Discussion: Issue 21 Special Update: Media Blitz - December 6, 2011 [Live] - Build 2160.201111172202

Right now, the groups I've played with on Triumph for the last few weeks seem to be inclined to let at least 10/20 prisoners on BAF escape, with one of the three I did this afternoon failing because they let too many escape. Even in the early days of Issue 20, I've never seen this level of play. Another thing is I'm seeing leagues with 1/3 the group not having any level shifts (including the 2 MoM's I've been on). Against BAF, that is "okay" as you are facing level 54s. Against TPN/MoM, that is level 54+2, which means you aren't doing as much vs the AVs and they are going to hit the players harder.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Ever tried the awakened in first ward? Their bosses have defence against ranged attacks, forcing ranged to get into melee, so they can suffer just the same. It is not fun.

Over the weekend we organized a number of these "ignore the outside" TPN runs. Once most people got the hang of the buildings and how the technicians worked we managed several repeats of getting all the badges except the Fair & Balanced telepath badge. I would say that as long as a majority of the league is made up of 50+3 characters then there's no real requirement to have any super-specific ATs/Powersets for a successful completion other than the typical good mix of offense and support.

I would agree that if anything eventually gets "nerfed" about this trial it's going to be our current ability to completely ignore being outside for a majority of the trial. Clearly the Devs intended to try to make this trial "hard" by encouraging us to split up our leagues into sub-teams. But unfortunately for that design concept this trial doesn't really need us to do that. If the Devs really wanted to make their idea stick they should have required (and may yet require via a change) some kind of activity that must be done both inside and outside -simultaneously- in order to complete the trial. This will probably have to be linked to a nerfing of Maelstrom's annoying ability to one-shot almost any semi-squishy type of character.

It'll be interesting to see whether the Devs decide that the "ignore the outside" strategy is too much of an exploit to be allowed to continue. *shrugs*

After, reluctantly, doing a TPN on the live servers (I only joined because I knew the group doing it) I have the following to add to the above list:

• Lack of way points for the buildings, despite multiple feedback requests for them.
• unclear as to the which doorways a player can use. (people were trying, unsuccessfully, to go in the back doors).
• Pointless hallway running.
• Broken rewards (the game said it was dropping threads, yet I didn't get any).
• There is no way in hell that a PUG group will be able to pick up this trial without reading a guide. The "?" text is absolute crap.
• Blitz or fail attitude of the trial will promote people to exclude those that aren't able to keep up.
• This trial gives Incarnate XP, yet with the level shifted AV the last thing you want to bring is an unshifted character.
• Blitz-crashing. The league I was with crashed just at the last AV fight and had all our characters rolled back to before the trial.

Even though we were going to be successful, I don't think what we did qualified as "fun".

• Repetitive? Yes.
• Confusing without a guide? Absolutely.
• Worth setting up on a regular basis? Get real.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Yeah, but Zwillinger isn't teaming with the groups I've been teaming with recently. Also I suspect that the groups he's been with have the majority having a couple level shifts (if not +3). With the groups that I've seen in the last week a character having +3 is in the minority.

Did I say that people NEED to be +3 for the trials? No, so take your hyperbole somewhere else. Facing a level 54+2 AV means you are not contributing much, if anything to the battle.

Combat: Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage are all affected by the "purple patch".

+4 level modifier: All Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage suffers a 0.48 multiplier. An additional +2 level modifier means: All Debuff strength, Mez duration, Knockback magnitude, and Damage suffers a 0.15 multiplier. With a base tohit chance modifier for a +4 Critter has a 0.39 multiplier, +6 means it has a 0.20 multiplier.

Because we're talking about level 54 AVs, a further 87% decrease in effectiveness is applied.

Let's see how that applies to Maelstrom if a Rad Defender uses an optimally enhanced Radiation Infection. Optimally Radiation Infection applies a -61% Defense penalty to the target. An optimally slotted Radiation Infection from a level 50 vs a level 54+2 AV is -1.1895%.

-61*0.15 = -9.15% * (1 - 0.87)= -1.1895%

A single insight inspiration gives a +7.5% bonus tohit.

Lingering Radiation Regen debuff: Optimally 500% debuff.

500%*0.15 = 75% * 0.13 = 9.75%

All this means is that unless the characters are heavily IO'd, you aren't doing enough to compensate for the AV level shift.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Given that Titan weapons aren't even mentioned in the original post, this isn't the thread that announced the weapons, and that Titan Weapons are 800 points, I don't think your post qualifies as being "slightly off topic".

Perhaps you were looking for this thread instead:
Discussion: Featured Items at the Paragon Market - 12/06/11

You know, where they announce not only the power set you are complaining about, but its price as well.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Your math is fine...except it only counts a single person using a single debuff. And you're not counting in the people who might have Incarnate powers that aren't level-shift (T2s and T1s). When you have an entire league of people slinging attacks and buffs/debuffs, it adds up really quick.

Again, I'd much rather have a Level 50 unshifted with SOs who knows what they're doing and can follow instructions over a 50+3 with a perfect build who can't do jack.

And again, people like Trilby already have the trials down to science so that level unshifted folks can participate and contribute. Which is what happens every-time a new trial comes out. Takes about a week or so for folks to get the routines down, and then it's not hard at all.

I'm not using hyperbole over the level-shift thing. I will call BS on anyone insisting you need/should be level-shifted to contribute to the new trials. Because it's true.

With the UGT, TPN, and MoM, a single player not paying attention at the right moment, being too impatient to listen, or intentionally griefing can fail the trial.

The Incarnate powers that don't include level shifts are still affected by the same math. All powers are still only 0.0195% of their effectiveness for a level 50 whether they are regular or incarnate powers.

There are more of the latter than you'll admit to. On a lower population server groups will have to accept them, if only to get enough to start the trials.

Yeah, right. If that were the case I wouldn't be seeing, 8 months after release, 10-15+ prisoners escaping in BAFs (including at least one failure due to escapes).

Claiming I said that only +3s are needed to succeed the trials is hyperbole.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

Actually, you're wrong. A 6 level difference means a lot. It's not just 50% more than a 4 level difference.

Of course, that's not ever the real choice you would be given.

I disagree, but you're welcome to your opinion.

unfortunately it's not the way the game scales. a 6 level difference is about 200% harder than a level 4 difference. It's how the game scales. The numbers support it. That said, it is still possible for an unshifted group to complete the trial, just much more difficult, requires the right builds, requires most of the team to be IO'd and there is almost no margin for error.

That said, it IS possible, just that much more difficult.