So I'm an Incarnate now, right....?
By
Amanita,
Posted on: 2011-12-07 08:38 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
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Have been on one MoM which succeeded, out of three tries. Have to say it, MoM is right on up there with Keyes as far as unpleasantness. Not AS BAD as Keyes - I'll grant you that much, but almost as bad. I have no intention of trying it again for a long time. If its not being locked in the hospital for an eternity of time "for your own safety," [pfffft] its NO hospital at all. Who comes up with this tripe? Seriously. |
I would disagree with that assessment, MoM is easy -much easier than TPN. I joined a PUG league shortly after the new trials went live. None of us had run either trial before, and we decided to start with a MoM, and breezed through it on our second try. That same league then decided to try TPN and failed 3 times before giving up.
Later that same day, I ran the MoM again, telling those who hadn't run it before what to expect and do, and again, we completed the trial without any trouble. Joined a TPN again, failed again.
EDIT: Herp Derp, reading comprehension fail. Deleted some stuff
I was hoping the devs would have learned about the over use of gimmicks and heavily scripted fights from the feedback that lead to changes in Keyes etc... No it seems they have applied extra layers of gimmicks and scripts on the trial sandwich.
I don't like extra layers of gimmicks and scripts so I will stick to the BAF and LAM for the foreseeable future.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I explained how to fix it so that everyone wants to run all of the trials.
You attach a certain Aspect of the Incarnate to each trial. If you require 8 salvage parts to get say Lore - then running that Aspect trial will absolutely guarantee you fill it in 8 runs.
If you want to run OTHER trials to fill that Aspect you get random rolls.
Then people will WANT TO RUN ALL OF THE TRIALS. I personally have no desire to ever run a trial.
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I think of it kinda like how Bank of America got curbstomped over the debit card fee thing: instead of going "sorry, our bad" and learning from their mistake, they withdrew that fee, then immediately adjourned to a conference room somewhere to try and figure out a NEW fee which hopefully no one would notice.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I was hoping the devs would have learned about the over use of gimmicks and heavily scripted fights from the feedback that lead to changes in Keyes etc... No it seems they have applied extra layers of gimmicks and scripts on the trial sandwich.
I don't like extra layers of gimmicks and scripts so I will stick to the BAF and LAM for the foreseeable future. |
The developers here are doing the same thing: "Wow, they hated Keyes and are refusing to run it! Ok, cue plan B: we'll fix Keyes but put these mechanics somewheres else, where they won't be noticed."
Yeah, good luck with that. BoA's curbstomping continues, and people in CoX will continue to avoid content they dislike.
Attempts to say "Well, you're running BAF and LAM too much, so we're nerfing those rewards, or removing them entirely" will not mean people flock to the new trials; it'll just get the difficult content ignored. I say this because even now, there is someone[s] in a conference-room somewhere trying to float this exact strategy, to which I say: DON'T. For all our sakes.
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I'm not Golden Girl. |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
If you're being sarcastic, you should add a smiley or something, or people will seriously agree with you.
 Eco |
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Yeah, my MM won't be in any trials, even though I'd love to play the BAF prisoner escape sequence with him. Looking forward to I22 for that.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I got sick of my MM generally getting every short and sticky end of the sticks in Trials.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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I disagree. People would be forced to run other trials and not run them because of choice and desire. Any move in this direction in limiting the paid players choice is a non starter IMHO.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
I explained how to fix it so that everyone wants to run all of the trials.
You attach a certain Aspect of the Incarnate to each trial. If you require 8 salvage parts to get say Lore - then running that Aspect trial will absolutely guarantee you fill it in 8 runs. If you want to run OTHER trials to fill that Aspect you get random rolls. Then people will WANT TO RUN ALL OF THE TRIALS. I personally have no desire to ever run a trial. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Since the MM incarnate level buff and making the single target buffs into group buffs, BAF is not terribly bad on a MM. |
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Yeah, my MM won't be in any trials, even though I'd love to play the BAF prisoner escape sequence with him. Looking forward to I22 for that.
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Now, you couldn't pay me to ever run a LAM again.
Why is it every time the devs introduce a TF or trial that requires a bit more coordination and thought than hitting 1234-1234-1234 people start ******** about it?
If you got a frothy or elitist league leader the problem lies with them not with the trial. There really isn't anything in this game, aside from Master runs (and even then) that needs that much of a flawless execution for it to succeed. No reason to get so worked up about it. Yes sometimes trials fail. That happens when stuff is new and people are unfamilliar with it.
MoM might have just supplanted Keyes as my favorite trial, TPN completes the top 3.
Good job devs. Keep them coming.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Once they fix some of the bugs the trials should be fine.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Why is it every time the devs introduce a TF or trial that requires a bit more coordination and thought than hitting 1234-1234-1234 people start ******** about it?
If you got a frothy or elitist league leader the problem lies with them not with the trial. There really isn't anything in this game, aside from Master runs (and even then) that needs that much of a flawless execution for it to succeed. No reason to get so worked up about it. Yes sometimes trials fail. That happens when stuff is new and people are unfamilliar with it. MoM might have just supplanted Keyes as my favorite trial, TPN completes the top 3. Good job devs. Keep them coming. |
Personally I'm more looking forward to the DA lvl 50+ content. They can keep THAT coming. Counting the upcoming Diabolique one, we have enough trials for now.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Well, one of the problems that I think people have with it is that success can be easily impeded by just one or two people. It becomes quite frustrating when you know what your job is and you're doing it quite well to have but your efforts are undermined by someone that simply hasn't paid attention to instructions. It will take time for some to catch on to what needs to be done. Unfortunately, the first taste is often the only taste many will take if it sours them to the experience.
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Why is it every time the devs introduce a TF or trial that requires a bit more coordination and thought than hitting 1234-1234-1234 people start ******** about it?
If you got a frothy or elitist league leader the problem lies with them not with the trial. There really isn't anything in this game, aside from Master runs (and even then) that needs that much of a flawless execution for it to succeed. No reason to get so worked up about it. Yes sometimes trials fail. That happens when stuff is new and people are unfamilliar with it. MoM might have just supplanted Keyes as my favorite trial, TPN completes the top 3. Good job devs. Keep them coming. |
The seem to be trying to introduce variation into the game system with different things to do/watch out for in each trial. The TPN trial features some 'don't kill X and Y' mechanics.
I don't think this one will become super popular, but it provides a different approach for those that want to do it.
The whole 'a few can ruin it for all' portion is a little troublesome for relying on PuGs though, so I doubt it will see a whole lot of playthroughs from me. Looking forward to what is available for solo/small team incarnates myself.
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MoM is one of the best Trials so far, and it's pretty easy to complete with a normal league.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I agree with this all the way. I brought a nice chunk of wakies and quickly crafted a tier 3 barrier for double rez. But halfway through the trial I realized we were sleep walking it so I just switched back to rebirth. But then again it's not easy when it first came out! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE MAKER IT EASIER EASIER EASIER! I can't just attack and do whatever I want in it. Soooooo hard!
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
MoM is one of the best Trials so far, and it's pretty easy to complete with a normal league.
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I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
Havent run the trial yet, but I like the idea of having to avoid killing civilians. For years this game has made us to used to our "invincible npc's". The idea that a loose blast could be fatal is a great dynamic and I hope we see it elsewhere. Perhaps if this mechanic has showed up in a few standard missions first, people would be more used to it in the trials.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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They could put it in the game proper, with every civilian NPC. Every time we accidentally kil one, we lose a level. That would sort out the men from the boys.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Havent run the trial yet, but I like the idea of having to avoid killing civilians. For years this game has made us to used to our "invincible npc's". The idea that a loose blast could be fatal is a great dynamic and I hope we see it elsewhere. Perhaps if this mechanic has showed up in a few standard missions first, people would be more used to it in the trials.
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Villains would gain a level.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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It's not that the trials are impossible, per se. Otherwise Alpha wouldn't have the abilities he does.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
After having watched so many people struggle to participate meaningfully in every trial [but BAF] as MMs, I have to say that I think there should be a solo Incarnate path if ONLY to allow MMs to progress as Incarnates.
If you are a MM it is nothing but awful punishment to try to do things like Lambda. its almost like someone decided they hate MMs and wants to punish them! Just ridiculous. My MMs are waiting for that solo Incarnate content to come down the pike, I can tell you. Till then they are running no trials but the occasional BAF. EDIT: Well ,come to think of it they might do ok on UG. I've seen MMs do well on that one.... that's it though, BAF and UG for my MMs. |
They ARE incredibly frustrating, however.
In BAF it's a case of getting picked off by the tower through cover, or my pets hanging around slack-jawed in the open and then getting pinged by the towers themselves. When you're having to grind into cover for Nightstar and Siege, that's a real problem, especially given the general player crush, especially when trying to re-summon.
Lambda is frustrating on multiple accounts. First of all you have the crazy race through the corridors. Since no one ever bothers to kill the mobs down here, my poor pets are left trailing aggro behind me. And when they all die? Next hit tends to be a bye-bye for me, even with defence softcapped and Barrier shielding. Because Praetorians have insane accuracy.
Then it's back outside and, guess what? Marauder bounces everywhere leading to...yup, more aggro of the mobs that pop up. And if I need to re-summon? Oh, you're too far from Marauder! You get shot by artillery! lol!
Yes, being fair the artillery does negligible damage. But it has a horrible habit of knocking me and pets around like bowling pins, meaning re-summoning takes all the longer.
And as for Keyes...well. That was the last trial I ran. True, it was the old variant. But the concept was what hamstrung the fun entirely for me.
So, I can't catch Antimatter with stray AoE, because that would be very bad. What is it Bots/Traps does in spades? Oh, thats right; AoE. Better keep my pets on passive then. Oh, what's this? Pulse that autohits? Oh well, I should be fine, I have bodygu-ohcrap.
And look, we have to kill mobs while praying like Antimatter doesnt show up, to dive into the middle of my AoE field. Can I use bodyguar- no, haha, how silly that would be.
I just gave up after that. I GET that iTrials are meant to be challenging content. I can live with that. But 'Challenging' is not the same as 'Totally hamstrung and made to traipse after all the other ATs who can blast away with impunity and feel like a 3rd string fiddle all the way'. That's called 'Not Fun'.
So, I just gave up on it. C'est la vie.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I'm pretty happy to see this. It rewards versatile, well-rounded heroes who develop high capability in many fields, in this case having both good single-target and AoE damage. By all means, keep punishing those who subscribe to the outdated mentality of being good in only one thing and outsourcing everything else to their teammates under the guise of "teamwork". I had a great laugh when Lambda came out and the people who scoffed at defense builds were splattered all over the warehouse floor while I soloed crates on my defender, this might be the next best thing so far.
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Did you actually READ my post?|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I disagree. People would be forced to run other trials and not run them because of choice and desire. Any move in this direction in limiting the paid players choice is a non starter IMHO.
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If you run the Trial tied to that aspect you get a guaranteed path to get the Aspect in the fastest manner. If you run other trials you get the exact system in place now.
So what do you disagree about?
I like the trials. They're pretty fun.
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And you do that on an Electric Melee character how, exactly?
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn
I'm pretty happy to see this. It rewards versatile, well-rounded heroes who develop high capability in many fields, in this case having both good single-target and AoE damage.
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It's not avoiding them that's the issue for me, its being forced to avoid being in melee range.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
Avoiding the pink (not blue) patches of death is fairly easy, I found.
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My Corrs just hop around and hang back at range, being a force multiplier for a league of 12-24 people while blasting away. Basically, wildly more useful to any league than any 1 melee character could ever be.
My Melees have to run in and out of combat constantly and stand there twiddling their thumbs waiting for the patches to disappear.
Apex, Keyes, TPN, MoM - all of these have area denial tactics that basically penalize melee characters for the simple fact of being melees.
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I haven't done TPN yet but as someone who still plays villains sometimes I object to a "don't kill the civilians" mechanic on principle.|
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
They could put it in the game proper, with every civilian NPC. Every time we accidentally kil one, we lose a level. That would sort out the men from the boys.
Villains would gain a level. Eco |
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Originally Posted by rsclark
And you do that on an Electric Melee character how, exactly?
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Of course, if everyone brings their AoE-focused farm character, then you're screwed, aren't you?
Of course, if most of the rest of the game wasn't AoE-focused, you wouldn't have that problem.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Yep read it and clearly misunderstood. I apologize.
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
Did you actually READ my post?
If you run the Trial tied to that aspect you get a guaranteed path to get the Aspect in the fastest manner. If you run other trials you get the exact system in place now. So what do you disagree about? |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
The problem is that even if you want to rez someone, they're under a purple patch. Or stacked purple patches! I notice these patches also grow after time. Nice!
I had my Emp on one of these, and she did what she could. We had a rule that only people with Ressurrect or Howling Twilight or other such rezzes could accept Desdemona's rezzes, so we could pick others up. This seemed to work well, but the trial still failed due to other factors.