SSA SPOILERS: He's WHO?!
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2011-11-08 10:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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And that's the way the game is built and it's never going to change.
| This is a recurring complaint of mine that dates as far back as 2005 - we're henchmen. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
I ran the villain side version and I thought it was outstanding. I got to be a real villain and do something that appears to have lasting consequence at long last. Not only that, but I got to take down a bunch of EBs I wasn't particularly prepared to fight and I had no major difficulty with it. So I felt intensely powerful and incredibly villainous. Is this was a level 40 villain is supposed to be like? Even theoretically lacking the patronage of one of Recluse's Lieutenants, I launched a nuclear weapon, beat the tar out of Manticore twice and a bunch of named also-rans and was brought in on a grand scheme with far-reaching consequences. How awesome is that?
I also loved the new base tileset and the opportunity to visit Warburg without sullying myself by entering a PVP zone.
Villains are definitely getting the better out of these missions so far. I like that. I can only guess that they're going to get stomped hard by part 7, but for right now I'm doing my diabolic laughs every time I run one of the SSA missions.
Minor quibbles: In the first mission, Dillo doesn't have an info box. He does in the third mission. Marshal Blitz on the other hand has the longest info I've ever seen on a mob, which is odd for a throwaway character whose purpose is clear in the NPC dialog. And I saw a couple misspelled words in the mission text. Nothing serious, but would it kill somebody to proofread for typos?
Things I hate: Anime. PvP. Lying MMO Developers. Outleveling content. Manga. ED. Comic Store Employees. Anime.
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I didn't even realize what it was based on until I opened the map |
Originally Posted by PunkRolex
I also loved the new base tileset
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But he isn't the former Marshal of Warburg, he's the current one, a position that is apparently formal. I'm not saying there aren't any typos here, but that wasn't one of them.|
Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Or that Blitz is the "formal" Marshal of Warburg, when they clearly meant "former."
Seriously, Devs, you expect people to pay extra for this? Make an effort! |
Sam, seriously, calling the splash screen "torture porn" is a bridge too far. You must think TV crime dramas are symposia of filth.
In my opinion, the SSAs' writing has been the best in the game even considering Praetoria and First Ward, which I also enjoyed. Unlike most games these days that try to pump up the player's ego, the CoH writers are getting a pretty good handle on how to do it without coming off as horrifically patronizing and trite. I also enjoy how the SSAs get the supposed main characters of the game, the surviving eight, actually involved in the plot in a somewhat dynamic way for the first time ever. This is the first content we have where they aren't stilted caricatures at best and glorified vending machines at worst.
Then again, I didn't expect drama worthy of the Bard going into it. I expect writing on par with a good comic book. For the first time, that's what I'm getting.
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Whatever else might be said, "dark crey lab" is infinity% better than stupid 'chain link fence and pointy stuff" Arachnos base maps.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I didn't even realize what it was based on until I opened the map
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Things I hate: Anime. PvP. Lying MMO Developers. Outleveling content. Manga. ED. Comic Store Employees. Anime.
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It's actually a standard office map, not a Crey lab map - but it's one of the most extreme reskins they've done so far.
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Originally Posted by PunkRolex
Whatever else might be said, "dark crey lab" is infinity% better than stupid 'chain link fence and pointy stuff" Arachnos base maps.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
That's just the fundamental flaw in playing villains. If you want to make your own villainous plans your only option is going to be AE. There's no way that they can make the game open ended enough to let you 'formulate' your own plans, so you're always going to be the errand boy in someone else's plan. You'll be the lynchpin in it, but otherwise you'll never really be the actual mastermind behind a plan without the devs putting words into your mouth and making you act a specific way, which we've already seen with Graves that people really despise when they try (mostly because they've shown they can't do it well XD)
Even if they did put you in the seat you wanted, people would complain "That's not how *my* character would do this plan" Or they wouldn't be satisfied with the outcome (Think the cloning facility arc).
Unless I missed something with the red side version. It felt bleh that it was suggested I could 'choose' to launch [which was a nifty scene], when I really had to launch.
Just felt odd since it felt like it was supposed to be optional.
Let's Dance!
I wonder if we might eventually need to try and stop Ms. Liberty from using Longbow to launch some kind of massive retaliation against the Rogue Isles?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I hope this isn't the only death in the SSA because as it stands.. I cared nothing for her death. Hell I never even ran across that character before outside of a footnote here or there in the lore
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It isn't - the main death is one of the Surviving 8 - the 7 members of the Freedom Phalanx and Backalley Brawler.
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Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
I hope this isn't the only death in the SSA
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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No, the devs have advertised this mega arc as having one of the Signature Heroes from the Freedom Phalanx biting the bullet, and in doing so having to rewrite some of the established order in the game (for instance, if one of the heroes that offers a Task Force dies, they have to rewrite things to take into account that that NPC will no longer be standing around to hand that TF out).|
Originally Posted by Matthew_Orlock
I hope this isn't the only death in the SSA because as it stands.. I cared nothing for her death. Hell I never even ran across that character before outside of a footnote here or there in the lore
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As it is, Miss Libery I is just for added pathos.
Though it is odd that in the aftermath they say that she was dead 20 minutes before we arrived yet we saw her getting her soul separated (or something) during the ritual.
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"Hoorb."|
Originally Posted by BenRGamer
In the villain version at least you fight the Shining Stars, would have been a great place to add some custom dialogue
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Especially since they introduced a character who had no appeared in the game prior to this, showed her for all of one mission, and then killed her pretty much as suddenly as they introduced her. I guess you can't waste a character who would have to show up in missions or hand out missions,
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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This is a little bit hard to follow in the hero arc (though it is explained), but the villain arc makes it much more clear: the ritual you see in the final mission is an illusion created by Malaise for the primary purpose of just ticking Manticore off even more. Alexis was dead before the confrontation even began.
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Originally Posted by Agent White
Though it is odd that in the aftermath they say that she was dead 20 minutes before we arrived yet we saw her getting her soul separated (or something) during the ritual.
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Ahh okay. Yah I'm still 2-3 levels away depending on the toon from being able to run this redside ;9
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
This is a little bit hard to follow in the hero arc (though it is explained), but the villain arc makes it much more clear: the ritual you see in the final mission is an illusion created by Malaise for the primary purpose of just ticking Manticore off even more. Alexis was dead before the confrontation even began.
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Of course, the other question is why the remaining Vindicators are blissfully unaware of Malaise's teaming up with who knows, given his compunctions.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Well you know, that's just like Psyche standing there in Malaise's cell going "NO I WON'T READ YOUR MIND EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW ALL THESE DETAILS AND WHO'S BEHIND THIS AND THE WHOLE PLOT, YOU TELL ME WITH YOUR MOUTH!"
Seriously, the writing is AWFUL. |
As also stated, Shalice tells us the world is like a bunch of static in her mind and she can't shut it off, so...
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Originally Posted by Shadowe
Numina, as detailed in the comics, is severely time-limited on raising the dead. Even with Manticore frantically racing, she was too late to bring Statesman back without a more recently deceased soul to piggyback.
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Overall I enjoyed the heroside version, lots of fun.
The story overall is a bit stilted, but it's still nice to go through and harkens to those old serials...
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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This it Sister Psyche were talking about. You know, the psychic who likes to dress in transparent spandex, read the minds of random teenagers nearby and then flip out at them for looking at her.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Typically, it's considered a serious ethical violation to force one's way into someone's mind and pull out whatever information one wants.
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Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
Probably my main problem with the Heroside arc (besides the fact that Paragon Studios needs a new proofreader and spellchecker, by the way my rates are very reasonable) is the setup. Marshall Blitz calls for a ceasefire for no discernible reason, and wants a specific civilian to negotiate said ceasefire on his turf under his terms? I mean there's optimism, and then there's "heroic stupidity", but that one is just....wow.
Unless there's more to it than I gathered, I don't see how anyone could possibly be stupid enough to walk into a situation like that.
A circle forms, everybody comes round
Just to hear the incredible sound
Of a genius smashing expectations
- Jonathan Coulton
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Next you'll be saying Cloud could have used Phoenix Down on Aerith.
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Originally Posted by Neuronia
Except that there are millions upon millions of these inspirations *** Kora Fruit kicking around, for 50 influence (or is it 150) that will bring anyone back from the dead err defeat. There just isn't an excuse for ANYONE to die in this game.
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Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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No, I don't know. I've barely even seen Sister Psyche. But even putting aside typical heroic qualities, in the context of the conversation it seemed clear that the villain *knew* that for whatever reason she wouldn't (or couldn't) read his mind. And she knew that he knew, hence the 'stop playing games with me' bit.|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
This it Sister Psyche were talking about. You know, the psychic who likes to dress in transparent spandex, read the minds of random teenagers nearby and then flip out at them for looking at her.
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Incidentally, does he actually vanish from the cell at the end of that conversation, or was that just an artifact of the scene fading out in improper timing for me?
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
i loved this sig arc, i actually got to feel like a real villain
i killed statesmans daughter, launched a nuke at heroes, killed those freaking annoying and kind of stupid shining stars, and then rubbed manticores face in the remains
i would give this arc a 9/10 while the previous arcs only rate about a 5 or 7
color me happy for this round, im really interested to see where this goes and who will die
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Originally Posted by GATE-keeper
Or that Blitz is the "formal" Marshal of Warburg, when they clearly meant "former."
Seriously, Devs, you expect people to pay extra for this? Make an effort! |
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
But he isn't the former Marshal of Warburg, he's the current one, a position that is apparently formal. I'm not saying there aren't any typos here, but that wasn't one of them.
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If you click on Clues and read the dossiers you are given at the beginning, Blitz' dossier says:
NAME: Marshal Jason Blitz
OCCUPATION: Formal Marshal for Isle of Warburg. Current leader of the 'Rogue Arachnos'
BACKGROUND: Marshal Blitz was once the marshal of Warburg, an island in the Rogue Isles that was infamous for its WEB system, which developed extremely powerful missile weapons. Blitz was charismatic and ambitious, thwarting every attempt by 'rogue' heroes to oust the control Arachnos had over the island.
Edit:
Also, if you target Blitz, then -> Actions -> Info -> Description, the first paragraph reads:
"Marshal Jason Blitz used to be the Arachnos Marshal for the isle of Warburg, one of the western-most Rogue Isles, and is today the de facto ruler of it. Marshal Blitz commands a contingent of Rogue Arachnos that took over Warburg and uses its rockets to threaten Paragon City."
The whole point of the story being that when he worked for Arachnos, they made him Marshal of Warburg; but (at least for purposes of this story) now he appears to have turned against Arachnos, so they probably no longer accept him as Marshal.
"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody wants to change themselves." -Tolstoy
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I wonder if Malaise has the ability to shield his mind from her probes? Could that be a possibility? Or he has some form of illusion/deception in place to hide his deepest secrets.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
You mean when they're like "Go ahead, read my mind," and she says "NO, YOU TELL ME!"
And also when lives are at stake and she chooses to be "nice" (despite getting permission) instead of delving into the plan? Yeah, I guess the Phalanx subscribes to the "evil wins because good is stupid" morality system... |
Anyway, I liked part 3 a bit more than the rest. They are not the best missions but not bad. Some of the missions just seem kinda pointless and are in place for no real reason; it didn't feel quite that way in #3.
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"*Do* it? Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."
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Originally Posted by Lazarillo
This is a little bit hard to follow in the hero arc (though it is explained), but the villain arc makes it much more clear: the ritual you see in the final mission is an illusion created by Malaise for the primary purpose of just ticking Manticore off even more. Alexis was dead before the confrontation even began.
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34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
Why do our villains constantly get roped into serving in someone's grand scheme? I know Darryn goes out of his way to say "You are an equal!" pretty much out of context, just so that I can't make that complaint. It's just the same way all the Freedom Phalanx in Maria Jenkins' missions say "This is your mission, I'm just here to help, you lead the way, I follow, you're the hero of this story, now stop whining about it on the forums, ya sissy!" But even so, it's his plan, his plot, his story. I'm just tagging along. WHY am I always tagging along with other villains?
For heroes, I get it. You want to do the right thing, other people know how you can do the right thing, you do what other people say. It makes sense. But for villains? I got a bad taste in my mouth being asked to kill Alexis (even though Tyler would offer without a second thougth, since he sees humans as vermin), but when that was done, I wanted to punch Darryn, too. I don't know if I'm playing a Chaotic Stupid character who just wants to screw over everybody of if the story just made me hate Darryn, but being all giddy to follow his plan just seems... Odd.
This is a recurring complaint of mine that dates as far back as 2005 - we're henchmen. When I say that we can still use the existing contact system and just claim that we're following our own plots, I mean for the NARRATIVE to say this. Because even though Darryn says "You're an equal..." I still followed his plan, I still followed his orders. We're equals... But it's still his plan and his story. It is, in essence, Dr. Graves all over again, minus the humiliation.
Honestly, I'm too tired to argue the same points every time, but I just feel compelled over and over again. If we're going to involve player villains in major storylines, they need to be involved as progenitors, not opportunistic side characters. You can give them all the limelight in the world, but if they're following orders, they're still second fiddle. Dean McArthur and Leonard did it right. Sure, it was railroading. Sure, I were still following contact instructions. But at the same time, both contacts were working for me and were helping me and, when push came to shove, this was still MY story. I didn't get to pick what it was, granted, but it was still ABOUT me.
Oddly enough, I wouldn't have minded if our villains were superfluous to the events in the SSAs. I got involved, I busted some heads, I made some waves, but it turns out a guy with an Easter Island head is weaving a grand tapestry. Not interested, so I turn around and leave. Yes, it would have wasted my time, but I'd still have liked it, because I'd sooner waste my time by my choice than devote it to someone else's cause.
It's 3 AM and I'm not making any sense, but here's the jist of it: I wanted an option to punch Darryn Wayde, but one didn't show up. I get why we can't kill him, but at least reminding him of the third option would have been fun.
In your very first line, you talk about the whole arc being weird, because YOUR character wants to wipe out all humans (or whatever). That is making the entire plot RP based. Is there anything wrong with that? Of course not! But how can you expect the devs to make every single bit in the game somehow 'fit' for every combination of hero/villain that players come up with??
It is a totally unrealistic desire. If your guy sold himself to the Marshall, as you say..WHY did he do that, when he wants to kill every human? Oh wait you say, I was doing that to further my villainous goals? Yet you can't further your goals helping Darrin now?
Why are vills always roped into someone else's scheme? Mmmm could it be because there is always a more powerful villain? Or, if not more powerful, one who has more contacts/skill/knowledge in whatever area?
Also..not to state the obvious, but you do realise this is an MMO? As in, multiplayer. So again, expecting every plot to revolve just around you isnt realistic. Not only that, even the IDEA that we can somehow log in and think 'Oh what shall I do today..I know..I'll go to zone X and attack mob type Y in order to annoy boss C, getting powerful weapon F into my grasp,' just is NEVER going to happen because, you guessed it..this is an MMO. Wanting, or every thinking the devs could somehow make it so we can do whatever we want, with no scripting, no limits, nothing, is just stupid. Games do not work like that. If they did, no RPG would EVER get finished, due to the amount of variables.
I agree that Dean and Leo's arcs are a bit more of a step into..'Our' Missions, but still. Who are you to say that everyone wants to fight Ajax? Maybe I wanted to join up with him and take over Sharkhead. What, I can't do that!? Oh yeah, cause it is a game, with a scripted plot!
Again..I really DO get what you are saying, and I agree with it up to a point. That point is when I remember it is an MMO and has to cater to everyone, and no RPG has the limitless options you are after.
Just play the darn game??