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What about those people who choose to build their Tankers for high dps attack chains which can put out some impressive numbers? Not every Tanker can do it, but neither can every Brute build to the soft cap for all values or easily match those values of a Tanker either. |
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
So while Tanks have it easier when building defenses, people willing to spare no expense to make an IOed character really have no logic building a Tanker other than concept. That type of person includes me |
Even if we decided to completely ignor that fact (which some have apparently), then the answer to the question is to simply make Tankers do more damage because some people heavily invest in defense IO builds?
I'd say that instead of simply having more damage, Tankers should provide a different play experience than Brutes that provides a unique* mechanic on teams (*a mechanic others may be able to do, but done in a way that is unique to the Tanker experience).
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May I ask what mechanic you have in mind ? I certainly have imagination and I can see the reasoning of not wanting Tankers to be interchangeable with Brutes by playing the same.
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Originally Posted by Tannim222
What about those people who choose to build their Tankers for high dps attack chains which can put out some impressive numbers? Not every Tanker can do it, but neither can every Brute build to the soft cap for all values or easily match those values of a Tanker either.
Even if we decided to completely ignor that fact (which some have apparently), then the answer to the question is to simply make Tankers do more damage because some people heavily invest in defense IO builds? I'd say that instead of simply having more damage, Tankers should provide a different play experience than Brutes that provides a unique* mechanic on teams (*a mechanic others may be able to do, but done in a way that is unique to the Tanker experience). |
I've had a few ideas, but some started to become too cumbersom and are probably best left to discusson after more eloquent attempts are reviewed further. By cumberson, I mean anything that adds new powers (clicks / toggles) to Tankers.
One of the first things that needs to be looked at is threat generation. Tankers should have this in a lock. Beyond that, I've thought that one player's post about a Tanker's secondary effects passing through guantlet - which should include Bruising - was one of the nicer ones.
Another was a variable Bruising effect. Add Bruising to all Tanker attacks, including cones and AoEs. The more targets the power affects, the less value it has and shorter duration it has. The more damage an attack has, the less Bruising it does, but the longer the effect lasts. Lower damaging attacks have a higher value, but don't last as long.
This way, lower damaging attacks soften up the target for big damage strikes, or big damage initial strikes allow lower damaging attacks to hit harder.
I'm torn in the stacking issue. I'd be inclined to say that any bruising effect from the same Tanker doesn't stack, but the aoe / cone bruising effects of multiple tankers would. However, I don't think that's viable to discriminate from single target effects.
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Yeah, a ton of people play Tankers, unlike AT with more problematic issues. Few people complained about Doms before because nobody played them, from 1-50 on my ice/psi I was usually the only one on a team. Arcana's analysis at the time showed they were the least played non-epic AT. Then they were totally revamped.|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
That's because Stalkers actually have real issues, unlike the Tanker AT.
Again, I do trials every night and I see at least 2 to 8 tankers in every league I'm in. I see maybe 1 stalker in every 3 or 4 leagues I join. |
Now Stalkers... I kinda like being the only one on iTrials most of the time, but while I'm struggling to make my main (EM/Nin) the way I want, I put together a Bane build in 10 minutes with 50% def to m/r and capped to AoE with 1 sec off permahasten with no purps, and with tons of -res, two good AoEs (Venom and Crowd Control) plus double leaderships and darkest night, seems like all I wanted in a Stalker revamp - melee focused with some debuffs like other games' Rogue classes
Tankers also benefit from building for Defense as well.
What do they give up to get that extra mitigation above their SO baseline?
Nothing, just like the Scrappers and Brutes give up nothing.
So what you have is all three ATs, with the Tanker still on top for mitigation by a large margin. You can refer to my WP example to a simplistic view of how that works.
So while Tanks have it easier when building defenses, people willing to spare no expense to make an IOed character really have no logic building a Tanker other than concept. That type of person includes me