Any chance of superhero stuff being added to the game?
By
Android_5Point9,
Posted on: 2011-12-10 06:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Obviously you need some reading comprehension classes. Not what he said. He said more along the lines, "Totally came to the wrong game, if you think that's lame."|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
So if you don't like spandex you can get out? But that's just your opinion, right?
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That's exactly what CoH was created to be.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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No, I call ANYONE but me dictating how my characters HAVE to look to 'fit in' in a Superhero game to be LAME on a scale of unscalability.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
The funny thing...you came to a superhero game and think it's "incredibly ******* LAME"
No really. I find it funny. You came to a game based on playing comic book superheroes and then say it's lame. Yup, I know that's what gets me to play games. I look at it, think the subject matter is lame and then totally want to pay a monthly fee to play it! \o/ Don't let the way CoH is now fool you. It was created to be a superhero MMO. It even said as much on the website untill less than two years ago when it changed it to "Be a hero!" This doesn't mean you can't mix a few things, but the really funny part of it all...anime style doesn't stop anything from being superheroes. It's a style of art work. Warren Ellis can pull off manga style artwork and still do a superhero story. It's about the look more than anything.And that image of Bass_Awkwards character...it is AWESOME! But the poster had a point in that it looks more WoW and less superhero comic. |
So, because one of my characters doesn't wear their pants on the outside they are, somehow, NOT a super hero? They have super powers? Check. They save lives and such, generic heroing stuff? Check.
Do they wear spandex? Uhm...
"No? Oh, sorry, you're not a Super Hero."
BULL **** ALERT!!
I like Heroes. I like Villains. I like being able to choose how the smegging hell *I* want them to look, without any smeg-headed stupid enforcement on what is and is not a 'Superhero' or villain.
WoW didn't invent fantasy. Fantasy itself is not exempt from being 'Super Hero'y. Hell, they even did a mini-series of Spawn/Witchblade crossover set in a Fantasy variant world! I guess that doesn't count as comic book enough for you?
I find this whole argument utterly bloody stupid. I, personally, don't tend to make spandex characters, with two exceptions BECAUSE IT WORKED FOR THOSE CHARACTERS. If someone then told me that spandex is the ONLY valid 'Superhero' outfit, I would tell them to get the hell out while I laughed at them. End of.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Yes, I see your point.|
Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
I mean this in the nicest way possible, from one flag-waving four-color superhero fan to another, but I'm not sure you're helping. I get why you're irritated. When a comic book hater complains about comic book stuff in our comic book game, I'm just as puzzled. But, stop getting distracted by other people's tastes for a moment, and focus on your own. This is your game too, and by making posts like the above, you're shooting yourself in the foot. You're shooting a lot of people in the foot. Stop arguing, and start brainstorming.
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Praetoria Was a Step In the Right Direction
I think the Praetorian stuff is/was a huge step in the right direction for this game. It didn't exist, except in the form of the Maria Jenkins story arc, back before I stopped playing for a few years. I was thrilled to see how they had expanded upon it when I got back into the game.
So I would definitely petition/encourage the devs to add more like the Praetorian content. Where the supervillains look like supervillains. And the content is, more or less, high tech-y and/or super science-y at its core. Adding some magical/supernatural elements for extra flavor is quite welcome, just so long as it doesn't start to feel like we've stepped into Azeroth on every mission.
I've seen people mention underwater realms, and while I think that has a lot of potential, I'm trying to wrap my head around how you'd make that playable. Same goes for zero-G outer space stuff. I mean, it all sounds very cool, but I think the implementation of it would be bizarre at best.
The Rikti Are Not Alone
So how about a new Galactic Empire out there, perhaps having had run-ins with the Rikti just to tie things together nicely, with its own heroes and villains that comes into contact/conflict with ours. Kinda like Praetoria, but instead of it being an alternate dimension with evil versions of established heroes, it is an entirely new race with both hero and villain enemies, and hero and villain allies. New zones could include alien battlcruisers, or other planets (where gravity is near 1G and the atmosphere is either breathable or survivable with temp powers or something).
I sort of feel that the Rikti are played out since they never really did much with them except have them invade Paragon City a couple of times. Besides, something more like the Shi'Ar or Kree Empires would allow lots of Aliens Among Us storylines and such.
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
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I really agree here. I also wish the devs would survey the players more and seek guidance in the direction this game takes. I don't mean allow us to dictate but more for feedback and ideas. If that had been done then maybe the dev resources could have been better used. We could have improved some of the trials, the new tfs (Sutter and the other one for the red side - don't even rem. the name. It is quite forgettable) and maybe they would have realized having a new starting area (Praetoria) would have been a waste (it looks great and all but isolated the players was a poor idea). I wish they realized having too many zones and not allowing free movement to various areas was a bad idea (thank goodness for side switching. No idea what they were thinking with Praetoria).
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
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Without reading every response I think the OP does make a telling point: The whole "superhero" point of this game is being subsumed into a generic fantasy MMO with the whole incarnate bollocks. I will be soooooooooo happy when it's done and hopefully then we can get back to the proper comicbook traditions with better spandex and space lasers and mad evil geniuses etc. |
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I think spandex being the 'only' valid Superhero outfit to be Lame. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Obviously you need some reading comprehension classes. Not what he said. He said more along the lines, "Totally came to the wrong game, if you think that's lame."
That's exactly what CoH was created to be. |
I find being told having Heroes in Power Armour, in uniform, wearing biker leathers, being a robot is all 'wrong' somehow to be Lame.
I find the overall patronising wording of these replies to be Lame.
Need I go on?
Edit: What CoH was originally created to be is mostly irrelevant. What it IS now is important. Because, frankly, what it WAS was Jack's little pet project domain where what he said was Law and everyone had to damn well like it. Not so these days...Thankfully.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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So then what? If he came to the wrong game, then doesn't that mean he should go to some other game if he doesn't like spandex wearing superheroes? Isn't that what I just repeated in a more snarky fashion? Who needs the reading comprehension classes again?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Obviously you need some reading comprehension classes. Not what he said. He said more along the lines, "Totally came to the wrong game, if you think that's lame."
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That's exactly what CoH was created to be.
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You get really angry, sir.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
No, I call ANYONE but me dictating how my characters HAVE to look to 'fit in' in a Superhero game to be LAME on a scale of unscalability.
So, because one of my characters doesn't wear their pants on the outside they are, somehow, NOT a super hero? They have super powers? Check. They save lives and such, generic heroing stuff? Check. Do they wear spandex? Uhm... "No? Oh, sorry, you're not a Super Hero." BULL **** ALERT!! I like Heroes. I like Villains. I like being able to choose how the smegging hell *I* want them to look, without any smeg-headed stupid enforcement on what is and is not a 'Superhero' or villain. WoW didn't invent fantasy. Fantasy itself is not exempt from being 'Super Hero'y. Hell, they even did a mini-series of Spawn/Witchblade crossover set in a Fantasy variant world! I guess that doesn't count as comic book enough for you? I find this whole argument utterly bloody stupid. I, personally, don't tend to make spandex characters, with two exceptions BECAUSE IT WORKED FOR THOSE CHARACTERS. If someone then told me that spandex is the ONLY valid 'Superhero' outfit, I would tell them to get the hell out while I laughed at them. End of. |
Always Angry! All the Time!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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They all forgot that the Circle of Thorns was a group that's been with this game since the beginning; a group of sorcerers and magic users dressed up like they were going to some D&D cosplay (or maybe a heavy metal concert...). By their own words, that group is incongruous with the entire notion of superheroes and therefore should have never been included!|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Edit: What CoH was originally created to be is mostly irrelevant. What it IS now is important. Because, frankly, what it WAS was Jack's little pet project domain where what he said was Law and everyone had to damn well like it. Not so these days...Thankfully.
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Oh yeah, and all those demons you run into, especially villainside. And Dark Astoria. Seriously.
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Yup. Oh, and the Midnighters, can't have all that magic running around ruining things.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
They all forgot that the Circle of Thorns was a group that's been with this game since the beginning; a group of sorcerers and magic users dressed up like they were going to some D&D cosplay (or maybe a heavy metal concert...). By their own words, that group is incongruous with the entire notion of superheroes and therefore should have never been included!
Oh yeah, and all those demons you run into, especially villainside. And Dark Astoria. Seriously. |
Oop, better get rid of Cimerora, that's all swords and monsters, right?
Croatoa, can't have witches and mythical creatures and redcaps and-
Yeah. Someone, please, drop the idiot ball already.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Indeed. Besides, I certainly wouldn't wanna be the one to go up to War Witch and tell her she's doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah. Someone, please, drop the idiot ball already.
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Pft, forget War Witch, someone want to try telling Infernal he's 'in the wrong game'?
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Indeed. Besides, I certainly wouldn't wanna be the one to go up to War Witch and tell her she's doing it wrong.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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LOL yeah right! Uhm, no he's doing just fine where he is!|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Pft, forget War Witch, someone want to try telling Infernal he's 'in the wrong game'?
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Seriously though, the amount of ignorance with respect to the history of super hero comic books that's been displayed in this thread has been rather amazing to me. If they even knew just a little bit about it, they might realize how silly is this entire subject.
I laughed when I first saw this thread's title. More superhero stuff... for a superhero game. Right, and can my book have pages in it too, please? Oh yes, and I'd like my water to be wet, while you're at it.
Like I said. Idiot Ball. Serious case thereof.
I'm going to bed, before I have to vomit oil on some foolish fleshlings.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Apparently robots, clones, particle cannons, power armor, and psychics are also generic fantasy MMO stuff as well. Or maybe it's the Well of the Furies, which corresponds to no classic superhero tropes about enigmatic artifacts and/or entities granting various cosmic powers. (Like Cosmic Cubes, Infinity Gauntlets, Mother Boxes, The Source, Galactus, Cosmic Control Rods, old wizards in caves babbling SHAZAM, etecetera, etcetera, etcetera...) Anyway, since scientific dystopias and robots and vast cosmic powers are apparently also standard fantasy tropes either that idiot ball is astoundingly large and heavy or we're going to have become City of Only Batmen and Captains America.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yup. Oh, and the Midnighters, can't have all that magic running around ruining things.
Oop, better get rid of Cimerora, that's all swords and monsters, right? Croatoa, can't have witches and mythical creatures and redcaps and- Yeah. Someone, please, drop the idiot ball already. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I never heard valid. I heard "to many of fantasy setting being the norm in game" |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I think spandex being the 'only' valid Superhero outfit to be Lame.
I find being told having Heroes in Power Armour, in uniform, wearing biker leathers, being a robot is all 'wrong' somehow to be Lame. I find the overall patronising wording of these replies to be Lame. Need I go on? Edit: What CoH was originally created to be is mostly irrelevant. What it IS now is important. Because, frankly, what it WAS was Jack's little pet project domain where what he said was Law and everyone had to damn well like it. Not so these days...Thankfully. |
It's not that it isnt valid, it's that it seems to be what the majority go for.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
The Rikti Are Not Alone
So how about a new Galactic Empire out there, perhaps having had run-ins with the Rikti just to tie things together nicely, with its own heroes and villains that comes into contact/conflict with ours. Kinda like Praetoria, but instead of it being an alternate dimension with evil versions of established heroes, it is an entirely new race with both hero and villain enemies, and hero and villain allies. New zones could include alien battlcruisers, or other planets (where gravity is near 1G and the atmosphere is either breathable or survivable with temp powers or something). I sort of feel that the Rikti are played out since they never really did much with them except have them invade Paragon City a couple of times. Besides, something more like the Shi'Ar or Kree Empires would allow lots of Aliens Among Us storylines and such. |
Um... how much of the Rikti content have you actually played through?
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Apparently not enough? |
Originally Posted by Scythus
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Um... how much of the Rikti content have you actually played through? |
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
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Yeah... start playing through the RWZ arcs and read EVERYTHING. A galactic empire they are not.
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Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Apparently not enough?
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I can't really say I've been a huge fan of all that stuff. Croatoa was definitely a waste of a zone for me. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't add that stuff now and then. I expect it, and welcome it to a certain degree. It doesn't have to be City of Captain America, but it shouldn't be City of Swords and Sorcery either (that's called World of Warcraft, btw). Speaking of which:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yup. Oh, and the Midnighters, can't have all that magic running around ruining things.
Oop, better get rid of Cimerora, that's all swords and monsters, right? Croatoa, can't have witches and mythical creatures and redcaps and- |
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
WoW didn't invent fantasy.
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I suppose we all have our own notions of what constitutes a given genre, but as far as I'm concerned "superheroes" is not a synonym for "anything you can think of," because while superhero comics have featured just about anything and everything you can think of, it is nevertheless dominated by one particular aesthetic motif. You know what it is, so I won't repeat it. Anyone can defy that motif, to the extent to which the game allows it, but when a lot of people do that, the game world starts to lose its strong genre identity.
All of this is a by-product of the flexibility inherent in the COH costume creator. It is both a boon and a curse. No other MMO genre has anything like it, and no other MMO genre suffers from such dilution of its core aesthetics as a result. Players of Aion can't make characters that look like Captain Jack Sparrow, no matter how much they may love the Disney movies, and by and large the Aion community is probably much appreciative of this fact. But I suppose that a dozen Captain Jack Sparrows could appear in Paragon City and nobody should find it the least bit odd since the superhero genre can, and is meant to, support any character ever thought of, and in any quantity, without so much as a questioning blink, right?
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
Keep in mind, I made my constructive list, I feel I've earned some rant time.
I'm just going to go point form to state some of my feelings what the thread seems to be dealing with in the last few pages. I'm doing it this way because the bugged forum log in has eaten my post twice now.
-I don't personally feel CoH is the best comic book superhero game it could be. It's a little on a generic side and lacks the focus of a strong 'vision'. I feel it doesn't cover some important superhero-ey fundamentals and it should. I also feel those should take priority.
-Thor and Dr. Strange may be examples of fantasy in the superhero genre, but they were heavily adapted to work within a the superhero setting. Nowhere in myth will you find Donald Blake. Thor fought radiation mutants just as often as he battled frost giants. If you look at Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes as an example, they went to Asgard as part of a multi-part episode, but they didn't spend a whole season there, and every second episode wasn't 'The Thor Show'. The key is treating each special corner of the universe as just that; one corner. The mainstay was guys in tights fighting crime/aliens/robots in the modern world.
-With that said, I think CoH leans on the magic angle a little too often. Say what you will, but the Well and the entirely of Incarnates is magic. Magic origin used to be defied at character creation in part as "being empowered by extra-dimensional entities". Is that not the situation with the Well in a nutshell?
-I think First Ward did it right. You had some magic elements tempered with guys in power armor, some very non-mystical 'ghosts' and some legitimate ghosts thrown in for good measure.
-I think Croatoa got it wrong. My heroes feel like they're intruding on another game that just happens to have a few modern building models used instead of a village. Worse, and this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, you don't accomplish anything the entire time you're there. No grand scheme thwarted, no barrier between this world and the spirit world repaired. Place is still full of ghosts and witches. You just kind of go there, fight a bunch of nameless fantasy enemies, maintain the status-quo and then walk away.
-I don't think the game being a catch-all for every single genre is a strength, and doesn't make this a better superhero game. If you want an 'anything-goes' online game, what about Second Life? Also, to say superheroes are all inclusive is to demonstrate you don't respect or recognize them as a genre at all.
-I realize most people play this game not because they even like superheroes or comic books. They're just here for a casual-friendly MMO with a flexible character creator. And that saddens me those people seem to be the majority in my observation.
-I don't care for the fact people try to inject/project other properties/universes into this one. This is not WoW, may Rao deliver me from the flood of Night Elves I see every time a new weapon set comes out. Nor is this the World of Darkness. I mean, come on, the very notion of the Masquerade being needed becomes moot when two of the most famous people in the world are known to be nearly 120 years old, one person in six can fly and we can clone all the blood to satisfy the special needs every Undead American could ever require.
-I tolerate that is how some people want to play. But tolerance is not the same as approving or condoning.
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I really like to see some new environments like the moonbase too and amongst others too.
Space ship/station Exterior
They could make it look like Ouroboros except of the orangy sky, change it to space, could even toss in Earth / Moon or Mars in the distant background.
Space ship/station Interior
This could be high tech looking tunnels like what you get in Praetoria door missions. Except that the walls/roofs are made of glass which shows space as a distant background.
Deep Sea Base / Interior
Same as above.
I will miss you City of Heroes..
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I've been waiting for an opportunity to bring this up again. Some characters may wear fake animal ears, but others have them naturally, and are currently restricted to only a couple of hairstyles (or cheating with masks) that completely conceal the human ears. We need more concealing hairstyles, or preferably a way to have animal ears only.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
ears nonsensically present when they're supposed to be covered
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Pretty much, yup. |
Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
But I suppose that a dozen Captain Jack Sparrows could appear in Paragon City and nobody should find it the least bit odd since the superhero genre can, and is meant to, support any character ever thought of, and in any quantity, without so much as a questioning blink, right?
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By way of for instance I have two words for you: Portal Corporation. That right there opens pandora's box for all sorts of dimensional crossings for all sorts of characters - many of which will probably not fit the "4 color" era mold.
I mean are you really asking the playerbase to limit their concepts to what your idea of a "super-hero" should be? I don't think you are, but you do seem to be bothered by it quite a bit.
Frankly, the primary reason I picked up this game (and continue to play it) is that I am gloriously unlimited in the concepts that I can pick and choose for characters.
Does it really dilute the games generic identity if I decide that my character is from an alien world, or an alternate dimension, or a summoned creature that broke free of its summoner's bonds, or a Cimeroran blacksmith who took up his hammer against Romulus, only to find his home trapped in a time loop created by the Midnighters - a never ending struggle that resets and finds his people right back where they started, driving him to villany on Primal earth in revenge? (That last one I actually run).
Heroism is an act, not a costume. That goes double for villany.
Don't misunderstand, I'm all for adding more options. More toon customization is better, seriously, but I don't buy into the idea that the multitude of options available somehow messes up the game because there are so many options available *other* than classic spandex in 4 color process.
Without reading every response I think the OP does make a telling point: The whole "superhero" point of this game is being subsumed into a generic fantasy MMO with the whole incarnate bollocks. I will be soooooooooo happy when it's done and hopefully then we can get back to the proper comicbook traditions with better spandex and space lasers and mad evil geniuses etc.
Actually i guess you're referring to the Praetorian iTrials where you fight hordes of typical fantasy tropes like robots, clones, troopers in power armor and scientifically augmented psychics. Maybe if Neuron and Anti-Matter were mad evil geniuses with space stations, clones, orbital particle cannons, and giant robots we could get away from this darned fantasy focus.
Edit: Rereading Scarlet Shocker's post and my reply i'm not actually sure Scarlet Shocker has even played the game or read anything about the current storylines. Other than the Well of the Furies being some sort of quasi-technomantic cosmic power source almost nothing about the current line of Incarnate Trials is fantasy themed. They actually have far less mysticism and mythology than the original CoH setting.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...