes |
-Iron Man, some Sentai/Power Rangers
-Vandal Savage, Cable, Bishop, Inuyasha
-Ichigo Kurosaki, Clea, Amethyst
-Not exactly sure what you mean here, but how about anything catgirl and or werewolf?
-Superman, a good portion of the cast of Tenchi Muyo
I'm sure the list goes on and on. But, hey, Comics Everybody!
Yeah, second from last are decent examples. Or, I dunno, Beast from Xmen? Most of the alien Lanterns from Green Lantern?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Beast is more mutant who used a science experiment to cure himself only to make things worse-ish.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah, second from last are decent examples. Or, I dunno, Beast from Xmen? Most of the alien Lanterns from Green Lantern?
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I don't usually like the spandex look either. A lot of comics have moved away from it. A good number of superhero movies as well ( going more for the leather look. Few exceptions that can't really be done in non-spandexish like Spiderman, though ). I read comics, I watch superhero movies, and I definitely play CoH. So there.|
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Well you've kinda come to the wrong game then, I think. I mean, look at Statesman. Or the Freedom Phalanx in general. Look at the classic COH image below and tell me that the game wasn't intended to represent the classic spandexy superhero genre that you think is so lame. Most folks I know of who think that motif is lame don't read comics, don't go to superhero movies, and don't play COH.
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CoH is intended to INCLUDE that motif. It sure as hell isn't intended to be exclusive to it. It's actually rather obviously intended to include as many "superhero-esque" motifs as possible. And, yeah, that would include anime.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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You do realize, don't you, that you are merely arguing with yourself at this point because you are disputing things nobody here said. That is the definition of a straw man argument.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
But 'Superhero' stuff is NOT defined only as 'men and women in spandex with Typical backstories and characters'. Saying that the Superhero genre is ONLY stuff like Supes and Justice League and Avengers is what I was aiming the 'lame' at.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Because it's also frankly untrue. Superhero is a much broader definition then that, and so it should be.
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I never said, or meant to imply, that the four-color superhero genre, which COH was always designed to represent, ONLY contains heroes in tights like Superman. Since I never said that or intend to argue that, you might as well stop trying to discredit it.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
CoH is intended to INCLUDE that motif. It sure as hell isn't intended to be exclusive to it. It's actually rather obviously intended to include as many "superhero-esque" motifs as possible. And, yeah, that would include anime.
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Now, if you read carefully, nowhere did anyone say that the game should exclusively represent the four-color spandex-wearing superhero. That is an imagined bit of hyperbole invented by those who merely want an easy argument to shoot down.
What I am actually saying is that all those "other" elements should not become more commonplace than in the source material if a proper sense of genre identity is to be preserved. If you believe that is the same as saying they should be eradicated from the game, then you have a reading comprehension problem. And if you think the Marvel or DC universes have an equal number of characters in main title roles that look like Skurge the Executioner as look like The Martian Manhunter, then I feel you are being disingenuous about the bulk of the content in those superhero universes.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
That's the thing - there's already a LOT of options for a classic spandex hero. There's really only so much you can do with it, though. It comes down to "tights and slap on a pattern". There are a range of accessories, but there's no reason a lot of the accessories that go with, say, a more anime style can't also work with a spandex look.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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I absolutely agree with that last sentence.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
That's the thing - there's already a LOT of options for a classic spandex hero. There's really only so much you can do with it, though. It comes down to "tights and slap on a pattern". There are a range of accessories, but there's no reason a lot of the accessories that go with, say, a more anime style can't also work with a spandex look.
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I'm on the fence with regard to the second and third ones, though. I mean, this is in many ways the same challenge all superhero comic book artists face today. They are tasked with designing a new character (or a new costume for an existing character), and they have the fundamental "spandex aesthetic" to fit into, but must still come up with some degree of freshness or originality. I guess that is where real artistry/creativity comes in. To create something brilliant within a set of restrictions, usually genre-driven. Creativity without some imposed limitations is a little too easy, from an artist's perspective anyway.
So if comic book artists can do it, then surely COH players can too!
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
So, basically, what we ALL want is more spandex options that don't look terrible, like the current ones do.
That's a lot simpler.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm sure there are some who want more than that, but for me it's that simple.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
So, basically, what we ALL want is more spandex options that don't look terrible, like the current ones do.
That's a lot simpler. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
By way of for instance I have two words for you: Portal Corporation. That right there opens pandora's box for all sorts of dimensional crossings for all sorts of characters - many of which will probably not fit the "4 color" era mold.
I mean are you really asking the playerbase to limit their concepts to what your idea of a "super-hero" should be? I don't think you are, but you do seem to be bothered by it quite a bit.
Frankly, the primary reason I picked up this game (and continue to play it) is that I am gloriously unlimited in the concepts that I can pick and choose for characters.
Does it really dilute the games generic identity if I decide that my character is from an alien world, or an alternate dimension, or a summoned creature that broke free of its summoner's bonds, or a Cimeroran blacksmith who took up his hammer against Romulus, only to find his home trapped in a time loop created by the Midnighters - a never ending struggle that resets and finds his people right back where they started, driving him to villany on Primal earth in revenge? (That last one I actually run).
Heroism is an act, not a costume. That goes double for villany.
Don't misunderstand, I'm all for adding more options. More toon customization is better, seriously, but I don't buy into the idea that the multitude of options available somehow messes up the game because there are so many options available *other* than classic spandex in 4 color process.
You say "Oh well, this is my concept!" Then everyone looks around and goes, "Yup. Just like the millions of others who think they're awesome, not really typical superhero genre, concepts!"
Not saying I don't like a lot of those concepts. There are some really well done ones. But, I recall that time when all I saw when I looked around was vampire and werewolves, and that time it was all D&D style characters...you see those in mass quantities and as someone who came here for the superhero genre, you start to go "sigh"
But it's no different than my complaints about shield (which is yes an awesome and fun set)...it's a very little used superhero powerset. There were better and more common sets that could of been done.
If one thinks about it, Shield is so rare, why not give the webslinging power set a go, since it's just as common, if not maybe just a little more common.
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