Discussion: Issue 21 Special Update: Media Blitz - December 6, 2011 [Live] - Build 2160.201111172202
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2011-12-06 10:30 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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I agree, I don't mind the criticism but it's the way it's done, to me at least.|
Originally Posted by EricHough
It may be that they changed things without updating the patch notes - however, it is perfectly valid to level criticisms based on the published patch notes. Whether or not you agree with Snow Globes criticisms of the TPN trial it is absurd to tell folks to stop being critical because they MIGHT have made changes and forgot to tell us.
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And looking back it wasn't really even Snow_Globe that gets me irritated; just some of the others combined into, "Devs are stupid and are lazy and not taking our feedback seriously!" category with the way I read them.
I don't mind saying, "uh, devs you didn't push TPN at first because you were doing changes to it supposedly; what happened to that?" and not, "devs haven't listened to our feedback, I'm never providing feedback again!"
That's all I'm saying; if I came across as something else I apologize.
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Outside of the dedicated populace on Virtue that likes to run novel things once in awhile (e.g. Underground), all I really see being ran still is BAF/LAMs, and occasionally Keyes. I have not yet even seen an Underground form on Freedom or Justice.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The general populace will do exactly what they do now with the Keyes (though this is now getting run thanks to the changes on November 10) & Underground Trials: Players will avoid the new trials because they aren't worth the hassle. Players are STILL avoiding the Underground on Triumph and I don't see that changing.
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Often I will simply run whatever is being formed because well, when iTrials take 12-16 people minimum to run well, you usually just have to go with the flow given the amount of people online, but still, 9/10 trials (or more) is going to be BAF/LAM/some Keyes, I suspect. Keyes is easy enough these days if 'at least a few' people know what they are doing. Underground however ventures into the opposite side of the spectrum in that a few 'not knowing what they are doing' can fail the league for everyone. TPN continues this trend.
I'll run an Underground, MoM, or TPN 'once in awhile' to try something different (if I see someone I know runs them regularly is forming), but reward wise, my best investment still seems to be running Speed LAMS and BAFs, because, let's face it, I mostly just want the rewards (e.g. teaming with 23 strangers isn't my ideal teaming situation), and the potential chance of failure on those three trials is still pretty high. Not to mention all the tedious gimmicks those trials feature.
The best suggestion I have seen so far to increase the frequency of the other trials being ran is a sort of Weekly Strike Target system for the iTrials.
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I've run a number of TPNs and one MoM, and MoM is the easier the two by far.
TPN isn't difficult as long as you assign roles, yes, the civies do hit rather disturbingly hard (Cole's empowerment now works on the average joe?!), and Maelstrom's attack can OHKO people. But having been "Marked for Death" a few times, I never got killed when I backed off.
As for the no AoEs, I think it's actually a GOOD thing. The idea is to wean people off of the AoE Spam-fest that takes up a significant portion of the game otherwise, and while the ST-attacks-only is a pain in the ***, it wasn't unmanageable. Again, once people get it down in about a week or so, I think they'll have it. Although the 8-minute challenge badge has me gawking at how that's even remotely possible.
As for MoM, the "anti-melee" claim seems a bit far-fetched. At no point did my KM/WP Scrapper completely lose the ability to attack except for a few occasions. As long as folks spread out during the World of Anguish, it's no real issue.
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It's a nice idea, but no way am I going to spec a second build for any of my AoE centric characters. My Elec/Rad Corruptor (with procs in every debuff) and Electric/Willpower Brute are going to have next to nothing for attack they can use until they are inside the building.|
Originally Posted by Issen
As for the no AoEs, I think it's actually a GOOD thing. The idea is to wean people off of the AoE Spam-fest that takes up a significant portion of the game otherwise, and while the ST-attacks-only is a pain in the ***, it wasn't unmanageable.
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But hey, it's variation for those who want it, which is a good thing.
But given the high risk of failure, and general tediousness of the trial, I plan on just running it until I see a success and then as infrequently as possible thereafter. As it stands with the previous options for iTrials, I 'might' run an Underground if a few qualifications are met:
A) I'm on a character that only needs a rare
B) I know the leader who is forming the trial
C) It looks like a good chance of success (given the random people involed in the trial)
If these qualifications are not met, I'm running a BAF or LAM (maaaaybe a Keyes, but as a last choice, only).
These new iTrials all seem designed for the type of player who constantly complained about how easy the game was. I suppose I am the portion of the playerbase that always enjoyed the ease of winning about this game.
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well ran a MoM with my earth/emp controller,we succeeded,then ran a TPN,got past where we got the 60 threads,but had some civilian killed so we failed.
While the DEVS have no control over this,
I am already seeing some exclusions of team members when recruiting. teams are being made with +3 chars only. So until the new incarnate slots are avail,the IXP these give are mostly useless.
I do see this as not very PUG friendly.
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Not one bleeping thing in this release that I can use or applies to any of my characters.
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I actually saw an Incarnated Titan Weapon character in a TPN run last night. I've known for years that it's always been relatively easy to PL characters from 1 to 50 in this game if you know the tricks but it still always amazes me when I see an example of it in the flesh. |
Originally Posted by Gearsinger
I'm personally amused that they released and AoE-heavy melee set with longish activation times at the same time as these new trials. I'm sure there will be a lot of frustrated newbie Incarnate titan weaponeers.
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Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
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To be fair, I saw an Incarnated Titan Weapons character in the game...last week. Keep in mind, a few people got the set early, so your particular experience may have been one of those.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I actually saw an Incarnated Titan Weapon character in a TPN run last night. I've known for years that it's always been relatively easy to PL characters from 1 to 50 in this game if you know the tricks but it still always amazes me when I see an example of it in the flesh.
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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SOO True Ion- even the successful UGTs I've been on with you, I've muttered quite loudly at getting a couple Astrals after taking down that Regen Walker....
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Me too!
Hooray more content! And thanks devs for the mid-trial reward for the UG  |
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
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It'll definitely be a nice addition. |
Originally Posted by Benchpresser
SOO True Ion- even the successful UGTs I've been on with you, I've muttered quite loudly at getting a couple Astrals after taking down that Regen Walker....
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@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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Originally Posted by Freitag
Patch notes for build 2160.201111172202.1.
Super Group Bases
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Was counselling required?
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@ Purgatorio
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While I can understand your frustation given your character types, that not a fault of the Trial. I've learned very quickly that a TPN is a very blitzkreg-style Trial. You have to move fast. You also learn that you need to assign roles. For example, your controller or your brute would be perfect for the indoor portions. It just means you have to be more organized as to the division of roles.|
Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
It's a nice idea, but no way am I going to spec a second build for any of my AoE centric characters. My Elec/Rad Corruptor (with procs in every debuff) and Electric/Willpower Brute are going to have next to nothing for attack they can use until they are inside the building.
But hey, it's variation for those who want it, which is a good thing. But given the high risk of failure, and general tediousness of the trial, I plan on just running it until I see a success and then as infrequently as possible thereafter. As it stands with the previous options for iTrials, I 'might' run an Underground if a few qualifications are met: A) I'm on a character that only needs a rare B) I know the leader who is forming the trial C) It looks like a good chance of success (given the random people involed in the trial) If these qualifications are not met, I'm running a BAF or LAM (maaaaybe a Keyes, but as a last choice, only). These new iTrials all seem designed for the type of player who constantly complained about how easy the game was. I suppose I am the portion of the playerbase that always enjoyed the ease of winning about this game. |
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Originally Posted by MadHobbit
well ran a MoM with my earth/emp controller,we succeeded,then ran a TPN,got past where we got the 60 threads,but had some civilian killed so we failed.
While the DEVS have no control over this, I am already seeing some exclusions of team members when recruiting. teams are being made with +3 chars only. So until the new incarnate slots are avail,the IXP these give are mostly useless. I do see this as not very PUG friendly. |
Same thing will happen here with TPN and MoM. It'll take some time, but demanding +3 characters won't make the trials any easier.
I ran the TPN trial for the first time today. I have to say it was awesome.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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I didn't get a chance to give any feedback they can ignore before now, so let me get my futile two cents in here...|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The last feedback they got on the TPN was Novemeber 10, 2011 (Feedback: TPN Campus Incarnate Trial)
The overwhelming feedback at the time was that the TPN was a confused mess that needed to be reworked. Does that, in any shape or form, sound remotely positive? The auto-kill mechanics, the trial literally bypasses the 1-shot code (from civilians no less), to the numerous ways to screw up the trial means that no matter what rewards the trial gives out that it isn't worth my time to form. Even those that like the trial say it was a confusing mess. The general populace will do exactly what they do now with the Keyes (though this is now getting run thanks to the changes on November 10) & Underground Trials: Players will avoid the new trials because they aren't worth the hassle. Players are STILL avoiding the Underground on Triumph and I don't see that changing. So, given all that, why the heck are they releasing these pancake-fests without changes? Are the developer's that masochistic? |
Making itrials that are very difficult to complete that give virtually no reward when said trial fails is a really bad idea. Either make the successful ones yield ridiculously better rewards than the standard, well understood/easier to complete ones, or better yet, give rewards equal to time invested, so people don't just abandon these new trials.
Creating instances where a civilian, buffed or otherwise, can not only kill a pimped out incarnate, but do so in one or two shots no less, is a really bad idea. It's bad enough these trials sometimes turn into episodes of incarnates ER, but whats next, praetorian senior citizens beating the crap out of us with their walkers?
Continually making things more difficult for melee characters vs ranged is a really bad idea. I've noticed for quite some time that the devs have certain preferences, but try to remember a lot of your players enjoy playing melee even if you don't. If you're going to continually introduce new instances where melee is faced with extreme disadvantages, how about the reverse every once in a while?
Overall the devs do a great job and usually do listen to us and take our opinions into account though, imo. I just wish they would react a bit quicker.
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It means you have to pay more attention to party makeup in fulfilling certain roles - something this game has rightly avoided as much as possible in the past.
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Originally Posted by Issen
While I can understand your frustation given your character types, that not a fault of the Trial. I've learned very quickly that a TPN is a very blitzkreg-style Trial. You have to move fast. You also learn that you need to assign roles. For example, your controller or your brute would be perfect for the indoor portions. It just means you have to be more organized as to the division of roles.
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The shunning of the new trials has already started on Triumph.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The general populace will do exactly what they do now with the Keyes (though this is now getting run thanks to the changes on November 10) & Underground Trials: Players will avoid the new trials because they aren't worth the hassle. Players are STILL avoiding the Underground on Triumph and I don't see that changing.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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This.|
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
I ran the TPN trial for the first time today. I have to say it was awesome.
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2-for-2 on successful runs last night on Pinnacle. The second one (which was smoother since we had figured out the winning strategy) was 30 minutes flat. I have a hard time believing that people will be shunning a 30 minute trial that guarantees them 60+ Incarnate Threads and at least 1 Empyrean Merit every time they run it. They just need a chance for the strategies to become widely known.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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There is zero interest in the new trials. I did it, successfully, on beta and I have no interest in the TPN. It is NOT fun, it can be failed by a few people not paying attention, and I don't want to spend most of my night micro-managing how the team is made up.
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Originally Posted by Winterminal
This.
2-for-2 on successful runs last night on Pinnacle. The second one (which was smoother since we had figured out the winning strategy) was 30 minutes flat. I have a hard time believing that people will be shunning a 30 minute trial that guarantees them 60+ Incarnate Threads and at least 1 Empyrean Merit every time they run it. They just need a chance for the strategies to become widely known. |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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I know I'll regret revealing this since it means some kind of nerf-like change will be implemented, but it will get out eventually anyway: |
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
There is zero interest in the new trials. I did it, successfully, on beta and I have no interest in the TPN. It is NOT fun, it can be failed by a few people not paying attention, and I don't want to spend most of my night micro-managing how the team is made up.
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Pay no attention to the outside. When in any particular building, the entire league blitzes to the central room. Quickly dispatch the IDF attacking H.D. Taunters (Tanks, Brutes, and even Scrappers) pull all the IDF away from the terminals towards the center of the room. Once pulled, the technicians are vulnerable. The rest of the league simply has the task of killing anything in the center of the room, with 3-5 people circling the perimeter killing the technicians. Once you get teleported outside, the league heads to the next building (they follow a repeating sequential pattern east to west). Rince and repeat. A league can move at a swift enough speed to build and maintain Public Opinion long enough to complete each stage.
Other than that, everyone just needs to know that
1. Cameras are not to be touched
2. There is no AoE Damage attacks outside except for the direct confrontations with Maelstrom
3. If you end up with crosshairs above your head, get away from Maelstrom.
No, the above strategy does not allow for the "Fair and Balanced" badge, so those going for Master Of.. runs will have to figure something else out. But for those who just want to grind for Empyrean Merits, that is a simple strategy that encompasses 75% of the trial.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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Then the TPN isn't the trial for you, you should probably do MoM in it's place.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
There is zero interest in the new trials. I did it, successfully, on beta and I have no interest in the TPN. It is NOT fun, it can be failed by a few people not paying attention, and I don't want to spend most of my night micro-managing how the team is made up.
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The TPN forces people to have to think about party design and distribution of ATs, which isn't a bad thing, even if it's something that CoX flatly ignores through the 1-49 portions. Having to make players actually have to stop and think about what they're doing won't hurt, unless you're in a huge rush.
Luckily, the solo Dark Astoria content will offer an alternative to the Trials.
I ran a MoM and a TPN both last night with a PUG, and after a shaky start to the TPN we were succesful both times...the key seems to be having a leader who can give clear directions, and assign players to specific roles....for example: making sure that only Single Target attacks, and no damage auras were used in the outside portion. He gave us a macro for targetting ONLY the Telepathists, which helped a lot for preventing dead civilians. While it was certainly an interesting Trial, having done it once I'm not likely to want to do it again, at least not on the same character...so far as I'm concerned the ONLY reason for doing it is to earn the badges.
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I have problems with the other trial too. The problem is that if not enough people are going to run it, they'll come up with yet another scheme to punish players for not doing the content they like. We've already seen what will happen: they will downgrade rewards on "popular" trials in hopes to make the hated trials attractive.|
Originally Posted by Issen
Then the TPN isn't the trial for you, you should probably do MoM in it's place.
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Originally Posted by Issen
The TPN forces people to have to think about party design and distribution of ATs, which isn't a bad thing, even if it's something that CoX flatly ignores through the 1-49 portions. Having to make players actually have to stop and think about what they're doing won't hurt, unless you're in a huge rush.
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Originally Posted by Issen
Luckily, the solo Dark Astoria content will offer an alternative to the Trials.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
On Virtue, the new trials are actually quite popular from what I've seen.
I've got TPN down to a farm now. For me, it is the new BAF. Master of Badge, got. MoM is a farm too.
But I've come from EQ2, an MMO where tactics and group make up are everything. And I like content like this. A set challenge. A chance to exceed it. Actual hard portions on both trials. Or at least more interesting ones.
If you guys are having trouble, I've got guides on the guide section of the forum.
And when we form, we don't ever need to say we need x. We just assign people to their strengths. 5 scrappers outside on telepaths. 1 strong group on Mael with some good survivability and the rest of the brutes/tankers/AoE dps inside, with any stalkers we got assassinating technicians. Just play teams to their strengths and you can easily win with the Mo.
How many times have things not been in the patch notes? A whole lot from what I can remember.
Has anything changed? Probably not, but...maybe they just aren't in the patch notes for whatever reason. I try to give people the benefit of doubt.
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