So I got a PM from Synapse about buffing Tankers

Pretty much the only thing I can think of Tanks needing is more of a reason to have two (or more) tanks on a team. And really, it's helpful to have more than one Tank on a Trial with multiple teams and mobs going (I'm always thankful for more than one Tank when I'm on a trial with a non-Tank character). Still on a solo team, it's not always optimal to get another. It'd be nice if Bruising could stack or partially stack from more than one other character, which could help slightly with this. Even then, the biggest issue is players trying to min max far more than they need to.

About the only other thing I could think of that would be helpful for game balance is different defense caps for ATs, but Castle came out and said that this should have been done back in I7, but it was "too late now" (he said that a little over a year or so ago). The implication with that is the defense cap had been 45% for everyone for too long and the upset would probably be too much to remove that, or so I took it.

Castle may not be here anymore, but I highly doubt Synapse and co., would have a different opinion on this. I can see all the gnashing of teeth that would occur, even if the change was accompanied by new 50+ mobs not having higher accuracy than other mobs (and that's the other reason they really should have made the change... I don't think the higher accuracy would be around if it weren't for the def cap issue).

I suppose another thing would be for the devs to stop breaking out unresistable damage. It's okay for small, unique things like the "patch of doom" in the Apex TF, but most of the trials feature this too prominently. It'd be nice if the Trial design at least acknowledged that some ATs are meant to have some kind of resistance. Heck, even if it were part resistance, I'd be much more happy about those design mechanics. It's too much like mez in this game, where it either affects you or it doesn't. Rather than trying to get around the design of the rest of the game, it'd be nice if the devs let the players keep designing around what their powers can do. If we can resist or defend too much, that's more of an issue than doing this "unresistable/undodgeable" stuff.

*added*

Johnny, while I enjoy Brutes and Scrappers, they're not as survivable as Tankers. I have an Invuln Tanker and Scrapper, both at the def cap, and the Scrapper can get in over his head far more easily than the Tanker can. You're rather apt to make the disparity smaller than it is. Not to mention all the "you hardly see tanks" comments, which you have been writing for years and have never been true, anecdotally or statistically.

[offtopic] Then there is Carrion Creepers from plant control that is arguably one of the best herding powers in the game because of all the respawning pets, herding the entire ITF roofs just with carrion creepers is childs play [/offtopic]

Regarding damage, an idea popped into my head that could make Tankers be different then the other melee ATs, have higher damage, and give some interesting mechanics.

I thought about when you build a Brute or a Scrapper defensively, you always try and take as many defensive (The actual defense, not resist) powers as possible (CJ, Hover, Maneuvers, etc). You also build your IO's around this method.

What if Tankers got an ability that really makes them out to be the "powerful" comic book heroes they are suppose to be? I mean their initial attack hits so hard it causes the target to bruise.

Here is how it would work:

Every attack power the Tanker uses invokes a cooldown to that specific power. When its not on cooldown, that power hits for (Tossing out a number, this could change) *TWICE* the *BASE* damage.

Upon hitting for that, that power gets a cooldown in addition to its normal cooldown time. If the power is used again, it hits for .8 (Tanker modifier) damage until the bonus damage is off of cooldown.

Since each individual power has its own cooldown, this encourages the Tanker to take lots of attacks and potentially slot them. Thus, on one hand, a tanker could come up with some interesting builds that could sacrifice some defensive abilities for damage by taking more attacks.

Here's some examples of how it could work (I am using numbers to illustrate the point but these aren't set in stone)

A Super Strength Tanker has 4 attacks:

Jab, Punch, Haymaker, KO Blow. -- For simplicity lets say they do, 25, 50, 75, and 100 damage unslotted.

The Tanker Jabs the target for 25+25 bonus damage, Jab has a 4 second cooldown lets say. The bonus damage goes on cooldown for 15 seconds.

He punches the target doing 50 + 50, it has a 8 second cooldown plus 20 second cooldown bonus damage.

He jabs the target again for 25 damage (No bonus) still 10 seconds left on bonus damage cooldown for this power.

He KO Blows the target, 100 + 100 bonus damage, 25 second cooldown, and a 35 second bonus damage.

The Tanker then gets 100% damage buff, and Haymakers a target for 75 + 75 Bonus damage + 150 from the damage buff, Haymaker goes on a 12 second cooldown with a 18 second bonus damage cooldown.

The bonus damage cooldowns are uneffected by recharge modifiers hence it encourages to take a lot of different attacks.

I think I might be inclined to reduce the cap on defence resistance for stalkers and scrappers, and possibly for brutes as well, while giving some ATs a default starting base level of it. Tankers, obviously, should get most.

This and the addition of a few mobs who exploit such things could make tankers a lot more relevant, at least in new content.

I'd also love to see those quartz emanators change such that instead of a massive tohitbuff to the DE, they mcaused a massive defence debuff... but that's me.

Might be fun to test anyway.

Perhaps an increase in Tanker aggro cap, and number of targets affected by the tank's AoE damage, based on team size.

Every argument seems to always point to the tank doing more damage.. that simply is not going to happen.

Right, but the characters people usually refer to as "classic comic book tanks" tend to be massively more powerful than other characters. Superman of course is the worst offender here. But that doesn't mean a faithful translation would make tanks more powerful; a faithful translation would just make Superman much higher level than the rest of the heroes. Comic books, after all, have no need for a level cap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane You mean 500%. The current cap is technically 400%. Yes, I know people ignore that the first 100% is base. The second 100% is usually taken up by Enhancements, for that matter.

If you're going to pick nits, you should note that he wrote a + sign. 400% damage is +300%, and 500% damage is +400%. As evidenced in-game by the damage bonus stat in combat attributes turning light blue when it reaches 300%.

I've held off on posting in this thread because I'm honestly unsure if anything needs to happen to buff Tankers.

However, if there were going to be a buff to Tankers, I think that the discussion needs to start at the very base levels: what separates a Tanker from a Scrapper or a Brute, and what is the intended separation between a Tanker and a Scrapper or a Brute.

Without a full understanding of those two items, I think that any proposed changes are just shots in the dark, and have little chance of being implemented.

I also don't think that's it's necessarily a good idea to get buffs that a majority of Tankers won't notice. For instance, the damage cap increase: if you're not a /SS Tanker, or constantly on a team with a Kin, you're probably not bumping up against the current limit, and so an increase in the top amount won't affect you.

So what then, do we do? We want to understand what both the Devs and Players think that the role of Tankers should be, and how they differ in both current implementation and desired implementation by both of those group. Without that understanding, this will go the same way the last several dozen threads like this went.

I really cant see additional damage happening either Aett, but I won't argue with it for its for a Dev to decide.